MSP Exhaust Manifold Design - Input Needed!

[igdrasil]

Hey people, the FSDE is a high torque engine, the MSP turbo is a fast spooler, right?

A short runners turbo manifold will give a better TOP END power while a long tubular will give more torque and faster spool. The difference in spool time will be negligible while it will give more power on high rpms.

I think the best manifold for this turbo is a shorty tubular manifold.

On saturday we tested another shorty manifold but this time was on a Celica GTS, it pulled 424whp on 22psi. The pic of the manifold its not so clear because its behind the firewall and a very tight fit. If anyone is interested in the video/pics, let me know.

On the protege, the long tubular on the T3/T4 is still on fine tunning and leak test up to february.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

i agree with you on this but its already been argued/talked/disputed about in another thread so lets not get into it again.

Well Im coming out with a short video, for non bilievers. I have 3,800 mile aprox in this engine and everything done to it, and you guys dont really believe the real potential this little turbo with a good tuning can do. why its so hard to believe ? now my questions is fellas. how many of you are boosting more than 13 psi in here ? what are you mods and knowlegde to say that what i have its not efficient or possible ? i mean i have it, its there and i drive it everyday. ive seen VW Golf GTI with stock turbo and stock internals boosting 25 psi... now, you guys really wanna see if the T25 is capable to boost 26 psi ? just disconect the vacuum hose from the turbo wastegate and run it, and yoll see if that turbo blows 26 psi or not. now the fact in here is do you have any forged internals, fuel and engine maganament to support this ? once you have all i have done to my engine and try it its when you can really say, its not true, not posible or a peace of s***... you guys better start to believe our engines are bad asses when you work on them...

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Boosting 26 & holding 18??

I can see u max'n out at 18psi, but spiking 26 (if thats what your saying) is hard to believe on the stock GT25. And why are u boosting 18 on the stock turbo?? Your not gaining anymore performance out of it even if you were at 16.....thats wayyyyy past its efficiency range. Blowwin hot air my friend, i think its time for the Nick Upgrade or a totally different turbo. My .02

oh yes. im getting a bigger turbo soon, with the rest of the parts to accomplish 400whp... one more thing, spiking 26 psi it was setup with purpose to gain instant whp and wpt. and believe me, that s*** its insane when the turbo kicks in.. im not saying im boosting 26 full time, just when the turbo kicks in it goes all the way to 26 psi, and slowly back down to 18 psi, and it does it in every gear so that spike reall makes a hell of a ******* difference.

 

[Kansei]

how.. do you have any traction driving on the street like that? there has been snow on the road every day since I turboed so I'm just not getting how there's grip lol

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

how long have you been running 18.6 and how many miles are on your car

for 3,800 miles, i only had to change the head gasket for a thicker cometic one it even lower the compession more to the car, so i can boost even more than 26 psi with a bigger turbo all day long..

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

how.. do you have any traction driving on the street like that? there has been snow on the road every day since I turboed so I'm just not getting how there's grip lol

i have a Electronic boost controller with the steering wheel switch, i start in low boost at 13 and runing i change it to high boost. also im runing 18x8 RX-8 rims, helps me not to spin tires so much..

 

[forcedboost]

for 3,800 miles, i only had to change the head gasket for a thicker cometic one it even lower the compession more to the car, so i can boost even more than 26 psi with a bigger turbo all day long..

I agree with mazdaspeed20035 about the t25's ability to make power. I can attest to t25s spooling over 20 psi and making big power. My buddies dsm pushes 20+ on his t25 and has been doing for a long time. pulls like there is no end. I do realize the science behind emulated boost due to heat expansion. Although i have seen instances with a t25 that heat expansion is the only logical explanation for the level of boost being provided - power was still made. Boost + hot air due to heat expansion is sent through hopefully an intercooler, then ignited in your combustion chamber without preignition = Horsepower. A T25 will not run out of heat at 13 psi. Now im not saying everyone push 25 psi through your t25's but if you are talking whether or not you can make power. you can. Is it safe? up to you to decide so do it at your own risk.

 

[igdrasil]

You can run the stock t25 at high boost, but power output will not be the same, the bottleneck of the exhaust plus the compressor efficiency will yield less hp per psi.
With a good intercooler and EMS its doable, maybe even with the MSP ECU running so rich.

26psi peaks in mid rpms are good, still falls into the efficient areas of the compressor.

 

[igdrasil]

The manifolds

Here are some pics from the actual manifold creations.

1st one is from the Celica GTS running 424whp @ 22psi - Dyno Video
2nd one is from the FSDE 323 running over 600whp @ 40+psi - Track Video
3rd one is the last one made and under testing 262whp @ ~11+ - Dyno video

4th one is from a Protege5 running low 13s @ ~14psi (uploading video...)

5th one is from a 1.6L Protege (no video)

 

[forcedboost]

You can run the stock t25 at high boost, but power output will not be the same, the bottleneck of the exhaust plus the compressor efficiency will yield less hp per psi.
With a good intercooler and EMS its doable, maybe even with the MSP ECU running so rich.

26psi peaks in mid rpms are good, still falls into the efficient areas of the compressor.

