Off Topic So slow I'm ashamed...

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
My only comment is the dual monitors. I mean, he has this Sammy already? He knows how big it is? As the #1 biggest fan of dualies as I affectionately call it, once you get to 27", a second monitor becomes much less important.
I have 2 24's at work and one 27 at home.
Agreed. I have a 32" at home.
 

Antoine

Administrator
Some of my extrapolations of the data: Ampere shines at 4k and performs better than would normally be expected at 4k mainly due to how it's architecture is built to tackle higher resolutions.
Great analysis as always, would you say Ampere is significantly better at 4K vs Big Navi? Do you think there is any benefit to going all AMD vs Ryzen paired with Ampere? Ampere works with AMD's FreeSync correct..?

What are your thoughts on Apple's new M1 desktop processor and its performance (so far)? I wonder how it will affect and or influence PC hardware and gaming.
 

CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
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2008 MX-5 SE
This is a good budget build for 1080p gaming, and plenty sufficient for school.

1660 Ti is great for 1080p, but if you are planning to go 1440p, an RX 5700 (non-XT model) would be better if you can find one reasonably priced (no more than $350). If you can't then 1660 Ti is fine, just expect to turn settings down at 1440p for newer titles that come out. You mentioned using this PC for a couple years, so honestly no big deal, stick to the cheaper card if you are going to upgrade in a couple years anyway.

My only other advice would be to forgo the small SSD + HDD and just get a single higher capacity SSD and add a HDD if you really need it later down the road. But honestly, not a big deal either way. You know better your storage needs.

Overall looks good. Assuming you have a case already? Didn't see one in the list.
Thank you for the confirmation. I wasn't sure how good the motherboard, video card might be. Since mom and dad are fronting the money, he is still working on putting together a new list of components for a bigger and better build. lol

Interesting comment about the SSD + HDD. My thoughts were using the current 1TB HD for storage and getting the SSD for software thinking that will help keep things loading quickly. Will have to dig deeper into a higher capacity SSD.

Initial plan was to re-use the Phantom case with the list I linked above. That has been scrapped and he has found a new case that he wants. All I remember is that is a Lian Li and the pic he showed me, it had nine fans installed.
My only comment is the dual monitors. I mean, he has this Sammy already? He knows how big it is? As the #1 biggest fan of dualies as I affectionately call it, once you get to 27", a second monitor becomes much less important.
I have 2 24's at work and one 27 at home.
Yes, he has the Sammy and knows the size. When I asked him about another 27", he said too big and that he is looking for a 24" with 1440p capability. Again, the 27" is going to be for schoolwork, web browsing, etc..
 

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
Contributor
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
Great analysis as always, would you say Ampere is significantly better at 4K vs Big Navi? Do you think there is any benefit to going all AMD vs Ryzen paired with Ampere? Ampere works with AMD's FreeSync correct..?

What are your thoughts on Apple's new M1 desktop processor and its performance (so far)? I wonder how it will affect and or influence PC hardware and gaming.

This entirely will depend on use care scenarios really.

AMD Ryzen 5000 paired with an RX 6000 card will have the benefit of Smart Access Memory. As a feature, for some games it won't matter at all, other games benefit greatly from it (~10% faster, etc.). That said, Nvidia has claimed to also be working on a similar feature that they hope to implement on both Intel and AMD platforms. Future state, both camps should have this feature or a version of it as it's essentially a PCI-E feature that AMD is just now taking advantage of, so for now it is a benefit of Ryzen + Radeon. Personally that is not an end all be all feature for me since both camps will have it in the future and game benefits vary greatly from title to title.

4k definitely favors Ampere mainly due to Ampere's architecture. The way Ampere works, it has a hard time fully utilizing all its cores at 1080p and 1440p, but at 4k can really start making full use of them and thus performs well. So the best way to look at Ampere is to take its 4k performance as a baseline and then see that it doesn't scale down to 1440p and 1080p well. Big Navi on the other hand scales its performance across all 3 resolutions well, however at 4k Ampere does a bit better.

