Car Leasing vs Financing

I forgot to ask. Can you explain what you mean by some brand have more restricted lease ? I am not familiar with the difference in flexibility some brand offer over the others.
Some companies don't allow you to return/sell a leased car other than to a dealer for the same make. Examples include Acura, BMW, Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, and Nissan. This was especially important during the Pandemic when lots of leased cars were worth much more than the buyout price at any given time!

Equityhackr (via Leasehackr) allows you to sell your restricted leased car to them via their vast network of independent dealers. This was a big deal back when you had lots of equity and couldn't take advantage at Carvana, Vroom, Carmax, etc!
 
Last edited:
Which is why you have to save up until you do. I haven't made a car payment since 1999. I learned the hard way that instant gratification inevitably leads to disaster.

I cannot tell you how BROKE we really were. 3 months behind on the mortgage. Getting our lights and water cut off. Not even having enough money to buy my son a Popsicle. (Yes that really happened). When I couldn't buy that Popsicle, that was the last straw. I knew things had to change.

Now, because I learned to stick to a strict budget and delay gratification, I live debt free. I went from being 3 months behind on my mortgage on a 1400 SQ ft. house that only cost $77k, to having a paid off 3100sq ft house on almost 4 acres, completely debt free, and a net worth of $1.2M.

And yes, I LOVE cars. I'm definitely a car guy. I have a 75 C10 short bed with a camed 350 that I'm restoring, a 04 Silverado with only 90k miles, my wife's 12 MZ5, and my 13 CX-5, all of which I bought outright. And lately, I've got my eye on a Porsche 911 which is my absolute dream car. I'm saving up the cash right now, and I should have it by the end of this year.

I could not imagine renting a car and having the possibility of putting myself back in that jackpot. The world always changes, and no one can foresee the future. If something were to happen and God forbid something happens to your company and you lose your job but you owe all of these payments every month, what then? Again, you can't predict these things. When you don't owe anyone anything, you have zero worries.
That's awesome that you were able to recover and thrive after such adversity!
I don't think anyone's debating that financing/paying cash for owning a car over leasing makes much more financial sense. However, everyone's situation is different (some folks learn fiscal responsibility through life lessons and some listen to wisdom from the get go).

One very good reason to lease a car is if you own a small business as you can write-off most business-related costs during tax season!
 
That was a good read, thanks everyone for input into this topic.

@youri Not really sure where you are in Canada and what is the available inventory (new and used) in your area, however, here in GTA, there are plenty of deals to find around, if you are planning to move upmarket, like I did. If you are not keen in getting, lets say a NEW BMW X5, you can go on leasebusters and find a good lease to take over. For example, a 2024 BMW X5 with about 6-9k kms can be had for around $1300+ taxes/month. If you are patient, you can actually find good leasing deals from actual owners or dealers on 2022-2023 yr model with less than 20k km on board.

Like in my case, you can take over a lease that you are comfortable in paying and still have the new car warranty and maintenance and if you want to keep longer, lets say 5-7yrs you can purchase the additional warranty from BMW. In the same time, you can actually lease a used car (under 20k kms) from BMW, typically a 4yr lease, however I did found out the BMW Financial has lower residual value. But, as an example, I could have got a 2023 BMW X5 with 15k kms, almost fully loaded, on a 4yr lease for about $1100+ taxes. So definitely there are options out there, if you are willing to wait and look for the right deal for you.
 
Which is why you have to save up until you do. I haven't made a car payment since 1999. I learned the hard way that instant gratification inevitably leads to disaster.

I could not imagine renting a car and having the possibility of putting myself back in that jackpot. The world always changes, and no one can foresee the future. If something were to happen and God forbid something happens to your company and you lose your job but you owe all of these payments every month, what then? Again, you can't predict these things. When you don't owe anyone anything, you have zero worries.

