So I've done my reading...few more Q's

snake134

Member
well i've been browsing these forums for a while as i was planning on getting a ms6. can looks great, has awd for the michigan winters, good modability, decent interior, and has decent handling. now, the problem is that i want to keep this car for quite a while and i have continuously read threads and posts about how the reliability of these cars isn't that great if you want to keep it for long.

the clutch problem, the bogging from 2-3 shift, the 6th gear bogging, and the necessity to buy and upgraded rmm to get a decent shift. all of these things are preventing my from buying this car. i really do wanna keep it for a while and i dont wanna have to keeping fixing things and replacing things. can you guys shed some lights on this.

also here's a response i got on the mustang forums:

As a previous owner of a MS6 that i just sold a month ago, I would definately shoo you AWAY from it. It's got a load of problems, and it's plagued with all sorts of problems that Mazda has blatantly admitted "no one knows how to fix"...hence why it was dumped after only 2 years.

Just to name a few things to look for if you still insist on looking into it:

1) Engine studder - although it's the same engine the MS3 has, its tuned slightly different...which was enough to give it a hiccup that screws everyone over that has one. If you give it more then about 1/2 throttle below 4K, it'll cough like it's missing for anywhere from 1-3 seconds, totally unannounced. It's just downright dangerous if you're trying to pass a car. Check out a thread I headed up on this very problem

2)FRIGGIN CLUTCH - ok this was just RIDICULOUS. I've never felt a clutch that was this far left of center. The point at which it engages is RIGHT at the folcrum of the spring that pushes the pedal out, and makes it nearly impossible to engage properly. Let alone the fact that the take up is so high it leaves you wondering if it will ever engage. The icing on the cake would be how sensitive it is to. When you roll those 3 factors together, its a DISASTER of a clutch. Worse yet, Mazda tends to very strongly refuse any fixes on it, even though there is a TSB out for it.

3)Turbo failure - it's completely common over at *************** to read about MS6's everywhere seeing the dredded "smoke cloud in the rearview". Usually, by the time you see it...you turbo's already packed it's bags.

4)Mod Unfriendly - it's tune is extremely particular, and doesn't take nicely to lots of regular mods...such as exhaust, CAI (VERY studder prone) and turbo upgrades.

There's a good number of other small problems that follow it as well, but those are the biggies. Here's a small quote from my farewell message to the MS6 forums found here:

"I really liked the MS6 for what it was, and never got a chance to experience the AWD in the winter (ironically being one of the selling points I bought it for...). I was never one to street race or pound the car hard, and kept it all stock. I won't lie...it was a lot of fun being in boost, and feeling the hardcore acceleration down low at 3K RPMS. However, an omnipresent studder, clutch no one will fix, clicking seat, hit-or-miss auto-locking, quirky navigation and potentially deaf customer service just didn't add up to a $440 car payment. As usual in life, it always comes down to money."

I think that about says it all about the MS6. I really wanted to like the car, but no matter how hard i tried, I just couldn't. It just simply wouldn't let me.
 
In what I've seen, experienced and heard from most people, if you leave the car alone and just drive it, you won't experience many issues, but if you start trying to mod it thats when you're going to run into problems.... but then where is the fun!?!?

If your looking for a low key quick ride with a good amount of refinement and fun, then this car will make you happy. If your determined to be the next guy with 500 hp, then your best off finding something else. Theres a few guys making a good amount of power here and there, but they've worked hard for it!!

Just my opinion though
 
the only thing that you mentioned that I have experienced is the 1st-2nd gear bang. That only happens when your trying to accelerate fast . . . Even then you can avoid it if you feather the clutch enough. Under normal conditions the car drives very nicely.

The guy who wrote all that stuff about the msp6 obviosly had troubles. Im sure there is a forum with someone complaining like that on every car out there. If he hated the clutch engagement so bad he should have paid 50 bucks for a clutch adjustment and lowered the engagement point. Takes 5 minutes. If that guy was bogging every gear that means he sucks at driving manual. Its not the cars fault. As for the turbo failures. Some of the older models do have faulty seals but there is a TSB which will replace your turbo if you have warranty. Most people who experience this are modding their exhaust systems . . .

