Winter is here...and my cx5 turbo is now a 2.0!

L
East Iowa
V
'19 CX-5 GT-R
And to be clear, this was on the same stretch of road, so same incline, road surface, everything. Started from 10 mph, transmission in Sport.
 

Avoidin Deer

Central Virginia
Contributor
V
2019 CX-5 Reserve
There it is! On that first run, the boost only gradually went up towards the end of the run. On the second run, you got max boost right away. Very interesting.
Now the question is What's the mechanism that restricts boost? The motive is only relevant if it's a driver management thing. If it's to genuinely protect the engine or the turbo, then one might not wish to seek an override.
 
L
East Iowa
V
'19 CX-5 GT-R
I could see it MAYBE protecting the turbo, but not the engine. Maybe the oil was too cold to properly cool the turbo. Though for both runs I drove for about 15 minutes before doing the run.
 
V
2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
Yes there are oil sensors that can be read. But this morning was probably the last cold day I'll get and I didn't log that sensor.
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Were those both this morning?
Did you feel a difference between those 2 runs?
Also notice how the throttle position slowly decreases in the first graph. Was the pedal held firmly to the floor that whole time?
The little bump in boost also seems like what I felt one of the times i got on it.
 
L
East Iowa
V
'19 CX-5 GT-R
Were those both this morning?
Did you feel a difference between those 2 runs?
Also notice how the throttle position slowly decreases in the first graph. Was the pedal held firmly to the floor that whole time?
The little bump in boost also seems like what I felt one of the times i got on it.
No, the run with full boost was Wed morning. The one with little boost was this morning. That's why the temps are so different. Both were at full throttle so not sure why they taper down during the run. And yes, the one from this morning felt like there was no power at all
 

Avoidin Deer

Central Virginia
Contributor
V
2019 CX-5 Reserve
I could see it MAYBE protecting the turbo, but not the engine. Maybe the oil was too cold to properly cool the turbo. Though for both runs I drove for about 15 minutes before doing the run.
By "too cold" did you mean to infer "too thick to properly cool the turbo"?

CatsPaw says the problem "mostly goes away" after the car [oil] has been warmed up by 1/2 hour of cruising-speed driving. So it's not just ambient air temp driving this.

I'd feel a little better if "remediated after sufficient warm up" is a universal truth.
 
L
East Iowa
V
'19 CX-5 GT-R
By "too cold" did you mean to infer "too thick to properly cool the turbo"?

CatsPaw says the problem "mostly goes away" after the car [oil] has been warmed up by 1/2 hour of cruising-speed driving. So it's not just ambient air temp driving this.

I'd feel a little better if "remediated after sufficient warm up" is a universal truth.
Yeah I should have said too thick to properly flow through and cool/lubricate the turbo
 

Avoidin Deer

Central Virginia
Contributor
V
2019 CX-5 Reserve
Yeah I should have said too thick to properly flow through and cool/lubricate the turbo
We all knew what you meant...I was being anal.

Given the work you and others have done, it really looks like you're getting down to the real issue. The last piece of data would be to monitor the oil temp and see how long it takes to get to operating temp in above-freezing and frigid temps, then stomp it when the oil fully warms up, just to verify "seems to go away after extended warm-up."
 
V
2019 CX-5 Signature
By "too cold" did you mean to infer "too thick to properly cool the turbo"?

CatsPaw says the problem "mostly goes away" after the car [oil] has been warmed up by 1/2 hour of cruising-speed driving. So it's not just ambient air temp driving this.

I'd feel a little better if "remediated after sufficient warm up" is a universal truth.
For reference, my experience with this yesterday was with the car running for almost 30 minutes. It was parked for about 15 of those, but still running. So, I'm pretty sure the oil was up to temp.
 
V
2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
So, I have some interesting info (data). I'm now thinking it's NOT related to engine damage concerns. Read below for why.

I was able to take a 2019 GTR home for the night and do some tests.
First, temps were around 17F today and it definitely had the low power.
My drive home was about 15 miles with a good bit sitting traffic.
I have no doubt engine and oil temps were up to normal.

I didn't do sport mode, but I think it's irrelevant based on my findings.

I was able to hook my obd2 reader and torque app and monitor boost for a short time and that was enlightening. I didn't constantly pound on it, just a few times to hopefully learn.

Initial findings, boost is low (~2psi) in first and 2nd gears. I tried with traction control on/off, I tried manual mode, various speeds/rpm, but nothing I did seemed to change low boost in 1st and 2nd gears. It seamed to pick up at the very top of 2nd, but once it hit 3rd gear, boost hit 10-12psi and power was there.

Now, when I put it in 3rd gear and got into it, full boost any time I pushed it. I think I saw a peak of about 12psi, but no matter what I did, it gave full boost. I could feel it on the freeway that it had the power. If this was an engine durability issue, why would they allow full boost in 3rd gear an higher....especially at low rpm?

Here's where it gets interesting. I stopped at the grocery store for about 10 minutes, mind you it was about 13F by this time. I got back in and on the short drive from the grocery store to my house, it gave boost in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That was the first time it felt like it should....and I liked it.

I didn't monitor anything except boost...mainly because that's all I was interested in and also I got the torque app up and running quickly at a stop. I don't know if I'll be able to repeat it before I have to "return" it tomorrow (I'll try).

Here's where I'm stuck. Other than that low power in 1st and 2nd, I really like the vehicle and they just release another $1080 lease rebate today, so my payments just dropped about $30 a month for 3 year lease. That brings the GTR to over $100 less per month than the Sig I was eyeing. I think I might bite the bullet and snag this one up and live with the lower power (sometimes) until hopefully Mazda corrects it.
 
