Winter is here...and my cx5 turbo is now a 2.0!

[Avoidin Deer]

I have an Outdoor Air Temperature display on my dash.

I don't know if that sensor is universally used, but that's how the car knows...outdoor air temperature sensor(s).

As others have hypothesized, the issue might not be due to anticipating slick streets that occur when it's cold, it might be due to concern over denser air (and its effects on the turboed engine) that occurs when it's cold.

 

[Odrapnew]

I have one thought on this: Once the engine is up to normal operating temperatures, how does it know it's a cold day out there?
Does someone tell it it's winter, and then it says to itself, brrrrrr, it's cold outside, I'd better slow down.
Just wondering.

Temp sensors.
Ambient sensor and intake air sensor are 2 examples.

 

[sm1ke]

:What do you know about DR Tuned? They say "Custom Tuning Solutions For All 2004+ Mazda’s Including MZR and Skyactiv Engines!", but only list products for the 3 and the 6 (NA and turbo). I'd send them a note, but I'm not in the market for this until my warranty period is over, and the market place is likely to be way different then.

speed3chris1 is in communication with DR Tuning. Daniel at DR Tuning is also apparently talking to CorkSport, maybe to develop different "stages" of tuning (i.e. stock tune, tune with intake and exhaust only, tune with intake, exhaust, upgraded intercooler + piping, etc.). Keep an eye on this thread.

 

[CatsPaw]

I have one thought on this: Once the engine is up to normal operating temperatures, how does it know it's a cold day out there?
Does someone tell it it's winter, and then it says to itself, brrrrrr, it's cold outside, I'd better slow down.
Just wondering.

There are sensors at the engine's air intake that measure air density and temperature. The ECU needs this information to help set fuel/air ratio mixes, set spark advance/timing, etc. It doesn't rely on the temp sensor that displays ambient temperatures to the driver, that information is not precise enough.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

speed3chris1 is in communication with DR Tuning. Daniel at DR Tuning is also apparently talking to CorkSport, maybe to develop different "stages" of tuning (i.e. stock tune, tune with intake and exhaust only, tune with intake, exhaust, upgraded intercooler + piping, etc.). Keep an eye on this thread.

Interesting.

Thanks for the update.

As I said, this is on my birthday gift list for 2022!!!

 

[CX-5um]

There are sensors at the engine's air intake that measure air density and temperature. The ECU needs this information to help set fuel/air ratio mixes, set spark advance/timing, etc. It doesn't rely on the temp sensor that displays ambient temperatures to the driver, that information is not precise enough.

Hmm....wet and heat one of these up and throw it in the bottom of the stock Airbox. Would fool your Mazda into thinking its in Florida in July lol!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0178HVCGI/?tag=m20b7-20

 

[40752]

Haha, that would not warm the volume of air coming into the intake.

 

[sm1ke]

I thought Orange Virus went 100% Toyota. Interesting that they still do Mazdas.

Now I'm actually not sure if they do Mazdas at all anymore, including their Philippines branch. They make no mention of it at all on the website, even stating that they have no Mazda tune kits on their FAQ page. I looked at their Facebook page and the last Mazda 2.5T update was early 2019, stating that they would have a Mazda tune by the end of that month, but nothing since then.

Probably best to see what DR Tuned can come up with.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Now I'm actually not sure if they do Mazdas at all anymore, including their Philippines branch.

Thanks for the update.

It would be interesting to see why they (and others) stopped.
-Low volume?
-Lack of profit?
-Technical problems with the Mazda?

As I said, I'm still waiting for Mazda-specific OBD2 PIDs for my 2019.

 

[CatsPaw]

Hmm....wet and heat one of these up and throw it in the bottom of the stock Airbox. Would fool your Mazda into thinking its in Florida in July lol!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0178HVCGI/?tag=m20b7-20

The critical sensors are usually in the thermostat housing and at the engine intake, not the air filter box. You wouldn't want them to misreport anyway, all it would do is make your engine run poorly in ways worse than what's been discussed here.

 

[Odrapnew]

I was watching a video on YouTube and one of his 'final thoughts' sums up this thread.

Skip to 16:50 for power comment

I am on the edge of picking up a 2019 Sig or GTR ($4500 off) and this power issue is what's putting me on the edge. If not for the potential power issue, it would be in my garage.

 

[Anchorman]

Unob. Try disabling the VSC. Maybe it’s the intelligent AWD intervening. More power and cold enough for ice might cause it to predict traction and road holding issues.

 

[Anchorman]

Sorry I skipped pages in between. Has anyone actually datalogged to see if max boost is lower during those situations where they think the turbo is not getting all the boost it can? I understand that the 0-60 times are slower by a second or two, but would be interested to see what the max boost was.
If max boost was lower, then you have your issue. Most likely a tuning issue. If it was not lower, then something else is responsible for the slower 0-60 times.