One of the things you have to realize is most people come on here to post problems / complaints.

The vast majority of people including me seem happy with their decision to own a speed 6. Its a limited edition and new car. You wont find too many with over 100K miles so its hard to say how reliable they are.

That being said if you get one (of the early 06 models) under warranty you can take it to the dealer and have the turbo / fuel pump replaced.

As far as I know this car has plenty aftermarket support. The car reacts beautifully to the mods I have put in so far.

1500 bucks into your speed 6 and it can run 12 sec 1/4 miles which is plenty fast for me :).
 
^^^^well i won't be able to get one under warrenty...and how much would all those tsb's add up to. i don't wanna shell out a lot of cash on fixes. and if i get those tsb's done will it solve all the problems such as the 1-2 shift bog?
 
ive had the car since nov and i bought it used with 25k on it and i havnt had any bog issues and i DESTROYD a mustang gt on the highway a week back i guess he didnt kno what i had ;) aka stock lol
 
Most people dont have trouble with their speeds but there are 2 notorious problems with a lot of the older 2006 models. The fuel pump (may cause stutter) and the turbo seals. And as was mentioned earlier most of these problems show their faces when people mod the exhaust / engine. I havent looked into the stock turbo's but im sure you could find one for 300-400 bucks. As for the fuel pump you could probably fix that for less. Honestly though those are rare problems. Seems like everyone on these forums have bad turbo's simply because everyone comes on here for help fixing their problems. You dont see the people with their cars running perfectly.

What year is the model you are looking at? As long as it wasn't the oldest generation 06 models than you most likely dont have to worry about this.

As for the shift. That is true. This car's clutch is hard to master. You can buy a motor mount that softens the shifting up. AWR mount costs 65 bucks and takes under an hour to install. Only reason it takes so long is because you have to jack the car up, put it on jack stands, etc. You could have a shop do it in 15 min up on a lift.
 
my car is an 06 ive had zero problems that i havent caused myself IE second gear synchro fail. Ive beat the absolute crap out of my car, it sees 18psi daily, Ive even spun out and ran over a median. The car has never skipped a beat.
 
In the time I have spent with my ms6 I have read about all of these problems and experienced none of them myself (except the occasional studder from the fuel pump). Allow me to shed a little light on the quoted complaints.

1) Engine studder- Speculation is all over the place on why this is, but most signs seem to point to the combination of the main fuel pump and cam driven fuel pump (cdfp) attached to the engine. The ms3s have a variant of this problem, but their fuel system routing and tune are a little different. It seems the reason nobody has been able to find a 100% fix to this problem is the direct injected cdfp system configuration is still kind of unfamiliar to most people. Easiest way to avoid this problem is to drive the car the way most every car is meant to be driven and roll into the throttle instead of stabbing it to the floor. Trust me, the car responds well to this and does not lose any of it's fun factor or safety.

2) Clutch- Yes, the clutch is a legitimate gripe. Mazda definitely botched this one right out of the gate, but finally got it right about half way through the first year. It can be taken care of with the TSB, or just look for a late 06 or 07 since they came from the factory with the new clutch setup. Still, even the type A clutch is perfectly drivable, it just doesn't feel like any clutch we as drivers are used to. If a fickle clutch is enough to make a car undrivable to somebody then maybe they are just destined to be paired with an automatic.

3) Turbo failure- This one is easy. There is a great thread with all the information you could ever want to know about the stock turbo on this car... and it has several posts straight from a couple of guys that work for Borg Warner, the company that manufactures the k04 turbo ( http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123728163 The guys from BW get involved about half way through the second page). Responsible modding and proper fluid selection is the best way to avoid turbo problems. If you were considering modding then the turbo solutions range from running thicker oil to a turbo rebuild like the one offered by Protege Garage all the way up through a whole new turbo (that last one gets expensive though).

4) Mod unfriendly- False... Next. No, really, When done in a balanced order this car seems to mod rather well (within reason). Fact is that as of this point this car is not likely going to be a 500hp+ monster or drag strip sweetheart. It's an AWD midsize sports sedan. It wasn't aimed at the extreme tuner market, but still has a fairly respectable aftermarket since it runs the same engine as the ms3 (which has a decent tuner following). If the tune on it is so difficult to figure out then somebody needs to hand Cobb a Nobel Peace Prize in science for cracking that puzzle and bringing us the Accessport.