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Avoidin Deer

Central Virginia
Contributor
V
2019 CX-5 Reserve
For reference, my experience with this yesterday was with the car running for almost 30 minutes. It was parked for about 15 of those, but still running. So, I'm pretty sure the oil was up to temp.
Man, some objective oil temp data would sure be nice. I think the folks here have this cornered.

It would be interesting to see this resolved with something as relatively basic as a block heater, or just a dipstick heater.

I don't want to go to far afield before this is nailed down, but the question "Why do legacy (other manufacturer's) turbos thrive in the cold without frying?" would still be out there.
 
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So, I have some interesting info (data). I'm now thinking it's NOT related to engine damage concerns. Read below for why.

I was able to take a 2019 GTR home for the night and do some tests.
First, temps were around 17F today and it definitely had the low power.
My drive home was about 15 miles with a good bit sitting traffic.
I have no doubt engine and oil temps were up to normal.

I didn't do sport mode, but I think it's irrelevant based on my findings.

I was able to hook my obd2 reader and torque app and monitor boost for a short time and that was enlightening. I didn't constantly pound on it, just a few times to hopefully learn.

Initial findings, boost is low (~2psi) in first and 2nd gears. I tried with traction control on/off, I tried manual mode, various speeds/rpm, but nothing I did seemed to change low boost in 1st and 2nd gears. It seamed to pick up at the very top of 2nd, but once it hit 3rd gear, boost hit 10-12psi and power was there.

Now, when I put it in 3rd gear and got into it, full boost any time I pushed it. I think I saw a peak of about 12psi, but no matter what I did, it gave full boost. I could feel it on the freeway that it had the power. If this was an engine durability issue, why would they allow full boost in 3rd gear an higher....especially at low rpm?

Here's where it gets interesting. I stopped at the grocery store for about 10 minutes, mind you it was about 13F by this time. I got back in and on the short drive from the grocery store to my house, it gave boost in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That was the first time it felt like it should....and I liked it.

I didn't monitor anything except boost...mainly because that's all I was interested in and also I got the torque app up and running quickly at a stop. I don't know if I'll be able to repeat it before I have to "return" it tomorrow (I'll try).

Here's where I'm stuck. Other than that low power in 1st and 2nd, I really like the vehicle and they just release another $1080 lease rebate today, so my payments just dropped about $30 a month for 3 year lease. That brings the GTR to over $100 less per month than the Sig I was eyeing. I think I might bite the bullet and snag this one up and live with the lower power (sometimes) until hopefully Mazda corrects it.
This is similar to what I’ve been noticing. Except that 3rd still feels weak and 4th is where it comes back.

This data just makes this issue even more puzzling.

The traction theory makes no sense. Engine protection does, but why only the lower gears???
We need Dave Coleman.

I also don’t think oil temp has anything to do with it based on my experience. I’ve had. Is happen after a 30+mile drive at highway speeds. Data would be nice to confirm though.
 
V
'14 Mazda CX-5 GT
Not sure if this has been discussed, but the ambient air temp sensor would make sense for the situations when it behaves normally after it has been driven in under 20 degree temps then parked briefly, then driven again. My outside air temp always reads warmer for a few minutes in those situations. Similar to when I remote start and it runs for a while before driving. Where is that sensor located, and has anyone tried tricking it yet?
 
V
2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
Not sure if this has been discussed, but the ambient air temp sensor would make sense for the situations when it behaves normally after it has been driven in under 20 degree temps then parked briefly, then driven again. My outside air temp always reads warmer for a few minutes in those situations. Similar to when I remote start and it runs for a while before driving. Where is that sensor located, and has anyone tried tricking it yet?
I'm pretty sure my ambient display was still showing ~15f. Unfortunately it is now 20F out and only getting warmer. So, I have to make the decision if I can live with it for the short time each year.
 
V
CX5 GT-R
I'm pretty sure my ambient display was still showing ~15f. Unfortunately it is now 20F out and only getting warmer. So, I have to make the decision if I can live with it for the short time each year.
Man, I'd honestly just chill a few months and drive a RAV4 Prime. It's better in every way by a lot, on paper, and I'd like to see if that translates into perception in person. If it does, screw a CX5. Prime way bettah!
 
V
2014 & 2019 CX-5 Touring(s)
I looked at the RAV4 Prime at the DC Auto show a couple weeks back. I like the idea of the economy and power. I also like the 'butch' exterior (though probably not as much as the more elegant CX-5).

However the interior of the RAV4 looks really chintzy in comparison and that's where you spend all the time. Added to that is the worse driving/handling characteristics (per the magazine reviews), that all puts a real kink in the idea of one for me.

Obviously it all depends on your priorities - YMMV.
 
V
2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
The lease deal in the 2019 GTR seems to be quite good, which is why I'm on the edge.
$2k out of pocket.
$345/month
3yr/36k
 
V
CX5 GT-R
I looked at the RAV4 Prime at the DC Auto show a couple weeks back. I like the idea of the economy and power. I also like the 'butch' exterior (though probably not as much as the more elegant CX-5).

However the interior of the RAV4 looks really chintzy in comparison and that's where you spend all the time. Added to that is the worse driving/handling characteristics (per the magazine reviews), that all puts a real kink in the idea of one for me.

Obviously it all depends on your priorities - YMMV.
Noone has driven the rav4 prime to opine on its handling outside of toyota testing.
 
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