Winter is here and my CX-5 turbo is now a 2.0L!

[HyFlyer]

I don't know anything about the cold ambient temp / loss of boost issue on the turbo 2.5, I'm simply replying to @TurboMazda 's idea of the transmissions torque converter operating out of lockup.

I've noticed this on my 2.2 diesel and my 16.5 2.5 NA both. It's more pronounced on the diesel than on the 2.5 NA. Seems like when the ambient temperatures are low, the skyactiv transmission keeps the torque converter out of lockup to heat the fluid faster. It does not take long, maybe 5ish minutes.

I made a little video clip of it a while back to send to my brother ('19 CX5 Signature 2.5turbo) to see if he experiences the same thing. It was 37 deg F and my C5D had been running just a few minutes.

@TurboMazda , is this what you're describing? ...

Manual mode in 4th gear to show the unlocked torque converter

 

[Unobtanium]

I don't know anything about the cold ambient temp / loss of boost issue on the turbo 2.5, I'm simply replying to @TurboMazda 's idea of the transmissions torque converter operating out of lockup.

I've noticed this on my 2.2 diesel and my 16.5 2.5 NA both. It's more pronounced on the diesel than on the 2.5 NA. Seems like when the ambient temperatures are low, the skyactiv transmission keeps the torque converter out of lockup to heat the fluid faster. It does not take long, maybe 5ish minutes.

I made a little video clip of it a while back to send to my brother ('19 CX5 Signature 2.5turbo) to see if he experiences the same thing. It was 37 deg F and my C5D had been running just a few minutes.

@TurboMazda , is this what you're describing? ...

Manual mode in 4th gear to show the unlocked torque converter

This is correct, and I've seen and experienced it as well, but this is only when the fluid is cold, and once warmed up goes away. It also doesn't double the 0-80 time, lol

 

[joemazdacx5]

I don't know anything about the cold ambient temp / loss of boost issue on the turbo 2.5, I'm simply replying to @TurboMazda 's idea of the transmissions torque converter operating out of lockup.

I've noticed this on my 2.2 diesel and my 16.5 2.5 NA both. It's more pronounced on the diesel than on the 2.5 NA. Seems like when the ambient temperatures are low, the skyactiv transmission keeps the torque converter out of lockup to heat the fluid faster. It does not take long, maybe 5ish minutes.

I made a little video clip of it a while back to send to my brother ('19 CX5 Signature 2.5turbo) to see if he experiences the same thing. It was 37 deg F and my C5D had been running just a few minutes.

@TurboMazda , is this what you're describing? ...

Manual mode in 4th gear to show the unlocked torque converter

So are you holding the gas steady in this clip or trying to floor it? Just wondering...

 

[HyFlyer]

So are you holding the gas steady in this clip or trying to floor it? Just wondering...

Neither really. I was rolling on & off the accelerator pedal maybe 1/3 at the most but nowhere near "flooring it"

 

[Cerps]

I'm glad this thread got bumped. Thanks for all the info. Cx-5 turbo (or cx-9) was at the top of my list to replace my 2008 RAV4 V6. But living in Minnesota it gets cold. High temps since Thursday have not gone above 0F and won't until Monday (then it's teens until next weekend). It's going to be -20F in the morning. I can't have a vehicle with inconsistent acceleration. I don't want to assume normal acceleration and pull out and punch it and have nothing there and cause an accident because I didn't look at the temperature.

I'll have to test drive this week when it's cold. Back to considering an Outback XT. But not at fan of CVT or their infotainment issues.

 

[jcrout7992]

I'm glad this thread got bumped. Thanks for all the info. Cx-5 turbo (or cx-9) was at the top of my list to replace my 2008 RAV4 V6. But living in Minnesota it gets cold. High temps since Thursday have not gone above 0F and won't until Monday (then it's teens until next weekend). It's going to be -20F in the morning. I can't have a vehicle with inconsistent acceleration. I don't want to assume normal acceleration and pull out and punch it and have nothing there and cause an accident because I didn't look at the temperature.

