FS-DE Oil System
- Thread starter MP3racer
- Start date
rednecks_r_us
Member
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- 2003 Laser Blue Protege5
My motor is getting pulled in the very near future (this weekend) so I'm also intrested in pricing and availability.
jimmysuite
Member
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- 2003 Mazda Protege5
also interested in pricing and availability of the oil pump and pressure regulator. (I already have a remote oil filter on the car)
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- -- 03 P5 / 23 CX-5 --
You have my full attention. Subbing for more info as others are.
WOW! My gauge reads upwards of 70 psi at high RPM.
EEK! With a fully warmed up engine at idle, my pressure gauge reads something like 20 psi.
I have a Greedy sandwich plate adapter and Autometer Ultra-Lite gauges.
I've been eyeing up an Accusump setup for the passed couple of days now.
Here it goes - the mass "interest" in something new that will be nonexistent as soon as the actual buying process starts. I've seen it happen way too much on these forums... Anyhow, I'm definitely interested and am patiently waiting for more pics. I'm trying to figure out how to make this work with an air-cooled oil cooler and all the oil gauges I plan on running. And I was trying to reduce the number of hoses under my hood...
I think most of it is due to the fact I'm running the pressure sensor inline with my oil feed line. You know - moving fluid causes low pressure over orafices and such so that is probably the sourse of a little of my problem. I also don't think the autometer gauge I have (ultra-lite, short sweep) is of very high quality. Not knocking Autometer but I bet if I had the full sweep gauge it'd be better. I do plan on running a sandwich plate in the future with AEM oil pressure and temperature gauges as well as provisions for an oil cooler.
Sounds OK. The SCCA rules I'm working with allow replacement of the Oil pan to just about anything you want and relocating of the filter. I should be able to make it work. If I can get a sandwich plate that keeps the oil filter in the stock location and has 2 ports for feed/return is that sufficient? I'm not wanting to add any unnecessary weight.
I know the benefits of having an externally relocated oil filter, so no debating there... however, is there any possible way to engineer a less convoluted solution for "street use"? Race cars have the luxury of removing various stock s*** and making a lot more room in the engine bay, but for us street vehicles, our engine bays are pretty cramped, especially after installing a turbo... so creating a "lesser" system that is "good enough" by either having a preset pressure or more difficult to adjust valve that doesn't take up a lot of room with all these oil lines is probably more desirable for us normal people (like me)
also by doing this (if possible), it could possibly be more marketable to the masses as a simpler to install kit and will probably be cheaper... so you might be able to sell a s*** load of these kits
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timing belt must be removed... oil pan must be removed and so does the MBSP ("upper oil pan block")... it's basically a 5 hour job assuming the tranny doesn't have to be removed since there's 2 10mm bolts on the MBSP that installs into the engine's rear cover (where the rear main seal is)
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- 92 & 16 Meyatas
(ughdance) yikes! i'm with the man on this one.....
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- -- 03 P5 / 23 CX-5 --
Woo, it'd have to be something like replacing the whole motor before tackling this. This'll have to stay in the "if & while the motor's already out" category for me to do it or it would feel like this - (spank).
We use a relocation adapter rather than a sandwich plate. A sandwich plate is designed to allow the use of the OE oil filter on the back side with two ports coming off at a 90 degree angle. For our race motors (and any performance motor) the OE size oil filter is woefully inadequite. Also, making a 90 degree bend in that short of a distance creates to much resistance to flow. Therefore, we use the adapter shown in the pic below. (BTW, the material wrapped around it is a precaution for any possible leaks. It is a flame retardant absorption material.) It has straight through flow and we use a remote filter mount to allow use of a much larger filter. You can get a remote filter housing with addition ports for your sensors.
In regards to oil cooling, yes we do run a cooler and it is an oil to water cooler or a "heat exchanger". We did not go with an air to oil cooler because with the large intercooler out front there is no more "clean" air to make an air to oil cooler effective and we did not want to decrease the effectiveness of the intercooler.
I hear you on running out of room in the engine bay!!
Thanks for your great questions!(2thumbs)
Tom
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Ok, I follow that. I wonder if it would be possible to run a sandwhich plate underneath that for some pressure/temp senders? Man I'm just trying visualize everything. This kit is great but I just wouldn't know where to put my oil pressure/temperature senders with this in place. The temperature sensor can go anywhere as oil flow really won't mess with its reading but the pressure sender needs to be in a "dead end" like the stocker. I suppose an oil-to-air intercooler could always just be run inline with any of the braided steel lines as well as the temperature sender.
I definitely hear you on a less complicated kit would be more marketable! However, the system we developed was done solely to develop the FS-DE for racing. Along the way, on this forum I saw many of the "street" guys were experiencing very similar problems. I wrote the article to show that we have been able to mask some of the short-comings of the OE oiling system on our race motors. I would love to have the time and money to devote to developing a simpler system for the street but that is not in the cards for the short term, especially with the race season growing ever closer!
With that said, I am willing to produce some of the "blue-printed" oil pumps for the forum members. I can also help in aquiring the various other parts of our system (either selling or pointing in the right direction). If you notice in the previously posted picture of our engine bay, we haven't removed that much and this system (especially the external adjuster) does not take up that much room.
But please realize we have only tested this system on our race motors which have specific main/rod bearing tolerances matched to our oil brand and weight. We cannot gaurantee the same results on everyones motor due to the extreme amount of variables.....
Hopefully, in the future, if there is enough interest we might be able to do some "street" testing on a stock MSP we have.....
I wouldn't run anymore than either the sandwich plate or the relocation adapter. Stacking them is just asking for a leak! You may be able to tap the relocation adapter or a sandwich plate for an additional sensor mount...
I read an article the other day by one of the NASCAR engineers that the factory oil pressure sending unit position is always the best place to get a good reading so I would stay with it there. If you decide to run a remote oil filter usually they have provisions for sensors built-in.
We run the oil lines out of the adjuster into the cooler. Out of the cooler to the filter and out of the filter back to the motor. This way we know the motor is always getting good filtered oil.
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One simplification to "the system" I have been thinking of running on the race car is the recently available combo oil filter mounts with built-in pressure adjusters. The cost is about the same as the two separate units but for space savings it might be worth looking at!!!
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well of course... your race car is the whole reason why this thread exists...
one thing I forgot to look at last night as for interchangable OEM oil pressure relief valve springs... I have a feeling there are springs from a different mazda motor's oil pump will fit and raise pressure for us as a quick and dirty bandaid fix... also it is interesting to note that back in the late 80s and early 90s, MazdaSpeed used to sell racing oil pumps for the B6-T, B6-ZE, and BP-ZE.... most possibly they had tighter tollerances but they definatley had a higher pressure spring
I was going to look through my shop manuals last night to see which engine had the highest pressure spec and check with the parts catalogs also to see if the parts were interchangable but I got busy with other things.... I'll see about checking this s*** over the weekend
one thing you may want to think about doing is designing and manufacturing a pressure control adapter that mounts where the oil filter/cooler is and have the oil filter sit on top of it... I believe it's totally possible to have a "pressure control block" that doesn't require an oil filter relocate... with this idea, it is possible to market this product for other mazdas also, such as the miata, rotary cars, and the K-series engines as long as it is a compact package as all of these mazdas have one thing in common... they use the same oil filter size (the K-series uses a taller filter).... the only thing that makes this mod complicated is having to **** with the pressure relief valve in the oil pump... there's not any way around this...
so just a thought