I agree with ya. I never said it would make efficient power. only stating it will make more power then less.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

I agree with mazdaspeed20035 about the t25's ability to make power. I can attest to t25s spooling over 20 psi and making big power. My buddies dsm pushes 20+ on his t25 and has been doing for a long time. pulls like there is no end. I do realize the science behind emulated boost due to heat expansion. Although i have seen instances with a t25 that heat expansion is the only logical explanation for the level of boost being provided - power was still made. Boost + hot air due to heat expansion is sent through hopefully an intercooler, then ignited in your combustion chamber without preignition = Horsepower. A T25 will not run out of heat at 13 psi. Now im not saying everyone push 25 psi through your t25's but if you are talking whether or not you can make power. you can. Is it safe? up to you to decide so do it at your own risk.

I agree 100% with you buddie, i know that i am taking this turbo to the limits of his life and in any time can say good bye. but ive been doing this for the longest, and almost everyday. also I have S-pipe, J-Pipe 2.5port and polish from corksport, empty catalytics, and mazdaspeed muffler. also i have a Hiboost front mount intercooler to back the heat up. this little turbo its a demon child for those that dont believe in the capabilities of this Garrett... i agree with you buddie, its not the best turbo to produce power, and i have to get a bigger one to make more power. but for now this little baby has helped me accomplish 271whp and 279wpt on 106 octane fuel like a champ. and any turbo can blow more psi of what they can really maintain. im holding 18 psi, and spiking to 26 psi. those few seconds that hits 26 psi the power that it makes its just out of hand. if any of you guys in here have enough mods to back up that amount of psi without any detonation should try this setup man. 18 psi all the time and spike 26 for a few seconds in every gear from 2nd gear and up. also this spiking had been setup to a progresive way. when i hit 26 is not instant. for example im rolling in 2nd Gear and i punch the gas this is how it goes. 6, 8, 10, 13, 15, 17 then 3rd gear where real boost kicks in 18, 20, 23, 26, now with the thicker head gasket, 760cc injectors, hiboost FMIC, and the timing retarted a little more as such as high boost and high rpm goes 27.6. then it slowly goes back down. 27.6, 25, 23,21, 19, 18 psi and stays there and in every gear from 2nd and up it does what i just explained. it could be done because im driving it everyday. i am not trying to be an ass with no one in this forum, and you learn something new everyday in here, theres no point for me to lie in here when Alejo_NIN Build my Entire Engine From Scrap, and Hiboost have done the adjustment and EMS installation and Tune. Anyone is welcome to visit my car domain site for pics and more details.. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2315771/1.

 

[Kansei]

wait you're pushing 27.6psi and have the stock midpipe and just an axleback? yikes

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

wait you're pushing 27.6psi and have the stock midpipe and just an axleback? yikes

Yes sir. I have Corksport S-pipe, J-pipe ported and polished, also port and polished turbo many, and port and polished turbo, empty catalytics, and mazdaspeed Updated muffler, as soonest i drop in a bigger exhaust this demon child it's going to be even more aggresive than what it is right now.I'm waiting for some money and then i'll do 3.5" Exhaust for my big turbo upgrade.. as i said i don't hit 27.6 psi at once.. it's progressive, and goes back down to where the turbo can hold. probably a litlle more than what can really takes.. normally this turbo can hold 16.5 psi all day long according to the garrett efficiency chart, but i'm taking it a liitle beyond... it runs just perfect for me. i love it man. it's just insane when those 27 psi kicks in in mid 3rd gear and up... the car even run much harder when high octane fuel is in place...

 

[Kansei]

the stock midpipe is so restrictive, and the mazdaspeed muffler (known as the mazdaspeed axleback.. it's called the "sport muffler" or somethin by mazda, a dealer accessory for the Protege5/ES) is 2.25" inlet last I checked.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

the stock midpipe is so restrictive, and the mazdaspeed muffler (known as the mazdaspeed axleback.. it's called the "sport muffler" or somethin by mazda, a dealer accessory for the Protege5/ES) is 2.25" inlet last I checked.

I know its very restrictive, even though i'm making mad power and boosting really high. I know that as soon i put a better J-pipe back exhaust my turbo it's going to be even more than a demon child, and its going to spool much faster than now and i'll make a few more whp... i have that clear..

 

[kicker22705]

anything over 14psi on the gt25r, is off the chart in the efficiency range on the compressor map.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

anything over 14psi on the gt25r, is off the chart in the efficiency range on the compressor map.

it's a T25r not a GT25 my friend. i know i'm pushing it really hard and that its not good for the turbo. but it's boosting every PSI like a champ on everything i've done to the engine and tranny. Obviously its not going to be the turbo i want to make big numbers. just that i ran out of money to do what is left to make big numbers. i just need Better Turbo Many, Bigger turbo, Bigger and Better Exhaust, external wastegate and that's it. i've done everything already to produce power. this turbo and exhaust already gave me the max of it.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

anything over 14psi on the gt25r, is off the chart in the efficiency range on the compressor map.

I saw you have a GT28RS and 440cc Injectors ? what Turbo many do you have, and what numbers are you putting down ?

 

[yashart_mp3]

your intercooler piping must be blazing/ burning hot. Im willing to bet even your cold pipe is hot

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

your intercooler piping must be blazing/ burning hot. Im willing to bet even your cold pipe is hot

You could be wrong buddie. and let me tell you. The turbo gets really hot obviously because of the boost it's making, but if you touch the hot pipe its hot, and the cold its obvioulst hot, but not as hot as the HOT one, it's warm.. wow. you people need to start to believe the potential of this little T25R can make.