I'll have to test drive this week when it's cold. Back to considering an Outback XT. But not at fan of CVT or their infotainment issues.

Cerps,
I bought the CX-5 turbo knowing it could be an issue a couple months out of the year. I’m hoping the upcoming tune from Burger Motorsports will take care of it. Either way, I’d still pick the CX-5 turbo 10 times out of 10 when shopping this price point.

 

[NathanH]

I did some of the original data logging last year. Unfortunately, my CX5 has been in the body shop since Nov 30 so I haven't been able to try again this year, though our temps around here have been perfect for it lately. Highs below 0.

 

[Cerps]

Cerps,
I bought the CX-5 turbo knowing it could be an issue a couple months out of the year. I’m hoping the upcoming tune from Burger Motorsports will take care of it. Either way, I’d still pick the CX-5 turbo 10 times out of 10 when shopping this price point.

Input is appreciated. I still have a hard time paying for something that may not work all the time. Tunes aren't my game. I don't want to mess with warranty and also don't want to pay extra for a tune to use the turbo that I already paid extra for.

 

[Unobtanium]

Input is appreciated. I still have a hard time paying for something that may not work all the time. Tunes aren't my game. I don't want to mess with warranty and also don't want to pay extra for a tune to use the turbo that I already paid extra for.

There is a reason Mazda tuned it this way. I would not muck with it.

 

[jcrout7992]

There is a reason Mazda tuned it this way. I would not muck with it.

I messaged Terry from Burger Motorsports to see if he’s come across anything so far.
I agree that Mazda intentionally cut boost in 1st and 2nd below 20 degrees, but I’m willing to mess around with it when the JB4 gets released. The complete drop off at 20 degrees just doesn’t make sense. It seems like a lazy solution for something Mazda isn’t sharing with us. I’ve had a number of turbo AWD cars, all tuned, and none had issues in the cold.

 

[Unobtanium]

I messaged Terry from Burger Motorsports to see if he’s come across anything so far.
I agree that Mazda intentionally cut boost in 1st and 2nd below 20 degrees, but I’m willing to mess around with it when the JB4 gets released. The complete drop off at 20 degrees just doesn’t make sense. It seems like a lazy solution for something Mazda isn’t sharing with us. I’ve had a number of turbo AWD cars, all tuned, and none had issues in the cold.

I agree, but DPT is different from all of them. I would like to know more before meddling...

 

[sm1ke]

Input is appreciated. I still have a hard time paying for something that may not work all the time. Tunes aren't my game. I don't want to mess with warranty and also don't want to pay extra for a tune to use the turbo that I already paid extra for.

We've kind of exhausted all of our options I think. This was discussed at length about a year ago, and we still aren't 100% on the reason for why it happens or why Mazda tuned it this way - all we have are data logs, theories, and anecdotal evidence. None of that has changed since then (I don't think).

Cliffs:
- Could possibly be Mazda's way of preventing an overboost situation, which could damage the engine/turbo.
- Could possibly be Mazda's way of maintaining traction in 1st and 2nd. They did something similar with 2nd gen Mazdaspeed3s (but this was because it was a FWD car with 280 ft-lbs of torque, not because it was cold out).
- According to one user, it's only noticeable at WOT. If this is true, then rolling up the throttle instead of punching it may be a way around this "quirk". Would be great if a CX-5 Reserve/Sig owner could test.

 

[Unobtanium]

We've kind of exhausted all of our options I think. This was discussed at length about a year ago, and we still aren't 100% on the reason for why it happens or why Mazda tuned it this way - all we have are data logs, theories, and anecdotal evidence. None of that has changed since then (I don't think).

Cliffs:
- Could possibly be Mazda's way of preventing an overboost situation, which could damage the engine/turbo.
- Could possibly be Mazda's way of maintaining traction in 1st and 2nd. They did something similar with 2nd gen Mazdaspeed3s (but this was because it was a FWD car with 280 ft-lbs of torque, not because it was cold out).
- According to one user, it's only noticeable at WOT. If this is true, then rolling up the throttle instead of punching it may be a way around this "quirk". Would be great if a CX-5 Reserve/Sig owner could test.

