FS-DE Oil System

MP3racer said:
Yes, I have seen an AWR pan (or one of their versions). It has a baffle plate below the main bearing caps to prevent oil splash but does not have any box with trap doors around the oil pick-up to prevent it from getting uncovered. Again, may be good enough for street????
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Ok I follow that. Another reason I am interested in your pan :) Got any pics of one or is it 'top secret' I'm not shooting for monstrous power with my built but I'd like 300 whp with a very reliable motor. Because of this I could justify spending more and a better oil pan. I assume yours also is higher capacity?

You can run a cooler infront of the radiator but if your car is turbo'd you may already have a FMIC, radiator, and power steering cooler out front (besides an A/C condensor if you have that too). The "competition" for the cooling airstream starts to get strained and all suffer.

Also, running the cooler out front creates some long hoses to plumb it in.

Not saying that is not the way to go for you. Just pointing out some issues you may want to consider....

Welcome to the problems we had in designing the race car!
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Yeah those are exactly the things I am trying to work around - especially the long lines. I don't need anymore lines running around the engine bay! I'm going to start looking into water cooling as I have the provision for a water outlet but the return is something I'd have to figure out. I'm trying to find how the MSP's stock system works but I can't really find any information on the cooler at all. That would definitely be easier and something I could simply mount to the firewall.
 
I am intersted as well and would like to know about the kit as well if you where to mass produce it. As I posted before I have I think the only upgradedOil pumpon the forum. But the rest of the kit i would be interested in.

Under what type of demands on the motor do you see a drop in oil pressure? Regular driving or extended high RPM use? I don't have an oil pressure gauge on my car.
 
avarela86 said:
I am intersted as well and would like to know about the kit as well if you where to mass produce it. As I posted before I have I think the only upgradedOil pumpon the forum. But the rest of the kit i would be interested in.

Under what type of demands on the motor do you see a drop in oil pressure? Regular driving or extended high RPM use? I don't have an oil pressure gauge on my car.
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Yes, we have a few sets of the same gears as you link to. As far as I know they were not made to increase the oil pump volume or pressure. They were made because the World Challenge teams were experiencing engine failure due to the oil pump gear breaking and then of course no oil pressure. They are made from a much better alloy than the factory oil pump gear. Again, very nice part for what it was designed for.....


As for the oil pressure drop, we have seen it with the extended high RPM use because that is the only thing the race car does! We have not done any testing on street cars or "street" motors so I can't say if the pressure drop is seen there as well.
 
supa saiyan pr5 said:
I also have these gears from MAM in my oil pump and the oil light is coming on at anything below 2800 rpm...im definately going with the upgraded oil pump...I dont plan on killing a second motor..especially since it only has 2800 miles
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so you're still in the game????????????????????????????????????????????????(cool)
 
So here is the million dollar question Doc,


I have a protege5 and got an AWR pan when I dropped a new motor in. I autocross (in a parking lots) and wonder if the process of run, sit, run, sit, run, and sit would be ok without experiencing the oil pressure drops? The reason I ask, as your conditions are very different. I just got the engine replaced, and afraid to autocross if I am going to blow another engine. I also do not have a load of cash to have the oil pump changed and a fitting welded to the MBSP. If it was not for this, I would jump on this like white on rice. I mean, it is just not possible to do this without taking the engine out or dropping the tranny? I have changed the timing belt and taking the oil pan off should not be an issue. It it is possible then there is just the MBSP getting a tap welded on it. Could take a picture of that part of the engine with an area circled to show us the novices the best location on the MBSP? Also is this something you could take to a shop and get welded without too much labor or does the engine have to be taken apart? Also, I may be confused, but is this sandwich plate go between the engine and the oil filter, or is this between the engine and oil pan?

Is there anyone that has a oil pressure gauge that could verfy the psi in a similar conditions as a autocross event?
 
Magus said:
So here is the million dollar question Doc,


I have a protege5 and got an AWR pan when I dropped a new motor in. I autocross (in a parking lots) and wonder if the process of run, sit, run, sit, run, and sit would be ok without experiencing the oil pressure drops? The reason I ask, as your conditions are very different. I just got the engine replaced, and afraid to autocross if I am going to blow another engine. I also do not have a load of cash to have the oil pump changed and a fitting welded to the MBSP. If it was not for this, I would jump on this like white on rice. I mean, it is just not possible to do this without taking the engine out or dropping the tranny? I have changed the timing belt and taking the oil pan off should not be an issue. It it is possible then there is just the MBSP getting a tap welded on it. Could take a picture of that part of the engine with an area circled to show us the novices the best location on the MBSP? Also is this something you could take to a shop and get welded without too much labor or does the engine have to be taken apart? Also, I may be confused, but is this sandwich plate go between the engine and the oil filter, or is this between the engine and oil pan?

Is there anyone that has a oil pressure gauge that could verfy the psi in a similar conditions as a autocross event?
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I'm sorry...I wish I could shed more light on your situation but we have never tested in those particular conditions.....

Have you had engine failure problems in the past under these conitions??

