FS-DE Oil System

I wouldn't run anymore than either the sandwich plate or the relocation adapter. Stacking them is just asking for a leak! You may be able to tap the relocation adapter or a sandwich plate for an additional sensor mount...

I read an article the other day by one of the NASCAR engineers that the factory oil pressure sending unit position is always the best place to get a good reading so I would stay with it there. If you decide to run a remote oil filter usually they have provisions for sensors built-in.

We run the oil lines out of the adjuster into the cooler. Out of the cooler to the filter and out of the filter back to the motor. This way we know the motor is always getting good filtered oil.
Yep, that's what I was thinking. Now that I think about it I could probably leave my pressure sender where it is now (but put it after the tee for the oil feed so oil dead-ends into it) my only fear is that the pressure sender is heavy and I've already had one tee crack due to it's weight in that position (that's why I have it before the tee - less moment). I didn't even think about tapping the relocation block - not a bad idea. IIRC it's only a 1/8 NPT thread so the hole woudn't have to be that large. This is definitely looking good and it definitely something I would want on my built motor to make sure everything is getting the oil it needs.
 
We use a relocation adapter rather than a sandwich plate. A sandwich plate is designed to allow the use of the OE oil filter on the back side with two ports coming off at a 90 degree angle. For our race motors (and any performance motor) the OE size oil filter is woefully inadequite. Also, making a 90 degree bend in that short of a distance creates to much resistance to flow. Therefore, we use the adapter shown in the pic below. (BTW, the material wrapped around it is a precaution for any possible leaks. It is a flame retardant absorption material.) It has straight through flow and we use a remote filter mount to allow use of a much larger filter. You can get a remote filter housing with addition ports for your sensors.

In regards to oil cooling, yes we do run a cooler and it is an oil to water cooler or a "heat exchanger". We did not go with an air to oil cooler because with the large intercooler out front there is no more "clean" air to make an air to oil cooler effective and we did not want to decrease the effectiveness of the intercooler.

I hear you on running out of room in the engine bay!!

Thanks for your great questions!(2thumbs)

Tom

-Looking at the pic of relocated filter, i doubt if anyone is capable of doing that to the block unless done at the shop, which will require to pull the engine out and so on.
(why is the turbo oil inlet tapped ?)
-Second what about the oil passages/path, don't they need to be bored to bigger ones ??
-A smaller version of your "system" could be achieved so "street" guys can put it in w/o a big hassle and might be a bit more affordable as well (shady)

Is the oil cooler necessary in theory speaking everything is needed but only in "race" those things really apply and are sufficiently used unless some members here live in deserts of Arizona or such extremely hot places.

I mean the most whp that is street-driven so far is very very few around 400 whp proteges but the majority is under that and even less.
I guess you can leave that part to the end user of the "system".

As far as i can tell we "street" users don't necessary need the bigger oil filter at all or do we ?
 
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I live in northern AZ and most of my roads are in the twisty's. My car is always on a road course. High RPMs in tight corners are the normal 90% of my travel.

So with the constant back and forth I need something that will keep my oil pressure up in the corners. My Racrive header already rubs on my stock oil pan so I don't think I could fit an AWR pan in there. I need a baffled stock oil pan.

Attached are some of the roads I travel on a regular basis.
 

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OK....I have thought about the "streetable" option to the system and this is an option I have come up with......


To utilize an oil filter sandwich plate so that you don't need to find a place to relocate the filter. Oil line coming off the sandwich plate to an external adjuster that can be mounted on the firewall right behind and above where the filter is on the engine. This will keep the lines short and the adjuster accessible. An oil line will come from the adjuster back to the sandwich plate. Another line will need to come back to the pan or preferably back to a fitting welded to the oil pan girdle (the aluminum plate between the engine block and the pan. This last oil line is the bypass return line.
Of course the system would also include a DBR blueprinted oil pump!

Let me know what you guys think of this system....

It is basically the same as the system we have used on the race car but definitely not tested, so I won't be able to guarantee any results.....
 
Just so I'm following this correctly, so us turbo guys would need two taps in the oil pan? I see what you're saying for the need of a bypass but that just seems weird. I'd definitely at least be down for a better oil pump and the better oil pan. Still sort of unsure about the pressure regulation thing. Maybe I'm just visualizing it wrong. Can you make some sort of quick schematic to show how/where everything works/goes?
 
Price man..WOrk with me here..I am ready to be the first to use this on the street.
The timing couldn't be more perfect.
Let's make this happen.
 
Just so I'm following this correctly, so us turbo guys would need two taps in the oil pan? I see what you're saying for the need of a bypass but that just seems weird. I'd definitely at least be down for a better oil pump and the better oil pan. Still sort of unsure about the pressure regulation thing. Maybe I'm just visualizing it wrong. Can you make some sort of quick schematic to show how/where everything works/goes?


Yes, for the turbo as on our race car you would need two fittings on the oil pan. On our race motors we have one in the front (turbo side) for the turbo drain back and one on the rear (intake side) for the bypass return.