What I gathered from that guys quotes sounded less like he hated the car and more that he hated the situation he found himself in with the car. Every minor flaw met with anything less than red carpet treatment seemed to be presented as the worst case scenario of how the problem could be. Sure the ms6 isn't perfect, Mazda dealers tend to be a pain in the ass, and this car simply won't put an italian super car to shame in the performance department, but does anyone expect any car to truly be perfect. For what it is (quirks, flaws and all) and what one can be purchased for I think the ms6 is a fantastic car and have no regrets in having bought mine.

About not being able to get one under warranty, how is that possible? Mine was one of the early ones and I still have the factory warranty. Only reasons it wouldn't come with a warranty is if it has unusually high mileage or if the previous owner did something to void it in which case you should turn and run away from that car. Another option would be to wait a few more months and start looking for one of the 07s that will likely be hitting the used market after their leases are up.
 
^^^^well i won't be able to get one under warrenty...and how much would all those tsb's add up to. i don't wanna shell out a lot of cash on fixes. and if i get those tsb's done will it solve all the problems such as the 1-2 shift bog?

Sorry, forgot to address this one somewhere in the above novel. The TSB smooths out the clutch feel and some of the jolts caused by not catching the engagement point at exactly the right time. Engine bogging is all a matter of shifting at the right rpms and every car has a point that works best for it. The engine thumping during shifting is eliminated with the rear mm which is a problem in almost every somewhat performance oriented car with a transverse mounted engine, even my GTP was plagued with it when I'd get on the throttle. Stock rubber mounts are meant to be the buffer between an internal combustion engine and somebody who wants to be completely oblivious to the fact that they have thousands of tiny explosions a minute happening just inches from their legs. Smart money is on a urethane mount regardless of what kind of car you're in. Vibrations increase with density of the mount, but most of the ones available don't seem to transmit many into the passenger compartment.
 
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^^^^well i won't be able to get one under warrenty...and how much would all those tsb's add up to. i don't wanna shell out a lot of cash on fixes. and if i get those tsb's done will it solve all the problems such as the 1-2 shift bog?

Actually you can find one with a warranty. I bought mine in Nov. and still has the waranty. You can find them with low miles and factory warranty. Just look in your local Mazda dealer. They can also search for one, that's how I got mine. My dealer has a red one right now.
 
Like others have said, just like any car if you leave this one alone it will be ok. Civic's are very reliable right, then why the heck do they keep breaking down after all the mods are put on? It's gonna happen with every car.

As for the clutch, alot of people don't like it but I do. Yes it's a tough clutch to learn how to drive but it's very similar to my friends Porsche 911 and other high end sports cars. Actually the 911 is even harder to engage especially in 1st. But these clutches make shifting fast so much quicker and fun.

Just my opinion
 
the guy on the other forum said:
.hence why it was dumped after only 2 years.

LOL. what a line of BS. that's mazdas strategy with Mazdaspeed vehicles. look at the protege, miata, and the 6. all came in at the last two years of production before a TOTAL redesign of the car. the MS3 may be different because its been more of a direct hit on the market. but still, i doubt it will be out the first year.

ugh.

and as stated, they released a fix/tsb for the clutch a while back. i had it done, much improved. plus if you still don't like it, follow the how to on adjusting it. i actually almost didnt get the clutch fix because i was fine after i adjusted it.
 
buy an extended warranty and your covered. i drive an 02 spec v, and it's probably one of the most unpredictable cars on the market(i wouldn't recommend anyone buy a car with a 2.5l engine from nissan). the reason I say this is because I've met people whose had several issues for years with this car. I've met people whose received 3+ engines from nissan as an example.

