Dark_Phantom
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege5
I'm wanting to take the catalytic converter off my car. Is there much of a performance gain with this mod?
Exhaust Question
- Thread starter Dark_Phantom
- Start date
Black_Protege_5
Member
- :
- Mazda Protege 5
Which one. The precat or main. Either way removing will increase in highend power and some torque. Just gut your precat and its like you have a header.
Dark_Phantom
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege5
Hell I might as well take both of them off if it makes more of a difference. I'm not concerned about emissions because I don't have to get my car inspected. Would taking them off give more of a result?
flat_black
Member
Yes indeedy. Are you racing the car? If so, I'd just go with making up a nice custom exhaust. Start with custom headers, back to a nice, high flowing midpipe, and bend it to a rear exit. =) If you don't have sound restrictions, that is.
Dark_Phantom
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege5
Am I racing the car: not officially. However, I'd like a competitive vehicle on the street. I will confess the guilty pleasure of zipping through traffic on the Interstate... I'm really looking for a little more umph to pass people with, or with which to catch up with other people who pass me quickly (I'm competitive). So, in that sense yes, I'm "racing."
Noise restrictions: I have a bit of a personal issue with noise, just because a lot of people go for the loud-ass exhaust on their four-cylinder, and I was looking into quiet/"silent" exhaust, mainly because I thought I'd be a bit different, and I like different. That, and if I was to be too loud, there is a possibility, however slight around here in Missouri where every other truck has dual pipes that practically rattle their rusted chassis apart, that I would get pulled over and hastled for it.
So, what do you guys think? Disregard trying to be quiet and focus on performance, or can I still get good performance out of removing the catylitics and just getting a high quality quiet/low-tone muffler?
Noise restrictions: I have a bit of a personal issue with noise, just because a lot of people go for the loud-ass exhaust on their four-cylinder, and I was looking into quiet/"silent" exhaust, mainly because I thought I'd be a bit different, and I like different. That, and if I was to be too loud, there is a possibility, however slight around here in Missouri where every other truck has dual pipes that practically rattle their rusted chassis apart, that I would get pulled over and hastled for it.
So, what do you guys think? Disregard trying to be quiet and focus on performance, or can I still get good performance out of removing the catylitics and just getting a high quality quiet/low-tone muffler?
flat_black
Member
Well... Uhm... I can't say I approve exactly of what you're doing. I nearly got cremed the other day on my motorcycle by an Integra who was 'being competitive' with a Mustang. I think a good deal of road racing (Not street racing) would help to get the competitive edge out of you, and make you a more relaxed, safer driver, as well as letting you do what you like to do in a more controlled environment, where you won't squish motorcyclists. =)
Now that the disclaimer is done... I would suggest getting a turbocharger, as they work very well to quiet the exhaust, and go with a straight through exhaust with a single Magnaflow muffler at the end. It'll be loud, oh yes. Make no mistake. It will also smell really bad, throw massive amounts of hydrocarbons out, have disgusting cold-start emissions, and so on and so forth, but it won't be as loud as an N/A car with a fully open exhaust. And you'll get the added benefit of having a good deal of oomph without the additional, more complex work of doing a 'competitive' N/A build.
Now that the disclaimer is done... I would suggest getting a turbocharger, as they work very well to quiet the exhaust, and go with a straight through exhaust with a single Magnaflow muffler at the end. It'll be loud, oh yes. Make no mistake. It will also smell really bad, throw massive amounts of hydrocarbons out, have disgusting cold-start emissions, and so on and so forth, but it won't be as loud as an N/A car with a fully open exhaust. And you'll get the added benefit of having a good deal of oomph without the additional, more complex work of doing a 'competitive' N/A build.
i agree with flat_black. If you want real hp gains, forced induction is the way to go.
If not turbo, a header is a great way to gain hp. It removes the first cat. It was the biggest hp gain I received based of my 1974 butt dyno. I could feel the accelleration better. i also have one of the best exhausts on the market, the Racing Beat cat-back system. It is over $500 shipped direct from RacingBeat, but I can hook you up with Street unit if interested. The biggest thing about it, is the noise. No droning sound that will make you go insane on the freeway like most of the other exhausts, a finished look, too. With the header, it is still pretty quiet.
then there is a midpipe, which replaces the 2nd cat. That will make your car really loud, but have even more gains. I know 2 people with them, both took them off their cars because the noise. 1 got a noise ticket because of it, too.
here is an older video/sound clip of my exhaust. I had leaking gaskets at the midpipe and exleback connections, so the popping you hear was because of that. i have since replaced the gaskets, and the popping is gone now. I am just too lazy to redo the video.
edit: and also, street racing is stupid, aggressive driving is too. kills people every year. so don't do it. But anyways...above is a NA exhaust upgrade to help some performance.