I guess I haven't explained it well enough.....The main reason we have found for the degredation of oil pressure over time with consistent hard use of the motor is due to the factory bypass regulator causing cavitation inside the pump. What we have done on our race motors is render this inoperative and replace it with a bypass valve externally. This external bypass valve is adjustable as well.

Does this make sense????
 
WOW...I just found this. I read the article and was REALLY interested as I am running an after market oil pump gears. I bought them a while back from a member. Supposed to send 15% more oil Vol. But I was interested in what you guys would be offering. This kit seems very useful. I was only thinking about an OIL cooler (air cooler) but if this will help with the life of the engine im interested in knowing more. Props to DocB....
 
Price man..WOrk with me here..I am ready to be the first to use this on the street.
The timing couldn't be more perfect.
Let's make this happen.

To start, the price for a DBR "blue printed" oil pump will be $100 (done on your oil pump). This will include disassembly of the pump, recording of original specs, coating of needed parts, recording of new specs, and reassembly of the pump. You will get a copy of the before and after specs.
If needed I can supply the oil pump. I will need to get a price from Mazda on them.
As an added bonus, for the first few orders I will also include the needed labor/parts to change over the pump to be ready for an external adjuster if you would like this done.

Other parts you would need.....
External adjuster $125

You supply the sandwich plate and the hoses

You will also need to get a fitting added to the aluminum engine girdle. This shouldn't be too difficult. If needed I can look into sources here locally. Basically you just need someone who can weld aluminum.
 
That's actually not too bad of a price for the oil pump. Of course I would have to find one and I don't know how expensive they are becauce I can't likely drive around without one, LOL! I still think the adjustability would be too much for me, not to mention how complicated it would make things. Definitely interested in the pump and pan though. Any pics of the pan yet?
 
I am having similar pressure issues, and have recently been looking into shimming my oil pump's prv.

I am running an air to air oil cooler with a remote oil filter and thermostatic valve. With the added turbo systems oil lines, max pressure barely is 50psi and drops all the way down to 13ish at idle. HLA tic is now an issue, and I hate that noise....

I'm curious if you took readings with just the oil pump prv shimmed closed with out the pressure regulator attached? I just want to get my pressure back to what it should be if I had not added the cooler/turbo system...
 
I am having similar pressure issues, and have recently been looking into shimming my oil pump's prv.

I am running an air to air oil cooler with a remote oil filter and thermostatic valve. With the added turbo systems oil lines, max pressure barely is 50psi and drops all the way down to 13ish at idle. HLA tic is now an issue, and I hate that noise....

I'm curious if you took readings with just the oil pump prv shimmed closed with out the pressure regulator attached? I just want to get my pressure back to what it should be if I had not added the cooler/turbo system...

Shimming the pressure relief valve (bypass valve) to get more oil pressure is a trick that's been around for a long time. We tried this early on with disastrous (engine = BOOM) results. The pressure increase was minimal no matter how much we shimmed the spring. The other side was that even with the shimming of the spring and the initial slight increase in pressure, the oil pressure dropped off to the disastrously low numbers with consistent hard use of the motor.....
 
how difficult would it be to integrate this into an existing oil cooling system?

edit: nvr mind, didn't read the above post. so I just need the pump, prv, and a fitting welded to my engine girdle...
 
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how difficult would it be to integrate this into an existing oil cooling system?


It seems like the biggest issue is changing the oil pump. I would think this would be best done while the engine is out although anything's possible....(iagree)
 
This is where the MAGIC lies......(wink)
So if i pony up the penny for the pump and other items..you get me this info...I assume because I actually have to do it...or are you disabling it when I send you my pump?
(ugh)

Either way...do you have links to the things I ned to buy....I assume and Sanwich adapter with two eternal ports would work for the plate?
I can modify the MSBP if needed or my oil pan....and what do you suggest for a pan.

I would also need a filter relocatin kit as well correct?

I have no idea where to source this stuff or where I am loking hence asking for links to what I should buy or a more complete package put together.

LMK
 
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So if i pony up the penny for the pump and other items..you get me this info...I assume because I actually have to do it...or are you disabling it when I send you my pump?
(ugh)

Either way...do you have links to the things I ned to buy....I assume and Sanwich adapter with two eternal ports would work for the plate?
I can modify the MSBP if needed or my oil pan....and what do you suggest for a pan.

I would also need a filter relocatin kit as well correct?

I have no idea where to source this stuff or where I am loking hence asking for links to what I should buy or a more complete package put together.

LMK


Yes, I will disable the factory presure relief bypass valve when I go through your pump.

As for the other stuff, this adaptation of the system we use on the race car is just something I came up with in response to all the requests for a more "streetable" setup. I can get the external bypass valve. There are many sources for sandwich plates so I assume you can get one. If you use a sandwich plate the oil filter screws onto the back of it so you won't need a filter mount/relocation kit. Also, you will need some hoses to hook all this up.

I haven't put a "kit" together since this is something that evolved over the past couple days. I can get you links for more of the stuff if needed.

BTW, proper oiling/engine life is determined by many other factors such as engine bearings, bearing clearance, oil weight, etc.!!
 
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