We've had some nagging problems the past few weeks with the P5 like a knocking in the front end over rough roads, a weird "growling" under acceleration, and a bad case of clutch shudder unless you rev the piss out of the engine.
I decided to install a new Mazda clutch and pressure plate along with anything else I found while taking the transmission out. While doing the work, I noticed I had a leaky front strut and two bad engine mounts (front and rear). I bought a set of Tokico Illumina struts and a set of AWR front and rear mounts (88 durometer). I ordered the MSP clutch disk and pressure plate using the part numbers I got off of the Protege FAQ. I've read some debate on whether or not the clutch disk is the same. I can tell you that mine was indeed different. My stock clutch disk had 4 damper springs (really rubber pieces), and the MSP disk had 6 damper springs. The friction material looked the same. The pressure plate *looked* different but the pedal pressure feels the same. I also had the stock flywheel resurfaced.
All said and done, I installed a Mazda pressure plate, clutch disk, release bearing, pilot bearing, front lower control arm bushings, front wheel bearings, and a few misc bolts. Aftermarket parts installed were AWR F&R mounts and Tokico struts.
Install notes:
I ended up dropping the subframe to install the rear mount. That made the rear mount install supremely easy. The front mount is cake, as most of you know.
The rear struts are a real PITA. The interior needs to come apart, which isn't difficult but it seems to double the install time. With a good spring compressor, swapping the springs and spring caps to the Tokico struts was easy.
If you buy the MSP clutch disk and pressure plate, you'll need a clutch alignment tool. I machined my own on my lathe, and I also made an install tool for the pilot bearing. Fortunately the bearing is tapered on each side so it installs very easily.
The rear bushings on the front lower control arms on my P5 were shot. I'm not sure what the deal was, but they were bad on both sides. Again, I had to make dies for my press to R&R the bushings, but they came out and installed fairly easily.
The transmission R&R was fairly straightforward, but an over the fender engine support really made things go more smoothly. I used to just use a jack to support the engine, and with an over the fender engine support, there's so much more room to maneuver under the car that the removal and reinstallation seem to go much quicker.
My front wheel bearings on both sides where siezed to the hub. The inner c-clip was destroyed when I pressed the hubs out. If you do wheel bearings, it's advisable to pick up a spare set of bearing retaining clips. I've never had that happen before on all the Honda wheel bearings I've done. Also, the P5 knuckles don't have a good flat surface on them, so you have to improvise with what you have. I was able to press one out without a scratch on the upright. On the other, I mangled up the splash shield a bit. My bearings were actually rusted on the inside and the hub did not spin smoothly when I removed the driveshafts. After the install, the hubs spun smooth as silk.
Also during the removal of the transmission, I found the source of the clunking. It seems that the engine mounts were in such bad shape that the engine was sagging enough that the transmission was actually hitting the cross bar that runs between the front and rear subframes where the front engine mount is attached. There was clear evidence of contact on both the transmission casing and the cross bar.
Overall impressions:
The engine mounts have to go. The 88s are way too stiff, and there's way too much NVH at idle. On the highway or moving over 5 MPH it's not too bad, but not what I'd want in my daily car. At idle it's almost as bad as my track car!! I ordered a set of 70 inserts, so we'll see if that helps any. It seems to be mostly the rear mount, as I removed the front mount completely, started the car, and it was almost as bad. I also am not sure if the rear mount pushes the engine more forward than the stock mount, as the front mount (AWR or stock) do not line up when bolted in. I had to slot the rear bolt hole in the cross bar to get everything to line up correctly.
The Tokico struts are amazing! Even with stock springs, the ride is firmer, but more controlled. I am really happy with the struts.
The MSP clutch disk and pressure plate are perfect. They were actually cheaper than the P5 pieces, and the pedal pressure is almost the same as stock. I'd highly recommend those pieces.
As for all the noises, they're all gone, so at least that part has been taken care of. Now I need to do something with the engine mounts to cure this NVH problem! (thumb)
I decided to install a new Mazda clutch and pressure plate along with anything else I found while taking the transmission out. While doing the work, I noticed I had a leaky front strut and two bad engine mounts (front and rear). I bought a set of Tokico Illumina struts and a set of AWR front and rear mounts (88 durometer). I ordered the MSP clutch disk and pressure plate using the part numbers I got off of the Protege FAQ. I've read some debate on whether or not the clutch disk is the same. I can tell you that mine was indeed different. My stock clutch disk had 4 damper springs (really rubber pieces), and the MSP disk had 6 damper springs. The friction material looked the same. The pressure plate *looked* different but the pedal pressure feels the same. I also had the stock flywheel resurfaced.
All said and done, I installed a Mazda pressure plate, clutch disk, release bearing, pilot bearing, front lower control arm bushings, front wheel bearings, and a few misc bolts. Aftermarket parts installed were AWR F&R mounts and Tokico struts.
Install notes:
I ended up dropping the subframe to install the rear mount. That made the rear mount install supremely easy. The front mount is cake, as most of you know.
The rear struts are a real PITA. The interior needs to come apart, which isn't difficult but it seems to double the install time. With a good spring compressor, swapping the springs and spring caps to the Tokico struts was easy.
If you buy the MSP clutch disk and pressure plate, you'll need a clutch alignment tool. I machined my own on my lathe, and I also made an install tool for the pilot bearing. Fortunately the bearing is tapered on each side so it installs very easily.
The rear bushings on the front lower control arms on my P5 were shot. I'm not sure what the deal was, but they were bad on both sides. Again, I had to make dies for my press to R&R the bushings, but they came out and installed fairly easily.
The transmission R&R was fairly straightforward, but an over the fender engine support really made things go more smoothly. I used to just use a jack to support the engine, and with an over the fender engine support, there's so much more room to maneuver under the car that the removal and reinstallation seem to go much quicker.
My front wheel bearings on both sides where siezed to the hub. The inner c-clip was destroyed when I pressed the hubs out. If you do wheel bearings, it's advisable to pick up a spare set of bearing retaining clips. I've never had that happen before on all the Honda wheel bearings I've done. Also, the P5 knuckles don't have a good flat surface on them, so you have to improvise with what you have. I was able to press one out without a scratch on the upright. On the other, I mangled up the splash shield a bit. My bearings were actually rusted on the inside and the hub did not spin smoothly when I removed the driveshafts. After the install, the hubs spun smooth as silk.
Also during the removal of the transmission, I found the source of the clunking. It seems that the engine mounts were in such bad shape that the engine was sagging enough that the transmission was actually hitting the cross bar that runs between the front and rear subframes where the front engine mount is attached. There was clear evidence of contact on both the transmission casing and the cross bar.
Overall impressions:
The engine mounts have to go. The 88s are way too stiff, and there's way too much NVH at idle. On the highway or moving over 5 MPH it's not too bad, but not what I'd want in my daily car. At idle it's almost as bad as my track car!! I ordered a set of 70 inserts, so we'll see if that helps any. It seems to be mostly the rear mount, as I removed the front mount completely, started the car, and it was almost as bad. I also am not sure if the rear mount pushes the engine more forward than the stock mount, as the front mount (AWR or stock) do not line up when bolted in. I had to slot the rear bolt hole in the cross bar to get everything to line up correctly.
The Tokico struts are amazing! Even with stock springs, the ride is firmer, but more controlled. I am really happy with the struts.
The MSP clutch disk and pressure plate are perfect. They were actually cheaper than the P5 pieces, and the pedal pressure is almost the same as stock. I'd highly recommend those pieces.
As for all the noises, they're all gone, so at least that part has been taken care of. Now I need to do something with the engine mounts to cure this NVH problem! (thumb)
