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Winter is here...and my cx5 turbo is now a 2.0!

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
Contributor
:
Denver, CO
:
2014 CX-5 Touring
I’m going looking at a Lexus today because of this seat thing. For me it is just uncomfortable and after about half an hour my butt starts to go numb - it feels like I’m sitting on something and I am! I could get the seat altered but I’ll see if the Lexus is naturally comfortable.
I don't understand what they did to the Gen 2 seats. My Gen 1 is comfortable, but 20 minutes in a loaner 2019 GT had the back of my legs hurting. They should figure out their seats.
 
One other thought. I'm assuming that this car has a turbo with a boost pressure actuated wastegate. In a system like this, the wastegate is held closed by a spring-loaded actuator. The spring pressure has to be sufficient to hold the wastegate closed at maximum boost. In order to open the wastegate and relieve boost pressure, a solenoid lets boost pressure into a diaphragm that pulls back on the actuator, overcoming the spring pressure that is holding the wastegate closed. Problem is, in order to relieve boost you have to have boost to work the actuator, and the reality of systems like this is that there is a delay in how long it all takes to work. So you can get into a situation where the boost builds faster than the wastegate system can act to relieve it. Then you end up with an overboost condition, and it shuts down the fun for a while. One "fix" for this is to adjust the actuator to have less spring preload when closed, which makes it easier to get open. The downside of this is that it could limit boost if it isn't set to be strong enough to stay closed.

The spring pressure tends to get lower over time and miles (as the spring relaxes and internal parts wear in), so maybe this problem would be less likely to occur after the cars have some miles on them...?
 
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2013 VRM Mazdaspeed3, 2016 Soul Red CX-5 GT
My guess is that new exhaust manifold that Mazda is using that allows the engine to make instant boost at low RPM, maybe it is a little harder to control than regular turbocharged engines? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, yeah as has been suggested, those that have data should take it to the dealer and ask for an explanation.

If Mazda ends up saying this was done intentionally to improve the engine's reliability in cold weather conditions, then I don't think there's anything owners can do about that. Tuning the ECU to remove this restriction will obviously void the warranty, so you guys might just have to live with this.
 

jaycal6

2020 CX-5 Grand Touring Reserve
Yeah all I really want right now is for someone at Mazda to acknowledge it and explain the rationale
 
Yeah all I really want right now is for someone at Mazda to acknowledge it and explain the rationale
And some money back for false advertising if they’re not going to improve it.

I bought a vehicle with an advertised 310 lbs ft of torque. Nowhere did it say it only makes that power when it’s above freezing. Up to 3 months out of the year for me when the car won’t perform as expected.
 
And some money back for false advertising if they’re not going to improve it.

I bought a vehicle with an advertised 310 lbs ft of torque. Nowhere did it say it only makes that power when it’s above freezing. Up to 3 months out of the year for me when the car won’t perform as expected.
Mazda has not misled customers at all IMO. And as turbo owners, those pissed need to accept the fact a turbo motor has variable power output based on a host of factors. This is nothing new to turbo-charged engines. The computer will pull power based on enviroment/heatsoak/detonation detection etc. Looks like Mazda built in something for sub freezing temps...but still, the engine is rated for its power output in normal conditions (going over 100 degrees it wont put down the same, go below freezing it won't either)

Watch some savagegeese reviews of various turbo charged cars/SUV's......he talks about the inconsistent performance often on all types.
 
I'll also add those new to turbo motors may not be familier with variability in power. If you have driven NA motors most of your life that are consistent in power delivery going to a turbo engine may surprise when its feel changes from one romp on the gas to another.
 
Mazda has not misled customers at all IMO. And as turbo owners, those pissed need to accept the fact a turbo motor has variable power output based on a host of factors. This is nothing new to turbo-charged engines. The computer will pull power based on enviroment/heatsoak/detonation detection etc. Looks like Mazda built in something for sub freezing temps...but still, the engine is rated for its power output in normal conditions (going over 100 degrees it wont put down the same, go below freezing it won't either)

Watch some savagegeese reviews of various turbo charged cars/SUV's......he talks about the inconsistent performance often on all types.
Most of SGs comments are related to heat soak after repeated WOT runs. That I understand and expect. Even an NA motor starts to loose some power in those conditions.

Mazda should tell customers their vehicles don’t perform as advertised in below freezing temps if it’s actually expected. Not doing so is misleading.

