Custom Performance Engineering's complete SPEED6 tuning solution

www.cp-e.com · Jan 31, 2007

jdub260 said:
OK here is what I consider some good questions for cp-e.

Can the AWD distribution be manually controlled through this system or something similar? From what I know the AWD system is controlled by the computer.

Can this system be set up to automatically turn the DSC off? I hate having an electronic baby sitter, if I want it I should have to turn it on.

Those are good questions! Unfortunately we are unable to perform either of the operations you mention with our piggyback. You can basically think of a piggyback tuner as a signal conditioner. We can tap into any sensor and alter the signal sent to the ECU in order to change engine operation parameters from its stock configuration. Since the AWD system is heavily reliant on sensors (eg. wheel speed and steering angle) we could lie to the AWD system, but I'm can't come up with a scenario in my head where this would be beneficial? Maybe you can fill me in on what you're considering. But since the DSC system isn't exactly a sensor, we can't do much to change its default setting.

We actually ran into some issues last week with the fuel cut. It turns out that there's a lot more that goes into the fuel cut initiation than just the MAP sensor input. So, we wrestled with the SPEED6 for a while and were able to get it to do what we wanted it to, but we had to be clever about it (I'll explain in detail later). We're going to schedule a dyno for next week so we can create an optimized map for stock SPEED6's, and we'll start distributing our piggyback to beta testers soon as well. Stay tuned guys, there's a lot more to come!

Jordan

jdub260 · Feb 1, 2007

www.cp-e.com said:
Since the AWD system is heavily reliant on sensors (eg. wheel speed and steering angle) we could lie to the AWD system, but I'm can't come up with a scenario in my head where this would be beneficial? Maybe you can fill me in on what you're considering.
Jordan

I just got the idea from riding in a friends STI that had a manual adjustment mode along with an automatic mode. I have no clue exactly when the manual adjustments would be needed I just like to have my options open. You know it's one of those "Yea I can do that too" or "Yea I got that" situations.

www.cp-e.com · Feb 1, 2007

jdub260 said:
I just got the idea from riding in a friends STI that had a manual adjustment mode along with an automatic mode. I have no clue exactly when the manual adjustments would be needed I just like to have my options open. You know it's one of those "Yea I can do that too" or "Yea I got that" situations.

Ahh, I see. I enjoy trick features like that as well, so I can't blame you

Jordan

MS64MEE · Feb 1, 2007

www.cp-e.com said:
We actually ran into some issues last week with the fuel cut. It turns out that there's a lot more that goes into the fuel cut initiation than just the MAP sensor input. So, we wrestled with the SPEED6 for a while and were able to get it to do what we wanted it to, but we had to be clever about it (I'll explain in detail later). We're going to schedule a dyno for next week so we can create an optimized map for stock SPEED6's, and we'll start distributing our piggyback to beta testers soon as well. Stay tuned guys, there's a lot more to come!

Jordan

Jordan -- Will the maps that you're creating be compatible with cars that run 91? Since these cars seem sensitive to octane, I was wondering how maps based on a car using 93 will run for those of us who have to run 91.

BTW...Kudos to you guys at CPE. I'm new to this tuning stuff but you have really got my attention with your piggyback (so much that I've held back on my originally planned purchase of the ETS TMIC). I've enjoyed learning about this car through your detailed posts and as an engineer, I can really appreciate the care and detail that you guys seem to bring to your work. Also, I like your philosophy of increasing power but in a reliable way because this is my daily driver that I plan to drive for awhile.

spike blue · Feb 1, 2007

nice info!!! I have a question will this piggi back will work in the cx-7 o you're planning on making one for the cx-7???

www.cp-e.com · Feb 1, 2007

MS64MEE said:
Jordan -- Will the maps that you're creating be compatible with cars that run 91? Since these cars seem sensitive to octane, I was wondering how maps based on a car using 93 will run for those of us who have to run 91.

BTW...Kudos to you guys at CPE. I'm new to this tuning stuff but you have really got my attention with your piggyback (so much that I've held back on my originally planned purchase of the ETS TMIC). I've enjoyed learning about this car through your detailed posts and as an engineer, I can really appreciate the care and detail that you guys seem to bring to your work. Also, I like your philosophy of increasing power but in a reliable way because this is my daily driver that I plan to drive for awhile.

I don't think there's any better compliment then a kudos from a fellow engineer! Your comments mean a lot to us, thanks!

Concerning octane and our tune, we're really not going to tune the SPEED6 to the ragged edge. Since this map needs to work on a wide range of cars (many of which are daily drivers like yours), we're going to keep our tune conservative, but it will still make a noticable difference nonetheless. A good example of this is with our Subaru STi intake kit. We were only able to tune the air/fuel ratio, and our changes were very conservative so it would work with either 91 or 93 octane, and we still picked up over 25 horsepower up top.