If not turbo, a header is a great way to gain hp. It removes the first cat. It was the biggest hp gain I received based of my 1974 butt dyno. I could feel the accelleration better. i also have one of the best exhausts on the market, the Racing Beat cat-back system. It is over $500 shipped direct from RacingBeat, but I can hook you up with Street unit if interested. The biggest thing about it, is the noise. No droning sound that will make you go insane on the freeway like most of the other exhausts, a finished look, too. With the header, it is still pretty quiet.
then there is a midpipe, which replaces the 2nd cat. That will make your car really loud, but have even more gains. I know 2 people with them, both took them off their cars because the noise. 1 got a noise ticket because of it, too.
here is an older video/sound clip of my exhaust. I had leaking gaskets at the midpipe and exleback connections, so the popping you hear was because of that. i have since replaced the gaskets, and the popping is gone now. I am just too lazy to redo the video.
edit: and also, street racing is stupid, aggressive driving is too. kills people every year. so don't do it. But anyways...above is a NA exhaust upgrade to help some performance.
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flat_black
Member
You certainly can build real power, N/A, it just takes quite a bit of work. =) I imagine you're not a terribly patient person by your post. Accordingly, turbo would be more instant gratification.
Dark_Phantom said:
So in other words you are an aggressive driver that makes the roads less safe for the rest of us. If those reasons are why you want a "performance gain" then spare the world. Also, if you wanted a "competitive vehicle on the street" the P5 was the wrong choice.
Dark_Phantom
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege5
Tasty said:
Yup, you caught me. I'm an aggressive driver that makes the roads less safe for the rest of you all... This is an Internet board that focuses on the modification of the Protege5, most of said modifications being for performance sake, true? Now I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and assume that one of the reasons at least half the people on this board are in fact using it is because they either already have, or intend to modify their street vehicle in some fashion... It's probably not to make it slower, and probably not for their professional racing career on the side, either, especially considering that the P5 would be the "wrong choice" for such an application.
I am regrettably sorry for being honest about my occassional decision to go fast when I deem it appropriate and not a significant risk, be it because there is no one else on the road, or because a jerk decided to fly by me going 90 and I feel like going fast, too. And call me crazy for enjoying it a bit when said opportunities arrise. I'm sorry, though. I don't know what I was thinking... I will be sure to lie in future posts and pretend I'm just modifying my car so it will look prettier holding the floor down in a storage unit, somewhere.
Street racing, aggressive driving, whatever you want to call it is juvenile and pointless. Take it to the track.
Also, removing the cat will simply make your car smell bad and will only get you 1-2 hp. Go ahead and try it. You're just wasting your time and making life on this planet worse for everyone.
If you have a daily driver, just get a hi-flow cat and call it a day.
And don't talk about street racing anymore. All your posts will start getting ignored if you don't just simply get banned.
Eric
Also, removing the cat will simply make your car smell bad and will only get you 1-2 hp. Go ahead and try it. You're just wasting your time and making life on this planet worse for everyone.
If you have a daily driver, just get a hi-flow cat and call it a day.
And don't talk about street racing anymore. All your posts will start getting ignored if you don't just simply get banned.
Eric
- :
- -- 03 P5 / 23 CX-5 --
So are all of the people you pass doing 90 to pass the guy who past you doing 90 just supposed to ignore it or is everybody who gets passed by someone doing 90 obligated to do the same because they are "competitive" too? That's some ****** up gay logic. Just because someone else has some reason to go 90 isn't some sort of personal attack on you to retaliate against. There's a cold slab & a toe tag waiting for you at the morgue after you crash or get shot for ******* with other people for no reason. Get a badge & some flashing lights if you want to **** with people doing 90 if it offends you that much.
The whole street racing discussion aside, I wouldn't bother with removing cats. Our environment is bad enough, might as well keep your car clean. You will not notice the 1-2HP performance gain, trust me. If you want, go ahead an get a header. As long as you keep your primary cat (the one on the midpipe) you'll only have cold start emissions issues, as from what I have read the reason for the pre-cat is to be really close to the engine so that the exhaust gasses heat it up quickly so that it can work.
As the others have said though, NA mods really don't get you very far with this car unless you have a lot of knowledge and can do things like design custom cams, pistons, rods, etc. My car feels a lot less underpowered with the NA mods I have done though. If you are looking to start with exhaust I recommend working from the back forward. Start with a catback, then the MAM catted midpipe and then a header (I would advise against the Ractive header though, iffy fitment).
And you can get decent performance (at least in terms of what our engine can give with just NA mods) without getting all that loud. I have a ractive header, MAM catted midpipe, and the racing beat catback and it's really not too bad. On the highway it is surprisingly quiet. It seems to be loud at low RPMs and high RPMs but not so much at the range that our car is at on the highway.
As the others have said though, NA mods really don't get you very far with this car unless you have a lot of knowledge and can do things like design custom cams, pistons, rods, etc. My car feels a lot less underpowered with the NA mods I have done though. If you are looking to start with exhaust I recommend working from the back forward. Start with a catback, then the MAM catted midpipe and then a header (I would advise against the Ractive header though, iffy fitment).
And you can get decent performance (at least in terms of what our engine can give with just NA mods) without getting all that loud. I have a ractive header, MAM catted midpipe, and the racing beat catback and it's really not too bad. On the highway it is surprisingly quiet. It seems to be loud at low RPMs and high RPMs but not so much at the range that our car is at on the highway.
