Twiggy Sticks Install, tuning and results thread

L

LordWorm

Member
Ok - we needed to seperate those who have installed these things from those who are still having on-going issues with getting them fixed - questions about installs, tuning, results, thoughts, etc don't really belong in a group buy thread...

so here it is..

Current list of those who've installed are

1. LordWorm (NA)
2. AusOrion (NA)
3. MZ_Zoom (FI)
4. Kayman (FI)
5. Sleepy (NA)


Aftermarket ECU tuning tip #1 - if idle is screwy, use the throttle adjustment screw to open the throttle slightly - aftermarket ECUs seem to be unable to cope with any sort of decent idle control

erm

Ok..thats it from me..
 
Here's a dumb question for someone who has installed these himself. To turn NA into FI cams, Twilight said to retard intake cam 5 and advance exhaust 6. Was that on the cam gear or crankshaft? ie 5 and 6 onthe gear or half that for crankshaft degrees or whatever?
 
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Sleepy said:
Here's a dumb question for someone who has installed these himself. To turn NA into FI cams, Twilight said to retard intake cam 5 and advance exhaust 6. Was that on the cam gear or crankshaft? ie 5 and 6 onthe gear or half that for crankshaft degrees or whatever?
Click to expand...
Cam gears
 
Ive been riding with my twiggy cams for awhile now. so im gonna give you guys some updates. IT FREAKEN KICKS ASS above 4000rpm.... pulls you right into your seat. thats all i gotta say.....(drive)
 
i have a issue with it not idling...it would kinda flux at the stop light. but NOT always. just once or twice...as soon as i give it gas then its fine..or when i start it in the morning..??? lord worm what can you tell me about it? first off the car as been running fine. this idling issue started after i installed my DSM-AFC and up my boost to 9psi. mods are ApexR1 3inch j pipe catless back,injen CAI, perrin FMIC,dual bov/PBV setup, twiggy cams,PNP 626 intake mani,i step colder ngk spark plugs........could it be vac leak? i checked it. could it be that i need to tune it? i ran the FMIC map, idling issue present. i tried running the supermap..same thing? what could it be? i mean it doesnt happen all the time...just once or twice like i said. most of the time it would run just fine...(smash)

I raced a 2000si turbo charged last weekend. the guy drove up to me and decided to rev his motor. so i was like ok.. wanna race...it was good timing too Cause i wanted to see what these twiggy cams can do....OH yES...you all know the ending ...i left him more then half a block behind. i slowed down and he came creeping up to me again. i down shift and i was gone again...poor civic never got the chance to win LOL(hand)
 
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You probably have to modify the maps a bit to compensate for the extra air the engine is getting thanks to the new cams. In terms of performance is there any change below 4K? Also how does the powerband hold through after 4K where does it seem to drop off, if at all... General driveability wise, is this your daily driver? If so are these profiles stable enough for daily driving?
 
MZ ZOOM said:
i have a issue with it not idling...it would kinda flux at the stop light. but NOT always. just once or twice...as soon as i give it gas then its fine..or when i start it in the morning..??? lord worm what can you tell me about it? first off the car as been running fine. this idling issue started after i installed my DSM-AFC and up my boost to 9psi. mods are ApexR1 3inch j pipe catless back,injen CAI, perrin FMIC,dual bov/PBV setup, twiggy cams,PNP 626 intake mani,i step colder ngk spark plugs........could it be vac leak? i checked it. could it be that i need to tune it? i ran the FMIC map, idling issue present. i tried running the supermap..same thing? what could it be? i mean it doesnt happen all the time...just once or twice like i said. most of the time it would run just fine...(smash)
Click to expand...

Its your AFC i'd imagine. stand alones/piggy backs seem to play merry hell with the idle control. I am not familliar with the DSM unit - but the first thing i'd suggest you do is wind open the idle adjustment screw, and if you can, give it a shade more timing on the idle maps.

Failing that you need to play with the throttlebody butterfly adjustment bolt (thats what sleepy and myself have had to do to solve some idle issues). This should be considered a last resort cos you are not "meant" to be playing with it ...hehe

I raced a 2000si turbo charged last weekend. the guy drove up to me and decided to rev his motor. so i was like ok.. wanna race...it was good timing too Cause i wanted to see what these twiggy cams can do....OH yES...you all know the ending ...i left him more then half a block behind. i slowed down and he came creeping up to me again. i down shift and i was gone again...poor civic never got the chance to win LOL(hand)
Click to expand...
awesome!!!!

I love the kick at 4k.... drills like nothing else, even on NA.... first time i got right into it I felt whiplashed into the seat..it was nuts!
 
lisevolution said:
You probably have to modify the maps a bit to compensate for the extra air the engine is getting thanks to the new cams. In terms of performance is there any change below 4K? Also how does the powerband hold through after 4K where does it seem to drop off, if at all... General driveability wise, is this your daily driver? If so are these profiles stable enough for daily driving?
Click to expand...
I can only speak from an NA point of view - but they seem to be very drivable on a daily basis (the FI cams are th e same profile, which equates to "very agressive" for turbo...)

There has been some reports of loss in midrange power on the NA setups, which is cured by a bit more ignition timing.

Not sure what it is you do with your car, but assuming the gearing etc is the same as my aus spec NA car - you do most of your "cruising" (that is, not requiring power) below 4k...so as long as it "drives" below 4k, the power doesn't need to be overly inspiring.....

When I hit the hills and go hell for leather, i find it quite easy to hold the car above the 4000rpm "kick" that it gets - this should translate easilly to autox or circuit racing i'd imagine.

but yeh, if its a concern, it appears th at a bit more ignition timing below 4k is just what you need to get any loss back...