Since we can also adjust timing and boost pressure on the MS6, I'd expect some pretty substantial gains despite the factor of safety we're building in. We figure if someone would like to pick up as much power as possible, we'll leave it to the end-user to tune their car the way they like it if our tune isn't aggressive enough. So really, our tune should work with both 91 and 93 octane and should be just fine for your daily driver.

Jordan

MS64MEE · Feb 1, 2007

www.cp-e.com said:
Since we can also adjust timing and boost pressure on the MS6, I'd expect some pretty substantial gains despite the factor of safety we're building in. We figure if someone would like to pick up as much power as possible, we'll leave it to the end-user to tune their car the way they like it if our tune isn't aggressive enough. So really, our tune should work with both 91 and 93 octane and should be just fine for your daily driver.

Jordan

(2thumbs) Between working with 91 and getting that line on those PnP connectors (which I know you will), you've just about got me locked in (much to my wife's chagrin (lol2) )

RevLimitLaunch · Feb 1, 2007

will you be able to control boost so it stays consistant in all gears (i dont know if everyones car is like this but mine hits 11 psi in 1 and 2, then 15 or so in the rest)...

i may not have read past posts correctly, but have you conquered throttle position so its stays open more throughout the whole rpm band?? this is probably the biggest concern to me so that the use actually having that redline on these cars will sometime matter lol.

www.cp-e.com · Feb 2, 2007

RevLimitLaunch said:
will you be able to control boost so it stays consistant in all gears (i dont know if everyones car is like this but mine hits 11 psi in 1 and 2, then 15 or so in the rest)...

i may not have read past posts correctly, but have you conquered throttle position so its stays open more throughout the whole rpm band?? this is probably the biggest concern to me so that the use actually having that redline on these cars will sometime matter lol.

Because our piggyback features a feedback loop for the boost pressure, it will open or close the wastegate to generate the boost you demand. So regardless of what gear you're in, if your engine is capable of making the boost you're requesting, our piggyback will increase the wastegate duty cycle until it hits its target.

As far as the throttle plate goes, we've come to the conclusion that the throttle plate isn't as much of a restriction as it is on the SPEED6 as it is on the 3, and we won't have any control over it with this board. However, since we need to get control of the throttle on the SPEED3 soon, and because the electrical board layouts are almost identical to each other, we're likely going to offer an upgrade to the new board once we finish it. In other words, if you buy our piggyback now and would like to upgrade to the new board later, we'll offer you a core exchange so that your total cost is less than if you had just bought the newer board alone. This way we can release the piggyback now, you can enjoy 98% of what you car has to offer, and you can like to upgrade later if you'd like.

But we've found (at least with our test car) that if you tune the car well, it'll pull hard to redline even if the throttle does close a little.

Jordan

spike blue · Feb 2, 2007

will this piggiback work in the cx-7 or you are plannig on making one??? What happen with the downpipe and the exhaust you were planning to make??? I very interested in moding my car!!!

www.cp-e.com · Feb 2, 2007

spike blue said:
will this piggiback work in the cx-7 or you are plannig on making one??? What happen with the downpipe and the exhaust you were planning to make??? I very interested in moding my car!!!

Our piggyback is easily adaptable to the CX7, but without any definitive evidence to show, we think that the throttle plate is very limiting on the CX7 like it is on the SPEED3. We need to verify this at some point before we do anything on the CX7. But we would like to release an optimized tune for the CX7 after we're finished with the SPEED3.

We were going to make a downpipe and exhaust for the CX7 when it first came out, but we've been very dissapointed with the sales of our cold air intake so our plans have changed. I'll be frank with you, since we released the intake back in November, we've sold all of 8 cold air kits. So at the moment, we've lost money on that project. The majority of threads in the CX7 forum indicate that people want lot's of performance parts, but there only seem to be a small group of people who actually buy the parts that are already available. So it's hard for us to justify another CX7 project after losing money on what is typically one of our most successful products (i.e. cold air kits). If our CX7 intake starts selling well indicating that people are ready to mod their vehicles, then we'll consider doing an exhaust system for it. But for now, we need to stick the vehicles that help keep our lights on. So, maybe make an exhaust for the CX7 in the future, but we don't have any immediate plans to do so. So sorry spike

Jordan

spike blue · Feb 2, 2007

ohh ok i understand that!!! Thats a good point!!! But you still have intakes for the cx-7??? I will buy it next month!!! Well i hope cx-7 owners start to mod this monster LOL. thanks!!!

www.cp-e.com · Feb 2, 2007

spike blue said:
ohh ok i understand that!!! Thats a good point!!! But you still have intakes for the cx-7??? I will buy it next month!!! Well i hope cx-7 owners start to mod this monster LOL. thanks!!!