Dark_Phantom
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege5
To those of you who have answered the question, I appreciate it. I'll just focus on the muffler and not worry about the catalytic converters.
To others, I will say that I honestly appreciate the feedback, albeit slightly irritating. The points of forums in general are the sharing of information and of opinions, and so I will respect your rights to contribute what you have as you have respected my right to contribute what I have.
That said, the opinion of one person rarely changes the opinion of another, and I don't expect you guys to do any better of a job understanding my perspective than I have understanding yours, primarily because I haven't taken the time to go into detail about the conditions under which I decide to speed with a person, or the conditions under which I decide to take off with someone at a stoplight. Though I doubt those details will make much difference, I will contribute them anyway, and then I am done. If I am going to be chastised for something, however, I prefer it to be what I am actually doing.
Do I make it a goal to pass the person who flies by me? No, but if I feel like it, I make it a goal to speed up and go 90 behind them and trace their path unless they are driving in a manner I don't feel comfortable duplicating (i.e. if they are simply going straight down the left lane vs. changing lanes every five seconds cutting people off). Regarding stoplights, there are a lot of underdeveloped rural areas around here with one stoplight and a long stretch of road. The only things to worry about in such places are deer, and that's my deal if such a thing happens.
So criticize me if you must.
Now back to exhaust: is the Racing Beat really the best system, and will it make much of a difference whether I go cat-back vs. muffler only?
To others, I will say that I honestly appreciate the feedback, albeit slightly irritating. The points of forums in general are the sharing of information and of opinions, and so I will respect your rights to contribute what you have as you have respected my right to contribute what I have.
That said, the opinion of one person rarely changes the opinion of another, and I don't expect you guys to do any better of a job understanding my perspective than I have understanding yours, primarily because I haven't taken the time to go into detail about the conditions under which I decide to speed with a person, or the conditions under which I decide to take off with someone at a stoplight. Though I doubt those details will make much difference, I will contribute them anyway, and then I am done. If I am going to be chastised for something, however, I prefer it to be what I am actually doing.
Do I make it a goal to pass the person who flies by me? No, but if I feel like it, I make it a goal to speed up and go 90 behind them and trace their path unless they are driving in a manner I don't feel comfortable duplicating (i.e. if they are simply going straight down the left lane vs. changing lanes every five seconds cutting people off). Regarding stoplights, there are a lot of underdeveloped rural areas around here with one stoplight and a long stretch of road. The only things to worry about in such places are deer, and that's my deal if such a thing happens.
So criticize me if you must.
Now back to exhaust: is the Racing Beat really the best system, and will it make much of a difference whether I go cat-back vs. muffler only?
There is no racing beat "muffler only" option for the Protege5, and yes it would make a difference. Just a muffler (commonly referred to as an "axleback" on here) will make your car louder, but that is about it. I think that the biggest restrictions in our exhaust flow is the midpipe (the pipe between the header and the cat-back) judging by looking at my stock one after I took it out. The pipe gets TINY when it bends up to go over the front suspension lower chassis brace, and it has the sorta restrictive (I guess) stock cat.
Sadly though, unless you do take your car to the track you won't notice any huge improvements with performance mods to this car if you do them over time like I did. I'd have to drive a stock protege to really be able to say that it is faster now. I know it sounds a lot faster and continues to look fast, but aside from maybe just a changed throttle response I have no clue. Going to a dyno after installing mods is the best way to see what the mod gave you.
Sadly though, unless you do take your car to the track you won't notice any huge improvements with performance mods to this car if you do them over time like I did. I'd have to drive a stock protege to really be able to say that it is faster now. I know it sounds a lot faster and continues to look fast, but aside from maybe just a changed throttle response I have no clue. Going to a dyno after installing mods is the best way to see what the mod gave you.
Geez, you guys are harsh. I really find it hard to believe you are all members of a forum that focuses on modding cars and you have never gotten an agressive urge on the road. Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think he was talking about street racing, I think he just likes to get on it sometimes for fun.
To the point of the topic, there is quite a bit of restriction with our stock exhuast. A full exhaust system will definantly help out but everything is relative. You won't rocket around if you do the exhaust but you will definantly feel more power. Be aware, if you go to a muffler shop they are not legally allowed to make you a catless midpipe so you will have to buy one from MAM or something like that.
To the point of the topic, there is quite a bit of restriction with our stock exhuast. A full exhaust system will definantly help out but everything is relative. You won't rocket around if you do the exhaust but you will definantly feel more power. Be aware, if you go to a muffler shop they are not legally allowed to make you a catless midpipe so you will have to buy one from MAM or something like that.
I think you are probably right about him just wanting to "get on it sometimes for fun". That is why I tried to be helpful.
RaiderMP5.. you can get it cheaper than from NSNmotorsports? I think it is 379.99 or something close to that from them. I thought that was an amazing deal because I paid 500 shipped ordering it directly from Racing Beat (took 2-3 weeks to come in).
RaiderMP5.. you can get it cheaper than from NSNmotorsports? I think it is 379.99 or something close to that from them. I thought that was an amazing deal because I paid 500 shipped ordering it directly from Racing Beat (took 2-3 weeks to come in).
