The next MS3: AWD Evo/STi killer?

desperado-c

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Mazdaspeed3
Lately I've been spinning my front wheels in 2nd a lot due to the colder weather and less tread, I suppose. It's kind of got me thinking how my next car is probably going to be AWD. But it will have to be pretty light weight, too. Given that I've had a pretty great experience owning Mazda, I'd kinda like to stick with them. So, admittedly, this has increased my level of wishful thinking about the possibility of an AWD MS3 being produced.

This is all speculation, reading tea leaves, etc., but what if the MS6 and the MS3 are really part of a long-term, evolutionary strategy to come up with an Evo/STi killer by, say, the 2010 model year? Looking at recent history, originally some thought the MS6 would be taking on that niche, but 3550-3600 lbs and 273hp is just not enough power-to-weight to do the job. And the AWD wasn't up to the task when more juice was added, so everyone soon realized that Mazda meant it when they said it was aimed at the more upscale sport-tourers (Audi/BMW, etc.). Then the MS3 was announced and a lot of people wondered if maybe it would be AWD and better able to take on the task. But no AWD, so, no, it's an FWD aimed at the WRX.

But then we get Mazda NA's head of product dev (?) appearing with DG and talking about how easy it is to convert the MS3 to AWD. Next we have SCC saying they have a big surprise planned in conjunction with Mazda NA. So I'm now starting to think that (in additon to being the testbed for turbo DISI) maybe the MS6 was the testbed for performance AWD, without having to take it to Evo/STi levels. With people modding and adding more power, Mazda could just watch and see how things shook out. Then the MS3 was the testbed for performance handling without having to add the complexity of AWD. Hence all the time spent at the track and the MS-CAI and coilover options. The logical next step would be to put the two together by taking the experience gained with the MS6's AWD and combining it with the experience gained making the MS3 handle to come up with . . . an Evo/STi killer (or at least competitor, maybe priced a little lower). A guy can dream, can't he?
 
Sound reasoning to me. I think that this is at the top of the list of interests from the MS3 commuinity. I hope we can see more on this soon. If it can be had for around $3000 i would drop the money in a heartbeat. Everything ive read says its "easy". I certainly will be pissed if they release an AWD MS3 anytime soon. I think it would kinda be a slap in the face to the early adopters.....but then again it may provide a jumpstart figuring out get the parts together.
 
I wouldn't expect Mazda to officially release an "upgrade" that would allow you to take your MS3 into a dealer and AWD-ify it.

However, if a few speed6 drivetrains showed up in the parts bin and some enterprising tuners picked them up with the intention of doing some cutting and welding and fabricating and hooking up an awd system, I wouldn't be surprised.

Bottom line is that there most likely will never be a simple "bolt on" all wheel drive mod. You will have to find the parts yourself and fabricate some of the pieces to make things fit right. Do not get your hopes up for a $3000 or even a $4000 AWD bolt on.

As far as mazda releasing an AWD mazdaspeed3, its certainly a possibility, but I would expect it to be part of the next generation 3, not this generation.

Just my $0.02
 
We are debating the technical part Here.
I'm sure it can be done, but we have to experiment first. And according to the last pics posted here of the DG ms3, it doesn't show any awd components. So it could be that DG has another ms3 for actual testing, or they just wanted to see how everybody reacted.

***Edit***

Here are the last pics I've seen of the supposedly awd DG ms3. I don't see any rear diff on these pics!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123687140&highlight=awd+ms3&page=7
 
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We are debating the technical part Here.
I'm sure it can be done, but we have to experiment first. And according to the last pics posted here of the DG ms3, it doesn't show any awd components. So it could be that DG has another ms3 for actual testing, or they just wanted to see how everybody reacted.

***Edit***

Here are the last pics I've seen of the supposedly awd DG ms3. I don't see any rear diff on these pics!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123687140&highlight=awd+ms3&page=7
What a ******* rip, that IS NOT a AWD car...... PISSED. Sigh, hopefully its just a matter of time.
 
STI/EVO killer? Well, to do that it's gonna cost some serious loot, as compared to now, and IMO you'd be better off buying an EVO or STI for that price range. Not to create an argument, because I know people are very defensive and quick to defend their car, but this is coming from a Speed 6 owner. The AWD system in the Speed 6 cannot hold a candle to the system in the STI. The car itself is weaker, and not as beefed up.