Personally, i barely noticed a thing from the loss side....it does take a LITTLE longer to get its mojo on, but yeh, you forget all about it at 4k ;)
 
Although I got my idle sorted out and down to 750rpm, it was just too crazy for me. The sound was just nuts and the engine rocking too much, so I adjusted the cam gears to halfway between NA and FI spec. With A/C off, it still sounds a bit angry, with A/C on it calms down and just sounds mildly annoyed sometimes, rather than ready to rip someones head off as previously. I don't know if my engine being a 1.8 makes a difference.
 
Sleepy said:
Although I got my idle sorted out and down to 750rpm, it was just too crazy for me. The sound was just nuts and the engine rocking too much, so I adjusted the cam gears to halfway between NA and FI spec. With A/C off, it still sounds a bit angry, with A/C on it calms down and just sounds mildly annoyed sometimes, rather than ready to rip someones head off as previously. I don't know if my engine being a 1.8 makes a difference.
Click to expand...
I woulda just gone for a higher idle speed dude.

I've been running a 900rpm rev limit since going stand alone.... with no ill effects. Burns a bit more fuel at idle (obviously) but was smoother..and is much smoother with the cam gears...i've actually got mine standing at about 1100 at the moment, which is a bit high, gotta adjust the throttle adjustment thing a bit more.
 
lisevolution said:
You probably have to modify the maps a bit to compensate for the extra air the engine is getting thanks to the new cams. In terms of performance is there any change below 4K? Also how does the powerband hold through after 4K where does it seem to drop off, if at all... General driveability wise, is this your daily driver? If so are these profiles stable enough for daily driving?
Click to expand...

the car seems more sluggish under 3500k. but as soon as it hits 3500k you can feel the power kicking in..4k to almost redline is when it just keeps pulling the car. 3rd gear has most of the power hitting it. so i stick to 3rd gear longer then after that i shift to 4th and 5th. even in 5th it will still pull the car. all my shifting points has also changed. but i never go far enough to redline. the sluggish doesnt bother me much because i know theres lots of power after 3500k. its not much of a daily driver as of yet. but it well be...and im sure its stable enough to drive daily. just dont turn your AC on....it'll be like sitting in a race car. i also have AWR 70duramounts all around. so thats why. but i love the feel of the vibration...its like sitting in a race car...LOL.. and the cams going blump...blump at idle.

as for the AFC. i'll try tuning it alittle more...seems like the idling problem isnt that bad compare to LORDWORM and SLEEPY. i love the sound of the engine sucking all that air....especially when im driving..and it goes SSSSSSSssssssssss everytime i step on the throttle...these cams are the best performance part i have ever invested in my protege....gotta love it. now back to tuning it more..then i'll have a performance shop dyno it and tune it some more...but i dont think its gonna happen anytime soon...im craving for more power..so that means saving up and buying more stuff for the protege.(yippy)
 
MZ ZOOM said:
the car seems more sluggish under 3500k. but as soon as it hits 3500k you can feel the power kicking in..4k to almost redline is when it just keeps pulling the car. 3rd gear has most of the power hitting it. so i stick to 3rd gear longer then after that i shift to 4th and 5th. even in 5th it will still pull the car. all my shifting points has also changed. but i never go far enough to redline. the sluggish doesnt bother me much because i know theres lots of power after 3500k. its not much of a daily driver as of yet. but it well be...and im sure its stable enough to drive daily. just dont turn your AC on....it'll be like sitting in a race car. i also have AWR 70duramounts all around. so thats why. but i love the feel of the vibration...its like sitting in a race car...LOL.. and the cams going blump...blump at idle.

as for the AFC. i'll try tuning it alittle more...seems like the idling problem isnt that bad compare to LORDWORM and SLEEPY. i love the sound of the engine sucking all that air....especially when im driving..and it goes SSSSSSSssssssssss everytime i step on the throttle...these cams are the best performance part i have ever invested in my protege....gotta love it. now back to tuning it more..then i'll have a performance shop dyno it and tune it some more...but i dont think its gonna happen anytime soon...im craving for more power..so that means saving up and buying more stuff for the protege.(yippy)
Click to expand...
haha...you love vibration? i'm on THE HARDEST AWR mounts you can get, with fat lumpy overlap...my machine shakes like a mofo....haha..

get the car to a dyno shop and get them to check out your timing, if you can afford more ignition timing below 4000rpm without deto, you may cure some if not all the "slugishness"....

also, if you get adjustable cam gears, they'll be able to adjust the cams so they are more tailored to your individual car (the overlap figures that the cam place put on the cams are "best guesses" based on years of experience doing this sort of stuff, but nothing can replace a few hours on a dyno squeezing the most outta them).

as for idle, sleepy and i are having issues because we can't get the fine grained control over the idle control solenoid that we need to, plus the big overlap is whats making it so much worse for us. on standard factory ecu's they seem to be just perfect, but you limit what you can do with the car, obviously.


I'm sure andrew will be happy with your analysis of the cams...get a dyno, would love to see what kinda power you are pulling
 
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I don't have any idle problems now :) My idle control was messed up before the cams went in, but with some more fiddling around, it's working again and so is the closed loop. I put a relay in the O2S input and activate it with the auxilliary output to open the O2S circuit and make the PCM go open loop wherever I want it to so I can tune the AFR without worrying about fighting with PCM's closed loop. I need to have the TAS open a bit(1% TPS instead of 2.8% with full overlap), with AAS all the way out to idle well at about 750rpm.
 
Someone post some more vid of the cams installed, we want more vids of both the idle and reving.
 
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