AFC-SplitSecond PSC1 Map Library

genius said:
It's an update to mine? The reason I ask is because he/shhe is using a very similiar setup but it didn't mention the MAF being relocated.

If it is, may I ask what they did different?
I don't think is an update to yours, I think is an update to the supermap using wideband logging with similar mods to the ones you have.
 
lcruz64 said:
I don't think is an update to yours, I think is an update to the supermap using wideband logging with similar mods to the ones you have.

interesting, I think I will paste them over to excel, let's see how close we are...
 
lcruz64 said:
New map added.

Alrighty...

I am attaching the comparison below...

I don't know miltont, I am sure he is a great guy, and I am sure he is wise beyond his years. If I saw him in a bar, I would probably buy him a drink.

But his map... It is really really lean and he left the upper half of the map to the "fates". I saw his AFR's and he hit about the same curve mine hits. He is showing a log as proof so I have to trust him although it looks like he is only running stock boost.

Either, something is jacked up in his WB software or this proves once and for all that the MAF position really affects the way the car drives.

See for yourself and let me know what you guys think.
 

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  • comparison.xls
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From what I gathered relocation will make you run rich.
genius said:
Alrighty...

I am attaching the comparison below...

I don't know miltont, I am sure he is a great guy, and I am sure he is wise beyond his years. If I saw him in a bar, I would probably buy him a drink.

But his map... It is really really lean and he left the upper half of the map to the "fates". I saw his AFR's and he hit about the same curve mine hits. He is showing a log as proof so I have to trust him although it looks like he is only running stock boost.

Either, something is jacked up in his WB software or this proves once and for all that the MAF position really affects the way the car drives.

See for yourself and let me know what you guys think.
 
lcruz64 said:
From what I gathered relocation will make you run rich.

This had been discussed quite a bit. The consensus being either no affect to lean.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2185657#post2185657

I know it did for me because after I moved it, my A/F meter started switching between rich lean even under boost. In theold location, it was always just rich without even a thought of flashing a red LED.

But aside from that, if we both are running the same AFR's then that excel sheet should prove the theory out. Look how much he had to compensate compared to mine?
 
If he's running richer settings than you are on the AFC that means that when you relocated the MAF it made it run rich so your AFC settings should be leaner.
4500 RPMs
6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 PSI

9.4 9.4 9.3 9.3 9.3 kelly 2 (Relocated MAF)
9.5 9.5 9.4 9.4 9.4 Custom 1 (Stock MAF)
0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 Diference


genius said:
This had been discussed quite a bit. The consensus being either no affect to lean.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2185657#post2185657

I know it did for me because after I moved it, my A/F meter started switching between rich lean even under boost. In theold location, it was always just rich without even a thought of flashing a red LED.

But aside from that, if we both are running the same AFR's then that excel sheet should prove the theory out. Look how much he had to compensate compared to mine?
 
lcruz64 said:
If he's running richer settings than you are on the AFC that means that when you relocated the MAF it made it run rich so your AFC settings should be leaner.
4500 RPMs
6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 PSI

9.4 9.4 9.3 9.3 9.3 kelly 2 (Relocated MAF)
9.5 9.5 9.4 9.4 9.4 Custom 1 (Stock MAF)
0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 Diference

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 217pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="289"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="103"> <col style="width: 92pt;" width="122"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 77pt;" height="17" width="103">Kelly 2 @ 6 psi</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 92pt;" width="122">Custom 1 @ 6 psi</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64">"-" = Lean</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B2-A2" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B3-A3" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B4-A4" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B5-A5" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B6-A6" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B7-A7" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B8-A8" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.5</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.6</td> <td x:num="9.9999999999999645E-2" x:fmla="=B9-A9" align="right">0.1</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.4</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.5</td> <td x:num="9.9999999999999645E-2" x:fmla="=B10-A10" align="right">0.1</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.3</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.5</td> <td x:num="0.19999999999999929" x:fmla="=B11-A11" align="right">0.2</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.5</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.6</td> <td x:num="9.9999999999999645E-2" x:fmla="=B12-A12" align="right">0.1</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.5</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.7</td> <td x:num="0.19999999999999929" x:fmla="=B13-A13" align="right">0.2</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.7</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.7</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B14-A14" align="right">0</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.8</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B15-A15" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.8</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B16-A16" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" height="17">9.8</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="">9.4</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B17-A17" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr></tbody> </table>