That's awesome that you were able to recover and thrive after such adversity!
I don't think anyone's debating that financing/paying cash for owning a car over leasing makes much more financial sense. However, everyone's situation is different (some folks learn fiscal responsibility through life lessons and some listen to wisdom from the get go).

Right, that is not the point of this thread, and doesn't help the OP with the question they're asking. Still a great way to approach buying vs. leasing/financing, but not really relevant to the topic at hand. Let's stay on track please!

To clarify the topic, I've updated the title of the thread to car leasing vs. financing.
 
2. try to avoid putting a downpayment on a lease. Because if the car is totaled, the downpayment will be lost.
I am unsure how things work in Canada so please verify before relying on this, however, this is not actually inherently true. The reason most people believe this to be true is because in practice the majority of customers are not in an equitable position in their lease (especially prior to COVID) so when they totaled their leases and the insurance company assigned a value, it typically was at or below the lease payoff amount. If its equal, there is no equity, no one "gains". If its below, most leases included GAP (not all, Mazda, Toyota and Lexus actually are one of the few that do not include GAP for free on leases) so the GAP insurance covers the shortage. However, in rarer instances if the lessees car is actually worth more than the lease payoff at time of total, the insurance company will pay the difference. We see this scenario more often because our client pool is typically getting very discounted deals through us and therefore have lower payoffs on their leases, one of my rep's got a new Grand Cherokee Limited for his wife last year and she totaled it about 6 months after, their payoff was lower than market value so they actually got a check back from insurance for about $2,000, despite it being a lease. With that said, the advice is still sound generally speaking (especially if you are leasing a PHEV/EV or any other greatly depreciating vehicle that will most likely not be equitable).

If you are leasing a BMW M product for example, those can be massively equitable and will likely yield a hefty check back in the event of a total loss. We bought a 22 X5M off lease from a customer a couple of months ago, we paid them $18,000 in equity back for their lease.
By your own admission, not everyone has 30k sitting in the bank or a car w/that equivalent trade-in value!
Yeah I think this debate gets a bit muddied because your situation is not consistent with the average scenario, most people don't have the choice to choose to either put $30k down or save it on a lease - also you specifically set the circumstance as you doing a 3yr/3yr trade cycle with financing so responses were based on this specifically unique scenario.
I forgot to ask. Can you explain what you mean by some brand have more restricted lease ? I am not familiar with the difference in flexibility some brand offer over the others.
This again may be US only, so confirm with Canadian banks, but in the US during COVID most manufacturers started restricting their leases. For example, in 2020 with my BMW M340i I was leasing I traded it into my Mazda dealership and got a Mazda3HB Turbo, they had zero issue buying the lease on trade. Shortly after, BMW set a restriction that ONLY a BMW dealership or the lessee can buy their car, that means they cannot trade their BMW lease in with a Mazda or any other brand dealer, or sell to a company like Carvana/Carmax.
Our company specializes in bypassing these restrictions and are one of the only services that allows you to easily sell a restricted lease like this.

The reason I say Audi and Volvo are badly restricted is because they take it up one notch, we can technically buy Audi still but they instead make 3rd party (non Audi dealers) buyers pay an insane retail based price to buy anyones lease from them, and if an Audi dealer DOES buy the lease they also impose a massive "segment fee" of $400-$800 to the Audi dealer to buy the lease. Their goal was to make sure the bank was getting their cut on the cars off lease and making it prohibitively expensive to other parties so they could get their leases back and capitalize on selling them at auction themselves. Audi is no longer an equitable brand as their values do not hold up nearly as well as BMW, so I am personally cautious of recommending anyone jump into an Audi lease for this reason (if they are ever considering an early exit at least) and recommend BMW since they are more likely to have lease equity.

Volvo gets EVEN WORSE because their rule is ONLY the originating Volvo dealer can buy your lease, not just restricting to Volvo dealers as a whole, but if you leased your Volvo in NY and moved to Cali, then wanted to try to get out of your lease early, the Volvo dealers in Cali can't help, you need to call up your dealer in NY. It's insane and I always caution clients of the Volvo lease commitment before jumping into one.