I bought the car with $36k miles in 0ct/05, and It's been great for me and hasn't been any of those bad ones(it's still stock and has stock header), but the only problem I've had is fuel pumps. My car has had 4 fuel pumps, and it has 91k miles on it. also, you don't have to get an extended warranty through mazda because I have one through cost guard(highly recommend), and they pay for diagnostic fee, rental, and everything up front, such as they dont reinburse me moeny. there are a lot of extended warranty companies that make's u pay for something, but I've never paid for anything on my car. they paid for new head gasket, a/c/heater unit, 3 fuel pumps, steering column, steering pump, new cv boots, 3 engine mounts, flywheel, and my car is at nissan right now getting a new sunroof motor, and im driving an 09 toyota corolla as a rental right now. there were some other things that they paid for too, but all the parts that I listed were all over $1000 outside of the motor mounts($545) and flywheel($370ish I think, but not sure).

Therefore, I say, if you like the car, get it, get a good extended warranty, and enjoy the car. Most car's will have something go bad with it and need to be replaced after $50k miles, and if your buying a used ms6, then you will fall into that category, and therefore, you would be using the extended warranty for something in the long run considering the suspension and turbo. plus, most extended warranties will put you near/over 100k miles, such as mine expires at 106k miles or 5 years, and i paid $2580 for mine and have no regrets of spending that much for it. just my 2 cents to this thread. my vote, get one, get good extended warranty, and enjoy the car
 
You know most people complain so much about vehicles, every make has a good design and a bad one. Some people get the tuesday made car while others get the monday and friday made car. I've had buddy's with Evos have issues as with STI so not every car is perfect. The MS6 has some issues some that can be worked out. Now also the car could be made to compete with these two other vehicles its all about how much is it worth to you to compete against them? I would love to get one just gotta start saving wanna have low payments. So good luck to anyone who gets one. (I envy you)
 
^^^^well i won't be able to get one under warrenty...and how much would all those tsb's add up to. i don't wanna shell out a lot of cash on fixes. and if i get those tsb's done will it solve all the problems such as the 1-2 shift bog?

You don't need to find one under warranty to get this fixed. It was a recall not a warranty issue. Any car you buy, your gonna end up putting some money into no matter you get. There is also plenty of people on this forum with 50k+++ miles with little to no problems. I'm actually hoping to break some s*** that way I know I'm really driving! Every time it Snows I have 1 parking lot in particular that I spend at least an hour drifting. (and laughing)

http://www.mzspd6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123731299

http://www.mzspd6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123728668

The MS6 Is a Beast. This car takes everything I throw at it. This is a tough car. Not STI tough but tough none the less.
I guess my point is if you really like the car, buy It!! I think I speak for everyone on this forum when I say you wont regret it! plus at the price point your getting a whole lot of car.
 
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You know most people complain so much about vehicles, every make has a good design and a bad one. Some people get the tuesday made car while others get the monday and friday made car. I've had buddy's with Evos have issues as with STI so not every car is perfect. The MS6 has some issues some that can be worked out. Now also the car could be made to compete with these two other vehicles its all about how much is it worth to you to compete against them? I would love to get one just gotta start saving wanna have low payments. So good luck to anyone who gets one. (I envy you)

Thank you for the envy. lol!
 
^^^^well i won't be able to get one under warrenty...and how much would all those tsb's add up to. i don't wanna shell out a lot of cash on fixes. and if i get those tsb's done will it solve all the problems such as the 1-2 shift bog?

you should be able to get an extended warranty. most companies cut most plans off at 50k miles and 3 years old cars, and the mazda dealer I was at, had a mazda extended warrant plan up to 80k miles on a ms6 that had 35k miles on it.
 
In the time I have spent with my ms6 I have read about all of these problems and experienced none of them myself (except the occasional studder from the fuel pump). Allow me to shed a little light on the quoted complaints.

1) Engine studder- Speculation is all over the place on why this is, but most signs seem to point to the combination of the main fuel pump and cam driven fuel pump (cdfp) attached to the engine. The ms3s have a variant of this problem, but their fuel system routing and tune are a little different. It seems the reason nobody has been able to find a 100% fix to this problem is the direct injected cdfp system configuration is still kind of unfamiliar to most people. Easiest way to avoid this problem is to drive the car the way most every car is meant to be driven and roll into the throttle instead of stabbing it to the floor. Trust me, the car responds well to this and does not lose any of it's fun factor or safety.