Ray Tracing. If this is a feature you care about in the here and now, then I think you rally have to go Ampere. Big titles like Cyberpunk 2077 have confirmed that Nvidia RTX is the only ray tracing they'll support at launch as they work on implementing AMD ray tracing support in the future. This being AMD's first foray into ray tracing, Nvidia definitely has the performance advantage since this is their second gen. There is also the DLSS factor which will boost frames to help counteract the performance hit. AMD will have a similar feature in the future, but doesn't have it yet.

If you don't care about Ray Tracing, then a straight up rasterization apples to apples comparison at 1080p and 1440p, and even 4k, I think it just comes down to what performs better in benchmarks for what you like to play and also looking at driver states in the coming weeks/months. I will say AMD historically has had rocky launches from a driver perspective but over time tend to get better and unlock more performance. This is often called the "fine wine" effect. No guarantee that will happen here, but I would expect as they continue to optimize and enhance drivers they will get better. Nvidia tends to have more stable drivers at launch and will likewise have enhancements and optimizations, but aren't typically known to have the same "fine wine" effect AMD cards have had. You can see historically that at launch the GTX 680 soundly beat the 7970 but over time that pretty much reversed where the 7970 soundly beat it. More recent the 5700 and 5700 XT competed with the 2060 and 2070 respectively at launch but now the 5700 can compete well against the 2070 and the 5700 XT can compete well against the 2070 Super and 2080.

I don't actually know much about Freesync/Gsync to be honest, so I am not going to comment on that. I don't know the answer to your question there.

As a PC enthusiast I don't really follow Apple much as I philosophically am opposed to a "closed" source model like them. I believe in user serviceability and customization. That said, if I recall their new processors are ARM based? I think x86 definitely has reason to be worried about that. ARM and ARM like platforms are definitely going to get bigger and x86 need to be careful if they don't want to go the way of the dodo. That though, won't happen anytime soon. Also Nvidia owns ARM now so I think you will see some wariness of adopting ARM for that reason and you'll instead see other similar platforms rise up as well. RISC style architectures are definitely going to become more prevalent in my outlook especially with Apple adopting ARM in personal computing laptop/desktop products. For them, I think it honestly makes a lot of sense as they can now apply their mobile App Store and apps across their non-mobile platforms. I'm sure that will need some work on the part of the app devs to adopt their apps to laptops/desktops, and I'm sure we'll have to wait and see how Pro apps end up doing on these chips, but I definitely thinking ARM/RISC has a bright future and x86 needs to be careful.

Thank you for the confirmation. I wasn't sure how good the motherboard, video card might be. Since mom and dad are fronting the money, he is still working on putting together a new list of components for a bigger and better build. lol

Interesting comment about the SSD + HDD. My thoughts were using the current 1TB HD for storage and getting the SSD for software thinking that will help keep things loading quickly. Will have to dig deeper into a higher capacity SSD.

Initial plan was to re-use the Phantom case with the list I linked above. That has been scrapped and he has found a new case that he wants. All I remember is that is a Lian Li and the pic he showed me, it had nine fans installed.

Yes, he has the Sammy and knows the size. When I asked him about another 27", he said too big and that he is looking for a 24" with 1440p capability. Again, the 27" is going to be for schoolwork, web browsing, etc..

Well the OS should be installed on the SSD, and definitely programs/games as well. It used to and probably still largely doesn't matter if a game is installed on SSD vs HDD, but new platforms have technology to boost load times when SSD's are used, so it would definitely be a more future proof path to go on a performance front. You do lose overall capacity though, so there is that factor.

Is it a Lian Li O-11 Dynamic (or XL)? Great case, its what I am using now. It has capacity for 9 fans.
 