Here again at 7 psi

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 217pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="289"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="103"> <col style="width: 92pt;" width="122"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 77pt;" height="17" width="103">Kelly 2 @ 7 psi</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 92pt;" width="122">Custom 1 @ 7 psi</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64">"-" = Lean</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B2-A2" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B3-A3" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B4-A4" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B5-A5" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B6-A6" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B7-A7" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.3</td> <td x:num="-0.39999999999999858" x:fmla="=B8-A8" align="right">-0.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.5</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.5</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B9-A9" align="right">0</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.3</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.4</td> <td x:num="9.9999999999999645E-2" x:fmla="=B10-A10" align="right">0.1</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.3</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.4</td> <td x:num="9.9999999999999645E-2" x:fmla="=B11-A11" align="right">0.1</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.5</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.5</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B12-A12" align="right">0</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.5</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.7</td> <td x:num="0.19999999999999929" x:fmla="=B13-A13" align="right">0.2</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.7</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=B14-A14" align="right">0</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B15-A15" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B16-A16" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="" align="right" height="17">9.7</td> <td x:num="" align="right">9.4</td> <td x:num="-0.29999999999999893" x:fmla="=B17-A17" align="right">-0.3</td> </tr></tbody> </table>
I don't know, one of us is reading this wrong... probably me. Someone want to help us out? In both instances, he did go richer in the middle but I am seeing more -'s than +'s...
 
Whos miltont??? I've been called many things but a "miltont?" Haha. Actually, thats my map and datalog. Somewhere there was a miscommunication. My map is tuned to my car. I boost no more than 7.5 psi thats why all values after that boost level return to 10 (running like afc was not there) Didn't want to be responsible for bogus values and a bad map. I've done various 3rd and 4th gear pulls w/ my zietronix and the datalog shows the same everytime. Ran it -2 degree F this morning and the map stayed the same other than where boost spiked above my normal tuned levels. This is where it will get tough w/ the map library. Everybodies is different. At some point Genius, I'll load your map in my car and datalog it and see what the differences are between our 2 cars, which again will be tough because I'm running stock boost and thge maf in the stock location. Keep the discussion going and oh ya, I'll take that beer, I mean beers!! Peace out,

Miltont aka Fudgie
 
Another thing I was thinking of too: All my testing has been done on the street doing wfo pulls. Where you able to "load" the car w/ the dyno and tune to different boost levels through the rev range? I guess my map is tuned for wfo throttle position, although around the town driveability has not been impaired at the least. Car runs great.
 
Fudgie said:
Whos miltont??? I've been called many things but a "miltont?" Haha. Actually, thats my map and datalog. Somewhere there was a miscommunication. My map is tuned to my car. I boost no more than 7.5 psi thats why all values after that boost level return to 10 (running like afc was not there) Didn't want to be responsible for bogus values and a bad map. I've done various 3rd and 4th gear pulls w/ my zietronix and the datalog shows the same everytime. Ran it -2 degree F this morning and the map stayed the same other than where boost spiked above my normal tuned levels. This is where it will get tough w/ the map library. Everybodies is different. At some point Genius, I'll load your map in my car and datalog it and see what the differences are between our 2 cars, which again will be tough because I'm running stock boost and thge maf in the stock location. Keep the discussion going and oh ya, I'll take that beer, I mean beers!! Peace out,

Miltont aka Fudgie

That is true, every car is different. Perhaps these numbers don't prove a damn thing. In my car I know for a fact that the MAF move leaned it somewhat. Not dangerously, but somewhat. I know that from watching the AF guage and the fact that after two weeks of running, I pulled my plugs and they were burning considerably hotter than before. Clean as a whistle to say the least.