Lexus is great because they are open to all parties, if you want to sell your Lexus lease to a Lexus dealer, a BMW dealer or Carvana, no worries Lexus will let you be free to do with your lease as you please.
 
Equityhackr (via Leasehackr) allows you to sell your restricted leased car to them via their vast network of independent dealers. This was a big deal back when you had lots of equity and couldn't take advantage at Carvana, Vroom, Carmax, etc!
:) Hi there, that's us! Equityhackr was a program we co-developed with Victoria and Michael (owners of Leasehackr) back in December of 2021 and have been their exclusive partner since. In the very beginning, I was the one personally managing, appraising and quoting every single car that was submitted. Now, we still do manual quoting on every single vehicle submitted, but I've trained and promoted my Acquisitions Director, Alberto, to now manage the program.

If anyone uses Equityhackr, you will be personally interacting with us and I am personally cc'd on all customer replies.


I also personally developed (well I built the formula for valuation, my CTO Chris built the tech) our own Instant Offer tool as well if anyone wants to try it out

 
EWL5 said:
That's awesome that you were able to recover and thrive after such adversity!
I don't think anyone's debating that financing/paying cash for owning a car over leasing makes much more financial sense. However, everyone's situation is different (some folks learn fiscal responsibility through life lessons and some listen to wisdom from the get go).

Correct. I should have been clearer, but that is not the reason I started this thread. I wanted to better understand the nuances of leasing, and try to figure out why the leasing numbers in my calculations were not very advantageous. Agreed financing and keeping a car for a long time is the better financial decision. Maybe I will start a different thread on how I managed to save for that large downpayment (hint, it is by financing and keeping the car for 10 years).

Back to leasing.
 
Last edited:
That was a good read, thanks everyone for input into this topic.

@youri Not really sure where you are in Canada and what is the available inventory (new and used) in your area, however, here in GTA, there are plenty of deals to find around, if you are planning to move upmarket, like I did. If you are not keen in getting, lets say a NEW BMW X5, you can go on leasebusters and find a good lease to take over. For example, a 2024 BMW X5 with about 6-9k kms can be had for around $1300+ taxes/month. If you are patient, you can actually find good leasing deals from actual owners or dealers on 2022-2023 yr model with less than 20k km on board.

I am in Ottawa. My experience with the car market is terrible here. Prices are high and dealers give nothing for trade-in. Thankfully I am within reach of Montreal and the GTA, so I usually buy my cars there. I will take a look at the market in the GTA and see if I can spot one of those deals. Thanks for the tip. I usually buy 2 year old car (financing), so I am quite familiar with that. With those you still have a warranty, and the early quality issues have all already been fixed. It is a sweet spot. I never realized these could be leased though. With a large chunk of the depreciation already gone, I suppose those leases should in theory be a lot cheaper.
 
@Ninja_Matt thanks a lot for the detailed clarification. I didn't know some brands would restrict to the point of only accepting returns at the same dealer ! That is insane.
 
I am in Ottawa. My experience with the car market is terrible here. Prices are high and dealers give nothing for trade-in. Thankfully I am within reach of Montreal and the GTA, so I usually buy my cars there. I will take a look at the market in the GTA and see if I can spot one of those deals. Thanks for the tip. I usually buy 2 year old car (financing), so I am quite familiar with that. With those you still have a warranty, and the early quality issues have all already been fixed. It is a sweet spot. I never realized these could be leased though. With a large chunk of the depreciation already gone, I suppose those leases should in theory be a lot cheaper.
Keep an eye on these guys, they usually have quite a bit of used stock and I think you can bargain with them.

Here is an example:


L8er edit: This is even a better deal than the one above. I wouldn't do it through lease busters, just call BMW Markham.

