Sub powering help

FoxPro5 · Aug 3, 2005

I currently have a 10" Infinity Perfect SVC powered by the rear channels of the 4 channel amp that also runs my rear speakers. It has handled the 450 watts RMS very well.

I am going to sell the 4 channel and just run the rears of the HU and by a 2 channel and bridge it to the sub. I'm looking at...

Eclipse PA6213 (1000 watts RMS at 4 ohm)
MB Quart Reference 2400 (800 watts RMS at 4 ohm) only $250 @Crutchfield
Rockford Power 851s (850 watts RMS at 4 ohm)
Kicker KX850.2 (850 watts RMS at 4 ohm)

My questions are...
1) Is 800-1000 watts RMS too much power for my sub (it's rated at 350 watts continuous)?

2) Which amp would be the best bet for my situation? I'm leaning towards the Quart because of the price, but I don't know anything about it. My second choice is the Eclipse because I already have one and it's been outstanding.

3) Would you suggest that I look for different/better sub that can handle that amount of power? If yes, which one (must be 10" and comfortable in .6 cu ft sealed box). Then, should I worry about trying to match up the power with the manufacturers specs on the voice coils. In other words, should I be looking for a 2x4 ohm DVC wired in parallel so that the amp sees a 2 ohm load, or a 2x2 DVC wired in series so that the amp sees a 4 ohm load???? I think I have this right(boom06)

Hopfully I haven't throughly confused you guys here. I'm sure I'm not the first ignorant soul to find this damn confusing(stoned)

Thanks in advance!

1sty · Aug 3, 2005

IF you like your sub, then why swap it out just to have to buy a new amp?
Eclispe doesn't make that good of a sub amp, its just not something they do well.
I can understand the MB amp becuase of the price, but why bother with an over powering amp in the others case?
I would stick to a 2 channel amp that is around 400-500 rms when bridged so that you aren't spending money you don't need too.

The extra power would be nice if you upgrade but if you upgrade to a 2 ohm sub box or sub, the 2 channel amp will become useless and you will have to get a mono amp at that time.

00zmde · Aug 3, 2005

FoxPro5 said:
I currently have a 10" Infinity Perfect SVC powered by the rear channels of the 4 channel amp that also runs my rear speakers. It has handled the 450 watts RMS very well.

I am going to sell the 4 channel and just run the rears of the HU and by a 2 channel and bridge it to the sub. I'm looking at...

Eclipse PA6213 (1000 watts RMS at 4 ohm)
MB Quart Reference 2400 (800 watts RMS at 4 ohm) only $250 @Crutchfield
Rockford Power 851s (850 watts RMS at 4 ohm)
Kicker KX850.2 (850 watts RMS at 4 ohm)

My questions are...
1) Is 800-1000 watts RMS too much power for my sub (it's rated at 350 watts continuous)?

2) Which amp would be the best bet for my situation? I'm leaning towards the Quart because of the price, but I don't know anything about it. My second choice is the Eclipse because I already have one and it's been outstanding.

3) Would you suggest that I look for different/better sub that can handle that amount of power? If yes, which one (must be 10" and comfortable in .6 cu ft sealed box). Then, should I worry about trying to match up the power with the manufacturers specs on the voice coils. In other words, should I be looking for a 2x4 ohm DVC wired in parallel so that the amp sees a 2 ohm load, or a 2x2 DVC wired in series so that the amp sees a 4 ohm load???? I think I have this right(boom06)

Hopfully I haven't throughly confused you guys here. I'm sure I'm not the first ignorant soul to find this damn confusing(stoned)

Thanks in advance!

1)Yes, thats too much power. I ran 850 rms to the same sub in a bandpass and it went up in smoke. 400 rms is good. Seems like you already have that taken care of.

2)If you are keeping the sub and dont plan on adding more subs I would look at a smaller amp. Whatever you choose for a sub figure on atleast matching the subs rms power.

3)Are you not happy with your sound? Are you trying to free up more space?What is your goal?

1sty · Aug 3, 2005

00zmde said:
1)Yes, thats too much power. I ran 850 rms to the same sub in a bandpass and it went up in smoke. 400 rms is good. Seems like you already have that taken care of.

2)If you are keeping the sub and dont plan on adding more subs I would look at a smaller amp. Whatever you choose for a sub figure on atleast matching the subs rms power.

3)Are you not happy with your sound? Are you trying to free up more space?What is your goal?

1) thats becuase it was bandpass and you over drove it. Its impossbile to hear the distortion of most subs when they are in a bandpass box which is why that type of box is the most common to claim a sub. Plus it is often the least likely box to be built for the sub as most people just dump any sub in a prefab bandpass box. This is never a good idea.

2) I have to slightly disagree. If possible it is always better to over power the sub or atleast have a more powerful amp then it needs which will allow for someone to set the amp lower and have it last longer and potential sound better. As an example, in my work ( pro AV design) we always select an amplifier that is about 30% more powerful then the speakers connected to it actualy need.

3) Great questions.

FoxPro5 · Aug 4, 2005

1sty said:
1) thats becuase it was bandpass and you over drove it. Its impossbile to hear the distortion of most subs when they are in a bandpass box which is why that type of box is the most common to claim a sub. Plus it is often the least likely box to be built for the sub as most people just dump any sub in a prefab bandpass box. This is never a good idea.

2) I have to slightly disagree. If possible it is always better to over power the sub or atleast have a more powerful amp then it needs which will allow for someone to set the amp lower and have it last longer and potential sound better. As an example, in my work ( pro AV design) we always select an amplifier that is about 30% more powerful then the speakers connected to it actualy need.