Actually I've been meaning to post a new thread in the CX7 forum. We'd like to dyno a local front wheel drive CX7 because we believe that the intake made more power than the dyno graphs indicate. We had a lot of issues with the AWD DSC on the dyno, and we tried everything we could to get consistent numbers. The numbers we got are good, but we think with a FWD version with the DSC off would show the true potential of the intake.

But we still have the intake for sale, in fact I think we have about 15 units here, so we should have one ready for you when you place your order. Thanks a lot for understanding our position (drinks)

Jordan

RevLimitLaunch · Feb 2, 2007

www.cp-e.com said:
Because our piggyback features a feedback loop for the boost pressure, it will open or close the wastegate to generate the boost you demand. So regardless of what gear you're in, if your engine is capable of making the boost you're requesting, our piggyback will increase the wastegate duty cycle until it hits its target.

As far as the throttle plate goes, we've come to the conclusion that the throttle plate isn't as much of a restriction as it is on the SPEED6 as it is on the 3, and we won't have any control over it with this board. However, since we need to get control of the throttle on the SPEED3 soon, and because the electrical board layouts are almost identical to each other, we're likely going to offer an upgrade to the new board once we finish it. In other words, if you buy our piggyback now and would like to upgrade to the new board later, we'll offer you a core exchange so that your total cost is less than if you had just bought the newer board alone. This way we can release the piggyback now, you can enjoy 98% of what you car has to offer, and you can like to upgrade later if you'd like.

But we've found (at least with our test car) that if you tune the car well, it'll pull hard to redline even if the throttle does close a little.

Jordan

well regardless i would love to have that throttle control, but i plan on buying the unit either way as soon as its pnp. cant wait to squeeze more power out of the beast. (alright)

www.cp-e.com · Feb 2, 2007

RevLimitLaunch said:
well regardless i would love to have that throttle control, but i plan on buying the unit either way as soon as its pnp. cant wait to squeeze more power out of the beast. (alright)

Excellent, we'll be sure to let you guys know asap when we get the PnP connectors!

Jordan

RevLimitLaunch · Feb 2, 2007

besides a base map, will it be self tuneable? and if so, what will you need for it?

www.cp-e.com · Feb 3, 2007

RevLimitLaunch said:
besides a base map, will it be self tuneable? and if so, what will you need for it?

Unfortunately no, no self-tuning feature with this piggyback. All tuning needs to be done manually using at least a wideband O2, and an EGT gauge wouldn't hurt either if you've got one. If you make a wide open throttle run and find that you run lean say, past 4000rpm, then you can add any percentage of fuel you want based on your throttle position, mass air voltage, or boost pressure at 4000rpm and on up (or any other rpm for that matter). Add some fuel and make another run to see if your air/fuel ratio is where you want it to be, and adjust accordingly.

But if you really want the car dialed in and get the most out of it, I'd suggest taking it to a dyno. I think this car could tolerate some more timing, which should make for a nice increase in power, but you really need to know what you're doing since it isn't as straightforward as adjusting the air/fuel ratio is.

Jordan

RevLimitLaunch · Feb 3, 2007

lol sorry, with self-tuning i meant by tuning it myself. but either way you still answered my question? what will you need to tune it? laptop im guessing obviously and a serial cable (i think thats what their called)?

www.cp-e.com · Feb 3, 2007

RevLimitLaunch said:
lol sorry, with self-tuning i meant by tuning it myself. but either way you still answered my question? what will you need to tune it? laptop im guessing obviously and a serial cable (i think thats what their called)?

Hah! Sorry about that (lol2)

You actually don't /need/ a laptop, but it makes the process much faster. Hypothetically you could run the car and make changes on your home computer, but having a laptop makes more sense. But if you are going to use your laptop, you'll need a USB cable to make changes to your tune.

Most tuners use serial cables because they're easier to implement, but most laptops don't even come with serial ports anymore. Plus, if you have any experience using those serial-to-USB adapters, they don't work more often than not. So we went through the extra effort of putting a USB interface on our piggyback so people don't have to dick with adapters.

So, the bare essentials are a laptop and USB cable, but a good wideband is worth its weight in gold in my opinion.

Jordan

spike blue · Feb 3, 2007

www.cp-e.com said:
Actually I've been meaning to post a new thread in the CX7 forum. We'd like to dyno a local front wheel drive CX7 because we believe that the intake made more power than the dyno graphs indicate. We had a lot of issues with the AWD DSC on the dyno, and we tried everything we could to get consistent numbers. The numbers we got are good, but we think with a FWD version with the DSC off would show the true potential of the intake.

But we still have the intake for sale, in fact I think we have about 15 units here, so we should have one ready for you when you place your order. Thanks a lot for understanding our position (drinks)

Jordan

No problem. Jordan i post a thread in the cx-7 forum about the interest of buying cais and some more stuff!!!I hope that can help!!!!(peep)

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