In the end, depending on what you want, you get what you pay for. The compromise in price IMO is on the strength of the parts. I just can't see my Speed 6, or even a Speed 3, being as durable long term when modifying as an EVO or STI. Those cars are built to modify. Just my opinion, so I ask that people don't get their panties in a bunch. ;)

For the money, the Speed 3 is a better value, but, they'd really have to put some R+D to compete, and in all honesty, the car will likely fail in the market place if priced in the 33k+ range. They could however, make a more affordable AWD version that's close to as fast, but it still won't be an STI or EVO. Those cars have too much put into them, and a history that's undeniable in high performance.
 
I think Mazda did it right with the MS3. I love the fact that it's an affordable, small, 4 door, 4-cylinder, FWD, "wagon" that produces numbers that rival many more reputable "sports cars".

I went to the market and parked between a Prius and a Mini. I had to laugh at how easily the MS3 blended in. I loved it when my aunt asked if it was a hybrid. Yet when I punch it on the freeway it's all muscle. The MS3 defies popular performace car thinking.

I am not in the market for a Mustang GT, 350Z, Sti, or Evo. Their sticker price and cost of insurance is a huge deterent for me. But for $22,400 I can have a car that performs great, is inexpensive to own, and has the practicality of 4 doors and a generous cargo area.

If the MS3 were AWD with Sti/Evo-like performance numbers then it would not have been an option for me due to the increased cost of purchase and ownership.
 
I think Mazda did it right with the MS3. I love the fact that it's an affordable, small, 4 door, 4-cylinder, FWD, "wagon" that produces numbers that rival many more reputable "sports cars".

I went to the market and parked between a Prius and a Mini. I had to laugh at how easily the MS3 blended in. I loved it when my aunt asked if it was a hybrid. Yet when I punch it on the freeway it's all muscle. The MS3 defies popular performace car thinking.

I am not in the market for a Mustang GT, 350Z, Sti, or Evo. Their sticker price and cost of insurance is a huge deterent for me. But for $22,400 I can have a car that performs great, is inexpensive to own, and has the practicality of 4 doors and a generous cargo area.

If the MS3 were AWD with Sti/Evo-like performance numbers then it would not have been an option for me due to the increased cost of purchase and ownership.

Well said and put! Mazda went above and beyond to make a very performance oriented car affordable and competative with others in the market. Alot of my VW buddies spent far more than myself on less car. I feel that that this has raised the bar in the sport compact world and we can expect only bigger and better from now on, ie the new ralliart lancer, sub 25 and awd. Things will get interesting from here on out. I just hope the new successor to the Speed3 will preform just as well if not better.
 
Let us look to the Volkswagen R32 - Taking a great car (VW GTI) and adding AWD does not make it better.

The GTI is cited as a great blend of utility and performance (much like the MS3). But when fitted with AWD, the weight factor makes handling worse, and it actually loses its appeal. Not to mention it costs over 32000 for a small compact car.

I agree. Mazda did their homework when designing/pricing/testing the market with the MS3. They absolutely nailed it. Now, I dont own one (dealer markups actually made it more expensive than a rebate-laden MS6) but I have driven one, and its a blast.
 
Let us look to the Volkswagen R32 - Taking a great car (VW GTI) and adding AWD does not make it better.

The GTI is cited as a great blend of utility and performance (much like the MS3). But when fitted with AWD, the weight factor makes handling worse, and it actually loses its appeal. Not to mention it costs over 32000 for a small compact car.

I agree. Mazda did their homework when designing/pricing/testing the market with the MS3. They absolutely nailed it. Now, I dont own one (dealer markups actually made it more expensive than a rebate-laden MS6) but I have driven one, and its a blast.


You are indeed correct, the R32 was and is a great car, but a slightly modified Mkv GTI actually performs very similar around a track. Which to me does not justify its additional cost. My hope is that mazda will continue their formula, maybe even keep the MS3 running another production year.

Something tells me they are considering it, due to the mid year colors changes that are getting ready to hit.


PS: Till this day R32s are still sitting on dealer lots at a uber ridiculous price, dealerships have had to discount the prices in order to move them. The car was not well thought out by VW.