3) Great questions.

Thanks for your replies. Yes I'm happy with my current sound and I don't wan't to upgrade my sub. My question was specific to matching the recommended power to the output from the amp. I want to get rid of the amp that is currently running my rears and my sub and just get a sub amp. So I was curious if I was biting off more than I can chew by overpowering my sub buy 450 watts. My gut instinct here says that I'm not, but that's why I turned to my buddies (cheers) on the forum to help me figure it out.

I was told that I could run up to 1000 watts to my sub if I did it properly and it would do just fine. This advise comes from someone who's 1) what I consider an expert and 2) someone who has done it himself.

1sty, you said that you typically add 30% over the recommeded power for any given speaker. Would a sub be any different? Why 30%?

1sty · Aug 4, 2005

30% is what we use as a safety in designing large audio systems. This is in my day time job as a Audio Visual System designer. So if I have a room with 10 speakers tapping 70 volts and I want them all tapped at 15 watts, then I get an amp that is 180-200 watts instead of the 150. This allows for the amp to operate easier longer and for better overall quality.

Most speakers I have owned have handled up tp 200% of there recommended power. Subs too. I have powered 4 JL 8 W3's with a Jl 1000/1 which puts out twice what those subs need. I put 200 watts rms into a set of 5.25" MB Quart Refernce components that were rated at 50 watts rms and I have used a JL 300/2 on a pair of JL VR components and XR components. Non of thesespeakers have ever blown and I listen to my music LOUD. But I have a good ear for distortion so I knwo when the system is at its limits.

1clean03protege · Aug 5, 2005

FoxPro5 said:
Thanks for your replies. Yes I'm happy with my current sound and I don't wan't to upgrade my sub. My question was specific to matching the recommended power to the output from the amp. I want to get rid of the amp that is currently running my rears and my sub and just get a sub amp. So I was curious if I was biting off more than I can chew by overpowering my sub buy 450 watts. My gut instinct here says that I'm not, but that's why I turned to my buddies (cheers) on the forum to help me figure it out.

I was told that I could run up to 1000 watts to my sub if I did it properly and it would do just fine. This advise comes from someone who's 1) what I consider an expert and 2) someone who has done it himself.

1sty, you said that you typically add 30% over the recommeded power for any given speaker. Would a sub be any different? Why 30%?

running more power doesn't always mean that your gonna get more output from the sub. Running 1000 watts to it is all great and dandy but unless your planning on getting a mean ass sub after you blow that sub, it's almost pointless IMO to give it that much power unless you do plan on upgrading the sub later. I'm all for overpowering subs, becuase if the gain is set correclty with a oscope or meter you can't go wrong but not every sub mechanically or thermally can handle for a long period of time. Distortion and Heat kill subs

FoxPro5 · Aug 5, 2005

1clean03protege said:
running more power doesn't always mean that your gonna get more output from the sub. Running 1000 watts to it is all great and dandy but unless your planning on getting a mean ass sub after you blow that sub, it's almost pointless IMO to give it that much power unless you do plan on upgrading the sub later. I'm all for overpowering subs, becuase if the gain is set correclty with a oscope or meter you can't go wrong but not every sub mechanically or thermally can handle for a long period of time. Distortion and Heat kill subs

I hear ya.

00zmde · Aug 5, 2005

You are absolutely correct. I over powered my sub. I could not hear the distotion and have no self control. Thanks to the three year warranty.
They let me keep my sub, which I repaired and they sent me a brand new one. Hell yeah!!!!!

I am far from professional being that The band pass I built sounded like crap. Thats why I turned the gain up. Woops.

Its real easy to turn the gain up. The reason I stated too much power and asked what your plans are because, more power more money. If you dont need it and arent going to use it, its wasted money

1sty · Aug 5, 2005

Unless you get it for a kick ass deal and plan to upgrade in the future anyways. Otherwise I agree fully.

FoxPro5 · Aug 5, 2005

"Unless you get it for a kick ass deal..."

I did! Well long story short, I got my sub for free so that gives me more capital to expand my whole system.

"I could not hear the distotion and have no self control."

So what it comes down to, basically, is that it's not necessarly that too much power is "bad," it's what you do with it that makes it " bad."

1sty · Aug 5, 2005

FoxPro5 said:
So what it comes down to, basically, is that it's not necessarly that too much power is "bad," it's what you do with it that makes it " bad."

Correct.
Just becuase you have that much extra power, does not mean you have to use it. In fact after a certain level, the power becomes wasted as the sub is already fully driven and the added power does nothing.

Also, in his case, he was using a bandpass box. A band pass box is deisgned so that only a narrow range of sound escapes it but this increases the output of the box. Sounds of distortion is not in that range so the sub is dying an you never hear it.

FoxPro5 · Aug 6, 2005

1sty said:
...after a certain level, the power becomes wasted as the sub is already fully driven and the added power does nothing.

So in your experience, 1sty, were is this level and how do you find it? I mean are we talking physics here or economics?
Thanks!!

1clean03protege · Aug 6, 2005

depends on the the sub, (EXAMPLE)a w7 or XXX can take 4-500watts(even more) more the suggested RMS wattage and can thermally and mechanically handle it with no problem and will get louder, (EXAMPLE)While a sony xplode or a alpine type E might only be able to handle 40 watts more the suggested RMS wattage before it will get sloppy and the heatsink starts to fail etc etc. Also the enclosure has more to do with how loud a sub can get more so in my opinion then wattage does. i've built enclosures for customers that will kill more elaborate systems with 2x's the power. I crappy box can make a $1000 sub sound like a $40 Pyramid sub

Sub powering help

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