If so, do you know what the general cause of the failure was??
 
thanks for the response. Sweet then, it was a valuable investment? Will I still need to swap it out though? LMK I will try to source an oil press gauge to see how my car is reacting. Definitely will be reading up as updates arise.
 
avarela86 said:
thanks for the response. Sweet then, it was a valuable investment? Will I still need to swap it out though? LMK I will try to source an oil press gauge to see how my car is reacting. Definitely will be reading up as updates arise.
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Yes, they are good gears made for long use. We have a set in the current oil pump on the race motor for this season. We have coated and used them same as the stock ones....
 
As requested, here are some pics of our current oil pan.....

Pic 1

You can see the "gates" surrounding the pick-up that swing only inward to keep oil around the pick-up in turns

Pic 3

This is with the baffle plate in place. Also notice the baffles over the inlets on each side for the turbo oil return and the external PRV bypass return. The keep the oil off the opening to the pan to allow free flowing returns.

Pic 4

Pic5

These are external pics. Notice the "Block Body Emitter" coating to help with oil cooling!
 

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Last edited:
i didnt read through the entire thread.

you guys modified the stock oil pan?
do you offer this service. the awr pan is a little expensive and the clearance in my opinion is poor.
if you do, how much?
 
mspHtown said:
i didnt read through the entire thread.

you guys modified the stock oil pan?
do you offer this service. the awr pan is a little expensive and the clearance in my opinion is poor.
if you do, how much?
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Yes, we used the OE oil pan bolt flange, but it is custom fabricated from there....

We are not really looking to offer these pans as they are quite labor intensive and not really intended for street use as they do require maintenance to keep them from leaking.....

Pictures posted as requested to "get a look" at what we are currently using....
 
MP3racer said:
Yes, we used the OE oil pan bolt flange, but it is custom fabricated from there....

We are not really looking to offer these pans as they are quite labor intensive and not really intended for street use as they do require maintenance to keep them from leaking.....

Pictures posted as requested to "get a look" at what we are currently using....
Click to expand...

Is the oil leaking through the welds?
 
I think the problem was my aggressive driving+long sweeping off ramp. It did not fail at an autocrossing event, but I concerned with the recent oil pressure information. So I got the AWR oil pan to keep the oil from getting away in turns. It also holds more oil, 5 quarts vs. 3.7 quarts. I have only a front SLS mount and have no clearance issues. Whether there are clearance issues with a 4-2-1 header, I am not sure. The other headers should be as long as your stock mounts are not ripped.

Well I figure there are higher possilbities of people autocrossing then road racing because this is a daily driver for most. I, just like many others, do not want to blow another/first motor. So if there is any one out there with a oil pressure gauge, could you do some spirited driving and keep an eye on the gauge, and stop. Record what you shall and wait 4 minutes. Then record your settings and drive some more. Record what they were after that after you stop again. The will help our community determine how close to death our motors are really. I would make it a point to maybe do this three times with three different limiting rpms (4K, 5K, 6K). I would do it, but I do not have a oil pressure gauge installed.
 
mspHtown said:
Is the oil leaking through the welds?
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Yes, this is very common with custom made pans. The mig/tig welds tend to leak a bit, especially with synthetic oils. Just takes a bit of brazing to get it all sealed up. I think you can see the new brazing in pic #4.

I have heard of this with the AWR pans as well....
 
MBSP Idea

I haven't had an MBSP (aka 'upper oil pan block') in my hands, but is there enough wall thickness & is it flat enough that it could be drilled and tapped for a pipe fitting port? Then you could use an AN816-whatever fitting to connect a 37 degree flare fitting hose.

You can find pipe thread taps in hardware stores and if you're careful with how deep you tap the hole it could work. Much cheaper than getting something welded.
 
I will check my pan for oil leaks when I go to change the oil soon. Personally I was pretty impressed and happy with the quality of the pan. Especially if you compare it to their endlinks! Is the welds the real reason it takes so much maintance, or is it because of the spring hinges getting mucked up and not working well? If it is the hinges, I could understand why that would be a pain in the butt for regular people.

I think the idea of drilling, tapping, and not welding the MBSP is probably not a good idea. Since we are dealing with pressure, I am not sure you could seal it good enough without welding it, am I right doc?
 
Magus said:
I will check my pan for oil leaks when I go to change the oil soon. Personally I was pretty impressed and happy with the quality of the pan. Especially if you compare it to their endlinks! Is the welds the real reason it takes so much maintance, or is it because of the spring hinges getting mucked up and not working well? If it is the hinges, I could understand why that would be a pain in the butt for regular people.

I think the idea of drilling, tapping, and not welding the MBSP is probably not a good idea. Since we are dealing with pressure, I am not sure you could seal it good enough without welding it, am I right doc?
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The welds for us have been the most maintenance. The gates stay pretty clean but then again we change the oil in the racecar at each race weekend!

Drilling and tapping the MBSP might not be a bad idea but I'll have to check to see how much thickness is there to se if it would be sufficient enough to get a good seal....
 
hmm, interesting stuff here! im turboing my p5 next month, if you guys make a kit i will seriously think about this!
 
This all sounds great and it couldnt come at a better time for me as my motor is also getting ready to go together. I am very interested and would be willing to beat forcefed on being the guinne pig LOL would like to throw something else into the mix of all this. What has your experience been with windage and crank holding back oil my understanding was the FS-DE cranks will cause a tornado effect and keep oil moving around crank and starving pick-up tube/screen at high RPM this all makes sense to me as Me and other members have seen rod bearing wear on tear downs with no main bearing wear at all this would support the tornado theory I would think. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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