In light of all things I predict that Chevy will be come a powerful player in the sport compact market soon. They are making some smart moves that is quite impressive for an American based company. The new hhr(however ugly as sin) is turbo charged and produces great number and is also available in manual and auto, the new cobalt will also have similar HP to the MS3 and will be a cheaper alternative for HP seeking youth. Things are looking to become very competitive in this markets segment.
 
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In light of all things I predict that Chevy will be come a powerful player in the sport compact market soon. They are making some smart moves that is quite impressive for an American based company. The new hhr(however ugly as sin) is turbo charged and produces great number and is also available in manual and auto, the new cobalt will also have similar HP to the MS3 and will be a cheaper alternative for HP seeking youth. Things are looking to become very competitive in this markets segment.

I agree. Chevy has always been a popular and cheap, plus, they have the Staged Upgrades ... additional HP with a warranty? Thats amazing. Their new line up is def gonna turn heads. Cobalts may be cheap quality, but you cant deny that with a turbo, and Chevy's ability to build engines that support modifications better than almost any Japanese car, these will be screamers.

Plus, Chevy knows the philosophy ... if a V8 fits, stick it in there. If it doesnt, then Turbo It!

I am waiting for a G6 sized, RWD turbocharged sedan that I hear is in the works from Chevy/Pontiac/Cadillac!
 
A mazda service writer was telling me that they were gonna make an AWD MS3 but, I don't know if I can trust what he said or not
 
I agree. Chevy has always been a popular and cheap, plus, they have the Staged Upgrades ... additional HP with a warranty? Thats amazing. Their new line up is def gonna turn heads. Cobalts may be cheap quality, but you cant deny that with a turbo, and Chevy's ability to build engines that support modifications better than almost any Japanese car, these will be screamers.

Plus, Chevy knows the philosophy ... if a V8 fits, stick it in there. If it doesnt, then Turbo It!

I am waiting for a G6 sized, RWD turbocharged sedan that I hear is in the works from Chevy/Pontiac/Cadillac!

Very true, the new G8 is a very tempting rwd option with a very capable engine aswell. Many who doubt GMs ability to build cars should look no further than Europe from which all of these newer cars are finding their new chassis and sportiness.

A mazda service writer was telling me that they were gonna make an AWD MS3 but, I don't know if I can trust what he said or not

I dont really think you should believe your service writer. I think he is pulling that one out of thin air. However rumor has it that the 2.3 disi may get more displacement and retain its turbocharged power. I can only assume that it will be offered in the new Mazda6 and then a tweaked version will appear a couple of year later as a Mazdaspeed. I also predict a sedan version of the 3 getting turbo power. This is of course my own speculation as to what would be viable for such a company.
 
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Has anyone seen an 08 R32 on the road yet? I see them at dealerships and that's about it. I mean seriously, who is the jackass in charge of marketing at VW that thought they could sell that car at 35K sticker.
 
I've seen ONE since they were released. I haven't even seen any sitting around the dealerships here.

However, there are a few of the Bright orange fahrenheit edition GTI's driving around near me.
 
I think Mazda did it right with the MS3. I love the fact that it's an affordable, small, 4 door, 4-cylinder, FWD, "wagon" that produces numbers that rival many more reputable "sports cars".

....

If the MS3 were AWD with Sti/Evo-like performance numbers then it would not have been an option for me due to the increased cost of purchase and ownership.

Yeah, I guess I'm overstating the "killer" part. What I'm hoping for is something in between the performance of the MS3 and the Evo/STi, that is also priced in between. Something kind of like this (minus the boy racer wing and with a hatch):

http://www.edmunds.com/mitsubishi/lancer/2009/review.html
 

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2010 ms3?

Ok from what i have heard here and what common sense tells me AWD from Mazda is not probable, but i read that the next gen is coming with a 2.5engine option and will be a bit larget outside as well as inside to stay within interior demensions of the Evo and STI. I would think that is a given. I want the car but I am willing to wait for the next gen. I like the room the STI and EVO have but not the price, not to mention the 2.5 having more SCOOT for my money. Has anyone heard of Mazdas stock turbo 2.5 (glare) on the horizon near 300hp or is what i have read smoke and mirrors?
 
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