It’s not like below freezing temps are uncommon in the states.
 
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2013 VRM Mazdaspeed3, 2016 Soul Red CX-5 GT
I bought a vehicle with an advertised 310 lbs ft of torque. Nowhere did it say it only makes that power when it’s above freezing. Up to 3 months out of the year for me when the car won’t perform as expected.
You are only expected to be getting 310 ft-lbs of torque at the gear they dynoed the car in, probably 4th gear or 3rd gear. At 1st and 2nd gear, with the turbo at full boost, you are going to get more than 310 ft-lbs of torque. From what I've read on here, at 3rd gear and above, you are getting the promised 310 ft-lbs of torque from the engine. So not necessarily false advertising.

There is a reason why the Mazdaspeed community always tells new owners to not boost below 3000 RPM so as not to blow the engine. The SkyActiv 2.5T produces peak torque at lower than 3000 RPM, even more reason to be a little cautious in 1st and 2nd gear.

Edit: Actually I have it backwards, we are not supposed to be at full boost at low RPM on higher gears (5th or 6th). Since the CX-5 is automatic only, this shouldn't be a problem since the transmission will shift to a lower gear when needed.. I'm leaving my comment as the first paragraph is still valid, but I have it wrong on the second paragraph.
 
Last edited:
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13' CX-5 and 16' Mazda6 both Touring w/Tech/Bose
Along time ago. In a cold northern state far far away.......

CX-5 2.5: Hey I'll race ya

CX-5 Turbo: okay

CX-5 2.5: I'm using the Force...I'm winning!!

CX-5 Turbo: I will seek my revenge in the Spring!!!
 
Most of SGs comments are related to heat soak after repeated WOT runs. That I understand and expect. Even an NA motor starts to loose some power in those conditions.

Mazda should tell customers their vehicles don’t perform as advertised in below freezing temps if it’s actually expected. Not doing so is misleading.

It’s not like below freezing temps are uncommon in the states.
If this is causing power delivery problems which effect driveability then all 2.5L turbo owners need to report this to Mazda or US traffic safety. With enough noise Mazda may come out with a solution or TSB/recall etc.
 
You are only expected to be getting 310 ft-lbs of torque at the gear they dynoed the car in, probably 4th gear or 3rd gear. At 1st and 2nd gear, with the turbo at full boost, you are going to get more than 310 ft-lbs of torque. From what I've read on here, at 3rd gear and above, you are getting the promised 310 ft-lbs of torque from the engine. So not necessarily false advertising.

There is a reason why the Mazdaspeed community always tells new owners to not boost below 3000 RPM so as not to blow the engine. The SkyActiv 2.5T produces peak torque at lower than 3000 RPM, even more reason to be a little cautious in 1st and 2nd gear.

Edit: Actually I have it backwards, we are not supposed to be at full boost at low RPM on higher gears (5th or 6th). Since the CX-5 is automatic only, this shouldn't be a problem since the transmission will shift to a lower gear when needed.. I'm leaving my comment as the first paragraph is still valid, but I have it wrong on the second paragraph.
Manufactures are rating at the flywheel, not the wheels.

Power output at the flywheel should be the same in every gear.

To get wheel power rating, the vehicle needs to be in whatever gear is 1 to 1 with engine rpm, likely 4th. The CX5 is definitely not putting down 310 lb ft to the wheels.
 
Mazda has not misled customers at all IMO. And as turbo owners, those pissed need to accept the fact a turbo motor has variable power output based on a host of factors. This is nothing new to turbo-charged engines. The computer will pull power based on enviroment/heatsoak/detonation detection etc. Looks like Mazda built in something for sub freezing temps...but still, the engine is rated for its power output in normal conditions (going over 100 degrees it wont put down the same, go below freezing it won't either)

Watch some savagegeese reviews of various turbo charged cars/SUV's......he talks about the inconsistent performance often on all types.
Two things: this behavior happens in the naturally aspirated version of this engine too, and the power loss in the worst case scenario is so severe that it calls into question the safety and driveability of the car.

Feel free to accuse me of exaggerating if you want, but unless you own one of these vehicles and have experienced it for yourself you don't get it. It's unnerving for the engine to feel completely dead, especially if you are pulling into traffic and need it to NOT be dead.