 
Last edited:
I leased a Tundra for 3 years when gas was $1.25/gal. I put in an extra $3500 so I'd get some back for the next trade. Gas went to $3.85 the year the lease was up and you couldn't give away a big truck. For a year or so (remember I put in extra) it was not worth what was owed on it and I didn't get anything back at turn-in.

I'm not gonna lease again. For a business that needs a toaster for its salesmen, it has a place.

It was not the perfect machine I was told a Toyota would be. I should have kept my Frontier.
 
I leased a Tundra for 3 years when gas was $1.25/gal. I put in an extra $3500 so I'd get some back for the next trade. Gas went to $3.85 the year the lease was up and you couldn't give away a big truck. For a year or so (remember I put in extra) it was not worth what was owed on it and I didn't get anything back at turn-in.

I'm not gonna lease again. For a business that needs a toaster for its salesmen, it has a place.

It was not the perfect machine I was told a Toyota would be. I should have kept my Frontier.
What does extra $3500 mean? Cap cost reduction to lower the lease monthly payments? Security deposits?
 
I put $3500 down over the required ($1000?) down payment so the amount owed would always be less than the the value of the truck so I could avoid gap insurance and have money back at the end of the lease to apply to the next truck.
 
I put $3500 down over the required ($1000?) down payment so the amount owed would always be less than the the value of the truck so I could avoid gap insurance and have money back at the end of the lease to apply to the next truck.
Respectfully, I would recommend against something like this in most scenarios, the $3,500 isn't lost per se since you in turn had a lower monthly payment and saved that money just spread out over the term of the lease. But putting extra cash down on a lease with the intent of receiving it back in the end is not advisable. I wouldn't write off leasing because of this, just perhaps do a bit more research before making a decision like that.

I would have maybe done a Multiple Security Deposit option instead which reduces your interest on the lease, but at the end of the lease your MSD is due back to you, less any billable items on your account (if any). This way your payment would have been reduced to save you money, and you were contractually obligated to receive that money back at the end no matter what the value of the truck. Sure this leaves the GAP concern, but you have $3,500 on the account to cover any shortages in a worst case and short of just buying GAP, you are always exposed to some risk. This is why knowing the Residual Value and Money Factor on a lease is helpful, lower the residual means you have a larger portion to pay (higher payment) but also means more of your payment is going towards the actual principal of the vehicle, reducing the risk of being upside-down on a lease at time of a total loss.

Additionally, this GAP question is unique to only a handful of brands/banks - most have GAP included making the scenario slightly less complicated.

To be clear to anyone reading this, I am not stating do MSDs in lieu of cash down on a lease, but to consider it over doing a large down payment. IMO the best amount to cover is your inceptions (taxes, fees, 1st payment) then if you want to reduce your payment further from there, if the lender allows it, use MSDs to accomplish this for best results.
 
I am in Ottawa. My experience with the car market is terrible here. Prices are high and dealers give nothing for trade-in. Thankfully I am within reach of Montreal and the GTA, so I usually buy my cars there. I will take a look at the market in the GTA and see if I can spot one of those deals. Thanks for the tip. I usually buy 2 year old car (financing), so I am quite familiar with that. With those you still have a warranty, and the early quality issues have all already been fixed. It is a sweet spot. I never realized these could be leased though. With a large chunk of the depreciation already gone, I suppose those leases should in theory be a lot cheaper.
I am in Ottawa as well. I sold my 2017 Mazda 6 to 417Nissan. They listed the car on their website a few days later, and they've already dropped the price by $2,000. Nobody is buying. I made the right decision there.
2 weeks ago I bought a 2016 Lexus RX350 from Orr Motors.
The first thing they said was if you pay cash, the price goes up by $3,000. (They get a cut from the bank for their finance business). I didn't even bother going to see the car until they dropped that little requirement. If you look hard enough and use the internet to negotiate, you can get fair prices.
I'd rather pay cash, and avoid financing/leasing costs.
 
Back