My theory is that this is a grip/traction issue with the AWD system. Mazda's iActiv AWD is designed to not spin the wheels at all. Has anyone seen the traction control light turn on at all during those slow 0-60 attempts? My guess is that either the system is too conservative, restricting performance to avoid any wheel spin on colder weather, or your tires are spinning, you're just not noticing it because the AWD system is pulling back power to stop them from spinning.

Note that in the new AWD Mazda3 they switched to a different AWD system, where they actually check the load on the tires to determine if they can take more power.

Just seen this, it’s already been asked - sorry!

 

[jaycal6]

Haven’t noticed this issue at all here in Boston since getting the CX-5 earlier this year

 

[Avoidin Deer]

I was watching a video on YouTube and one of his 'final thoughts' sums up this thread.

Skip to 16:50 for power comment

I am on the edge of picking up a 2019 Sig or GTR ($4500 off) and this power issue is what's putting me on the edge. If not for the potential power issue, it would be in my garage.

I've watched that before and he seems to comingle issues in that comment...he initially talks about cold weather loss of turbo in the CX-5 (but not in the Mazda 6), and then he talks about an inconsistency with turbo power being there one moment and then not the next moment (in other words, just a "sometimes gone when it's cold" issue).

We've had someone here mention a consistency issue (unrelated to temperature), and another member responded with words to the effect that all turbos have some type of power decay...that successive use of turbos yielded less boost on each subsequent use. I could never find any backup to the assertion that turbos (or the engine) need some time to "fully recharge" after being deployed. If I feel like it later, I'll go spelunking for that thread and post a link here.

Savagegeese made his turbo comments at the very end of the video, yet didn't mention a turbo problem once during the entire test drive...no real-time example and discussion of exactly what he observed and his trying to duplicate it. He just sat on it, or he edited it out, or he was recounting an issue he did not experience first-hand. I think this is a very odd thing to just tack onto the end, considering it's probably his most crucial criticism of the car and the most major issue he raised for many potential buyers and owners.

In fact, typing this caused me to go to the video and ask SG "what gives?" What gives with the passing mention at the end with no discussion (or demonstration) of this most crucial problem during an extended test drive, and what gives with this problem in general? (I should have asked the question when the video was fresh.)

 

[ruthrj]

We've had someone here mention a consistency issue (unrelated to temperature), and another member responded with words to the effect that all turbos have some type of power decay...that successive use of turbos yielded less boost on each subsequent use. I could never find any backup to the assertion that turbos (or the engine) need some time to "fully recharge" after being deployed. If I feel like it later, I'll go spelunking for that thread and post a link here.

That sounds like heat soak. If you do several hard pulls on a turbo, the intercooler can get hot. A hot intercooler won’t cool incoming air as effectively, thus you’ll have less power due to less dense air.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

That sounds like heat soak. If you do several hard pulls on a turbo, the intercooler can get hot. A hot intercooler won’t cool incoming air as effectively, thus you’ll have less power due to less dense air.

Is that right?

I never heard of that, but I'm not a gear-head, and the only turbo intercooler I've owned in the past was a 1990 Volvo 740 sedan (hardly the stuff of track legend). I've not noticed this in my CX-5, and I've often put my foot into it, winding it out in 3rd gear, in several successive winding sections of road. I likely haven't pushed it that hard for that long. But it makes sense.

That also fits in with the comments where folks think that the opposite effect is why the turbo is dialed back in cold weather...much denser [cold] air entering the system.

 

[ruthrj]

I've never had a car capable of doing it either. I learned it from my buddy who has a YouTube channel. The stock intercooler on his Focus ST wasn't sufficient to keep cooling air when driving it hard. He was frustrated with the loss of power after multiple hard pulls in Florida heat. He upgraded the intercooler to a fairly massive one vs the stock intercooler. No matter how hard he drove that sucker, the air passing through the intercooler remained the same temp as the ambient air. It was neat seeing the OBD reader temps before and after the mod!

 

[CX-5um]

I've watched that before and he seems to comingle issues in that comment...he initially talks about cold weather loss of turbo in the CX-5 (but not in the Mazda 6),

Perhaps since the CX-5 with Turbo comes in AWD while the Mazda6 does not. The AWD system + cold temps appears to be the common denominator. But wait.....no reports on the CX-9 though.

 

[sm1ke]

Perhaps since the CX-5 with Turbo comes in AWD while the Mazda6 does not. The AWD system + cold temps appears to be the common denominator. But wait.....no reports on the CX-9 though.

As mentioned a few times before, I think I've been the only one to attempt to test the cold weather power loss on a 2nd gen CX-9. Apparently one of the techs at Uno's dealership owns a 2nd gen CX-9, and they've told Uno that they also experience a power loss similar to the power loss being discussed here.

That said, the "power loss" was much less pronounced when I did my test. I went from a 7.7s 0-100 km/hr time to an 8.9s 0-100 km/hr time.

When you factor in the potential weather concerns at those temps (possibility of snow/ice, harder rubber, etc.) and the fact that this is a 7-seater SUV (not a performance-oriented car like a GC SRT or an SQ5), most drivers would not be pushing the car hard enough to notice any difference, which could be why there aren't more reports of this issue on the CX-9.