However, it's my first point that IMO really validates this entire discussion. I think most car enthusiasts understand to some extent or another that turbocharged engines can and do vary quite a bit in performance depending upon changing conditions, but this is something more severe than that and it also happens in the engine that doesn't even have a turbo.

My personal opinion on the whole matter after all of this discussion is that the self-protection measures Mazda has built into it's ECU are needlessly aggressive and that they should re-evaluate them. Other manufacturers implement the same protection without it being nearly as obvious to the owner.
 
:
2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
Mazda has not misled customers at all IMO. And as turbo owners, those pissed need to accept the fact a turbo motor has variable power output based on a host of factors. This is nothing new to turbo-charged engines. The computer will pull power based on enviroment/heatsoak/detonation detection etc. Looks like Mazda built in something for sub freezing temps...but still, the engine is rated for its power output in normal conditions (going over 100 degrees it wont put down the same, go below freezing it won't either)

Watch some savagegeese reviews of various turbo charged cars/SUV's......he talks about the inconsistent performance often on all types.
Turbo engines may produce variable power depending on conditions, but this is beyond that.

I'll go back to my Speed6 and Explorer, again, they are the only turbo vehicles I have for reference. ~70k in the Speed6 and ~90K miles the Explorer (and climbing), never did/have I felt like either engine wasn't producing advertised power (or close to it) except when traction control kicked in. It may be down a few HP due to extreme conditions, but not like what going on with the CX5.

And I just noticed CatsPaw just posted before this with about the same comments.
 
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2019 Mazda CX-5 GTR
Today's 4-cyl engines are being pushed to produce more and more power. I can only imagine that the added stresses of this will require engines to reach operating temperature to allow for full power output. Are you guys seeing this power shortage even after the vehicle is warmed up?

I've only had a couple of mornings where my commute has been below 20 this winter, so I truly have not noticed this problem. I live about 2 miles from the interstate, so my GTR is well into the normal temp range by the time I'm merging onto the highway. No problems here.........
 
Today's 4-cyl engines are being pushed to produce more and more power. I can only imagine that the added stresses of this will require engines to reach operating temperature to allow for full power output. Are you guys seeing this power shortage even after the vehicle is warmed up?

I've only had a couple of mornings where my commute has been below 20 this winter, so I truly have not noticed this problem. I live about 2 miles from the interstate, so my GTR is well into the normal temp range by the time I'm merging onto the highway. No problems here.........
Been mentioned many times that this is not related to being at operating temp or not.

Also, 2 miles is not long enough to reach full operating temp when temps are around and below freezing. Coolant temp might be getting there, but oil temp isn’t.
 
Two things: this behavior happens in the naturally aspirated version of this engine too, and the power loss in the worst case scenario is so severe that it calls into question the safety and driveability of the car.

Feel free to accuse me of exaggerating if you want, but unless you own one of these vehicles and have experienced it for yourself you don't get it. It's unnerving for the engine to feel completely dead, especially if you are pulling into traffic and need it to NOT be dead.

However, it's my first point that IMO really validates this entire discussion. I think most car enthusiasts understand to some extent or another that turbocharged engines can and do vary quite a bit in performance depending upon changing conditions, but this is something more severe than that and it also happens in the engine that doesn't even have a turbo.

My personal opinion on the whole matter after all of this discussion is that the self-protection measures Mazda has built into it's ECU are needlessly aggressive and that they should re-evaluate them. Other manufacturers implement the same protection without it being nearly as obvious to the owner.
I was unaware this same issue applied to the 2.5L NA. Personally I've never expirienced this with either my wifes 2018 or my 2019 or my former 2016 Mazda 6. All are/were driven regularly in sub freezing temperatures in Massachusetts.

Could you be confusing the former (Cylinder Deactivation) power loss prior to the Mazda reflash?

Which is a separate thing from the Turbo 2.5L power loss.

Since this is so severe of a power loss it absolutely needs to be looked into for the turbo owners and I can see how danagerous the unexpected lack of power will scare the driver.
 

sm1ke

Work In Progress..
Moderator
Contributor
:
Canada
:
'18 CX-9 Signature
Could you be confusing the former (Cylinder Deactivation) power loss prior to the Mazda reflash?

Which is a separate thing from the Turbo 2.5L power loss.
I was just about to comment the same thing. I think that would be a fair guess. I think CatsPaw had a 2018 or a 2019.
 

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