2) Clutch- Yes, the clutch is a legitimate gripe. Mazda definitely botched this one right out of the gate, but finally got it right about half way through the first year. It can be taken care of with the TSB, or just look for a late 06 or 07 since they came from the factory with the new clutch setup. Still, even the type A clutch is perfectly drivable, it just doesn't feel like any clutch we as drivers are used to. If a fickle clutch is enough to make a car undrivable to somebody then maybe they are just destined to be paired with an automatic.

3) Turbo failure- This one is easy. There is a great thread with all the information you could ever want to know about the stock turbo on this car... and it has several posts straight from a couple of guys that work for Borg Warner, the company that manufactures the k04 turbo ( http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123728163 The guys from BW get involved about half way through the second page). Responsible modding and proper fluid selection is the best way to avoid turbo problems. If you were considering modding then the turbo solutions range from running thicker oil to a turbo rebuild like the one offered by Protege Garage all the way up through a whole new turbo (that last one gets expensive though).

4) Mod unfriendly- False... Next. No, really, When done in a balanced order this car seems to mod rather well (within reason). Fact is that as of this point this car is not likely going to be a 500hp+ monster or drag strip sweetheart. It's an AWD midsize sports sedan. It wasn't aimed at the extreme tuner market, but still has a fairly respectable aftermarket since it runs the same engine as the ms3 (which has a decent tuner following). If the tune on it is so difficult to figure out then somebody needs to hand Cobb a Nobel Peace Prize in science for cracking that puzzle and bringing us the Accessport.

What I gathered from that guys quotes sounded less like he hated the car and more that he hated the situation he found himself in with the car. Every minor flaw met with anything less than red carpet treatment seemed to be presented as the worst case scenario of how the problem could be. Sure the ms6 isn't perfect, Mazda dealers tend to be a pain in the ass, and this car simply won't put an italian super car to shame in the performance department, but does anyone expect any car to truly be perfect. For what it is (quirks, flaws and all) and what one can be purchased for I think the ms6 is a fantastic car and have no regrets in having bought mine.

About not being able to get one under warranty, how is that possible? Mine was one of the early ones and I still have the factory warranty. Only reasons it wouldn't come with a warranty is if it has unusually high mileage or if the previous owner did something to void it in which case you should turn and run away from that car. Another option would be to wait a few more months and start looking for one of the 07s that will likely be hitting the used market after their leases are up.

Sorry, forgot to address this one somewhere in the above novel. The TSB smooths out the clutch feel and some of the jolts caused by not catching the engagement point at exactly the right time. Engine bogging is all a matter of shifting at the right rpms and every car has a point that works best for it. The engine thumping during shifting is eliminated with the rear mm which is a problem in almost every somewhat performance oriented car with a transverse mounted engine, even my GTP was plagued with it when I'd get on the throttle. Stock rubber mounts are meant to be the buffer between an internal combustion engine and somebody who wants to be completely oblivious to the fact that they have thousands of tiny explosions a minute happening just inches from their legs. Smart money is on a urethane mount regardless of what kind of car you're in. Vibrations increase with density of the mount, but most of the ones available don't seem to transmit many into the passenger compartment.

alright thanks man, lots of information i got from those posts...and for the record i do believe the car is very mod friendly. the model year i am looking at is an 06....i'll see if i can get a VIN # anytime soon to see if it's a late model but it only has around 18k miles on it. again, my main reason was if mazda would do these tsb's if i had a car that wasn't under warrenty and i guess that was answered...well that's all for now. hopefully, i'll get a test drive in this weekend and have a few more Q's before i *crosses fingers* buy the car(band)
 
No problem. I know this link is floating around all over the place, but this TSB list links to all the official TSB documents and the clutch one has the vin# range and dates the factory changed clutch components for production. You can just check the tag on the driver side B-pillar against that information to see if the one you're looking at is at risk or not. Also check for any dealer service/modification tags by the hinge for the drivers door to see if anything else was taken care of or changed. They don't always put them there (like they're supposed to), but it never hurts to check. Good luck and let us know if you have any more questions.
 
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