BTW, attention all forum members: Fudgie is now and forever known as Milton.
 
(boom07) I'll get it fixed.

Fudgie said:
Whos miltont??? I've been called many things but a "miltont?" Haha. Actually, thats my map and datalog. Somewhere there was a miscommunication. My map is tuned to my car. I boost no more than 7.5 psi thats why all values after that boost level return to 10 (running like afc was not there) Didn't want to be responsible for bogus values and a bad map. I've done various 3rd and 4th gear pulls w/ my zietronix and the datalog shows the same everytime. Ran it -2 degree F this morning and the map stayed the same other than where boost spiked above my normal tuned levels. This is where it will get tough w/ the map library. Everybodies is different. At some point Genius, I'll load your map in my car and datalog it and see what the differences are between our 2 cars, which again will be tough because I'm running stock boost and thge maf in the stock location. Keep the discussion going and oh ya, I'll take that beer, I mean beers!! Peace out,

Miltont aka Fudgie
 
Fudgie said:
Another thing I was thinking of too: All my testing has been done on the street doing wfo pulls. Where you able to "load" the car w/ the dyno and tune to different boost levels through the rev range? I guess my map is tuned for wfo throttle position, although around the town driveability has not been impaired at the least. Car runs great.

Wow it is getting late, what does WFO mean again? No I did not reduce the boost as a matter of fact, we didn't really see the need to, the boost ramps up so quickly it seemed fruitless.

How does your software hook into your car? I hope it doesn't hook up through the PCM port.

BTW, I bought two dogs for the wife and 5 years later, she still wanted a kid!(boom07)
 
Wide ffn open baby! So the dog trick didn't work, huh? Maybe I'll try a cat next. Before you know it, I'll have a petting zoo here. Zietronix wb is its own unit, reading actual 02 voltage through its own bosch sensor.
 
wow guys this thread is good...and has earned the nickname "AFC Bible" in many of the emails we receive for reference. With your guys permission I'm going to add all the maps thus far onto our site and also see about getting this stickied...hehe afterall I do pay vendor fees...on the maf relocation note is will indeed make you run anywhere from 1-3afrs leaner...for those of you asking about logging, lcruz has contacted me and we are working on a new afc that will have wide band o2 logging capabilities...I know you guys are chomping at the bit for these features and I wish we could do it safely overnight, but we want to make sure we get it right before releasing it to you guys. I'd much rather blow up a shop car than run the risk of damaging a customers...as we know more I'll keep everyone updated. And yes we are looking at possible ways to offer trade in upgrades for those who want the new units, but no promises on what will be determined as we still have to wait on final cost numbers before making any decisions...
 
Sounds awesome for the upcomming new afc. i think i might have to sell mine and upgrade when that comes out. that sounds like exactly what i need, because i cant datalog on my wbo2. it's the innovate xd-1/lc-1 kit. you definetely have my premision to put my file on your site.

i think i'm going to hit a dyno local. it's in a couple weeks feb.25 i think. they have an event that day and its $40 for 3 pulls and an a/f printout. after that my car should be almost flawless after tuning it again.
 
Haven't checked this thread in a while, but great, great information. I mean to contribute here shortly. First, I need to get my hands on a cheap PC laptop since I haven't been able to figure out how to connect this to the R4 software or the Zeitronix software running under Windows 2000 on my Mac laptop in Virtual PC. Second, I plan to take several of these maps to the dyno and verify their tunes there as soon as my replacement MAM manifold arrives (should be arriving in a week or so).

Keep up the great work guys. I'll keep you informed.

R
 

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