No, you only notice it at WOT because under partial throttle, the difference is less stark. You can still generate, say, 150bhp, but once you demand the full 250...and don't get it. That's when you notice.

 

[sm1ke]

No, you only notice it at WOT because under partial throttle, the difference is less stark. You can still generate, say, 150bhp, but once you demand the full 250...and don't get it. That's when you notice.

Is that what the data logs say, or is that also anecdotal? I'm just repeating what another member mentioned a year ago.

In any event, since this seems to happen in 1st and 2nd gear mostly, how do you generate the full 227/250hp in 1st or 2nd without nearing WOT?

 

[sm1ke]

I don't remember if anyone asked/tested, but has anyone tested 40-80 at WOT above 20F and then compared it to 40-80 at WOT below 20F to see if there's a difference?

 

[Unobtanium]

I don't remember if anyone asked/tested, but has anyone tested 40-80 at WOT above 20F and then compared it to 40-80 at WOT below 20F to see if there's a difference?

Yes, I did. Significant difference.

 

[sm1ke]

Yes, I did. Significant difference.

How significant? Obviously the issue/quirk/whatever is there and exists, so at this point its just a matter of the driver understanding as much as possible about it so that they aren't caught off guard by it.


EDIT: Have you tried 40-80 rolling up the throttle instead of punching it right into WOT at temps below 20F?

 

[jcrout7992]

How significant? Obviously the issue/quirk/whatever is there and exists, so at this point its just a matter of the driver understanding as much as possible about it so that they aren't caught off guard by it.


EDIT: Have you tried 40-80 rolling up the throttle instead of punching it right into WOT at temps below 20F?

I’ve tried every combination of everything and the only thing that tricks it below 20 degrees is heat soak, which is only good for the first launch. I’ve adjusted my driving habits when pulling out into traffic. Not as much of an issue with highway on ramps as I just put in 3rd so it doesn’t drop to 2nd when merging. 1st and 2nd are definitely the culprits.

 

[BatmanYaj]

My CX-5 gtr also have significant power loss at low temps. It seems to lose power under 25 degrees for me.

When driving under lower temps, the turbo seems to disappear. Even after I drive 45 minutes to work, I don’t ever get the turbo back. If I want the turbo back, Between 15 degrees and 25, I’ll have to, literally, turn off the vehicle after driving it for 20 minutes and then turning it back on for the turbo to work again. However, this recent negative degrees weather, even after driving 45 minutes to work, I turn off vehicle and turn it back on, I have no turbo still.

Savagegeese on YouTube mentions this power loss at low temps on his review of the Mazda cx5 turbo.

I have complained of this power loss to my Mazda dealer and they found it odd that I lost power. After confirming themselves that this happens with another vehicle they own at lower temps. But when vehicle was in a heated garage, the vehicle returns to normal. They called Mazda Corp and was told that since my cx5 and dealers cx5 had this issue, this was not an issue and that it was normal under lower temps. They had no explanation to why I lose this power but only said it’s normal. Thus I was not able to pursue any more. which is very frustrating.

My wife’s Subaru has no issue with her Ascent with the turbo. Btw.

 

[BatmanYaj]

How significant? Obviously the issue/quirk/whatever is there and exists, so at this point its just a matter of the driver understanding as much as possible about it so that they aren't caught off guard by it.


EDIT: Have you tried 40-80 rolling up the throttle instead of punching it right into WOT at temps below 20F?

Even at 40-80 you’ll feel the boost but the boost is not 100%. I feel like it’s prob 50% or lower.
0-40, absolutely zero boost. It’s even slower than a non turbo cx5. When I took my cx5 in to dealer to complain about the power loss, I had a loaner cx5 non turbo and it never had any power loss at lower temps. It even picks up quicker than the turbo cx5 at lower temps.