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7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
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Land of Cleve
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2016.5 CX5
Yes, he has the Sammy and knows the size. When I asked him about another 27", he said too big and that he is looking for a 24" with 1440p capability. Again, the 27" is going to be for schoolwork, web browsing, etc..

Again as the #1 fan of dualies: I always recommend getting identical monitors. ;)
 

CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
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2008 MX-5 SE
Again as the #1 fan of dualies: I always recommend getting identical monitors. ;)
So, want to buy a lightly used 27" Sammy? Haha. Monitor he has listed is only 1080p, have to ask him if he overlooked that.

I agree about identical monitors, having different ones would drive me crazy. The bonus is that I'd upgrade from the Acer to the Sammy when working from home. 🤗
 

CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
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2008 MX-5 SE
Just talked to him regarding the monitor. We are going to shop for a 1440p model later and maybe get two. I could see his eyes light up over the phone when I said it. haha Then he follows it up with "three monitor set-up....". He now has the bright idea to use one 24" for gaming, the other 24" for school, streaming, etc. and the 27" Sammy for watching football. 🤦‍♂️

I searched Lian Li cases and found their website and their PC desk!? Oh my.......must resist!
 

7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
:
Land of Cleve
:
2016.5 CX5
So, want to buy a lightly used 27" Sammy? Haha. Monitor he has listed is only 1080p, have to ask him if he overlooked that.
LOL!!!

Re: Build. I actually have the previous gen (or 2 back maybe?) of the Mobo and it is EXCELLENT. Good price on the RAM. I don't usually recommend 'designer RAM' but for that price, no reason not to.

Yea, that's a pretty solid build. That's going to rock for some time.

Two suggestions but nowhere near mandatory.
Personally, I would find a way to squeeze an i7 in there. I know a 9th gen i5 is quality, but I just have a thing about the i7 being the minimum for my builds.

Second I highly recommend spending a few dollars more on a quality mechanical keyboard.
I know it seems a bit pricey and this one has Cherry switches (there are different kinds of switches for Mech Keyboards, Cherry being more high end) but they are more durable, better to type on, feel better and are just more accurate. Keys are easily replaceable and the thing about a good quality keyboard that is almost always overlooked by most reviewers you will find: they last forever. He will have this for his next 3-4 computers, if not forever. The keys are replaceable and you can pop 'em on and off easily to clean under them. Totally worth it.

He might want to consider a Nostromo too:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004AM5RB6/?tag=m20b7-20
Love mine. :D

https://amzn.to/2V3pAXH
You can buy aftermarket keys for them, too. I have these that change the feel of WASD...
makes them easy to find.
Sorry to try and get you to spend MORE money hahaha, but seriously: this thing will last forever.
 
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CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
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2008 MX-5 SE
LOL!!!

Re: Build. I actually have the previous gen (or 2 back maybe?) of the Mobo and it is EXCELLENT. Good price on the RAM. I don't usually recommend 'designer RAM' but for that price, no reason not to.

Yea, that's a pretty solid build. That's going to rock for some time.

Two suggestions but nowhere near mandatory.
Personally, I would find a way to squeeze an i7 in there. I know a 9th gen i5 is quality, but I just have a thing about the i7 being the minimum for my builds.

Second I highly recommend spending a few dollars more on a quality mechanical keyboard.
I know it seems a bit pricey and this one has Cherry switches (there are different kinds of switches for Mech Keyboards, Cherry being more high end) but they are more durable, better to type on, feel better and are just more accurate. Keys are easily replaceable and the thing about a good quality keyboard that is almost always overlooked by most reviewers you will find: they last forever. He will have this for his next 3-4 computers, if not forever. The keys are replaceable and you can pop 'em on and off easily to clean under them. Totally worth it.

He might want to consider a Nostromo too:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004AM5RB6/?tag=m20b7-20
Love mine. :D

https://amzn.to/2V3pAXH
You can buy aftermarket keys for them, too. I have these that change the feel of WASD...
makes them easy to find.
Sorry to try and get you to spend MORE money hahaha, but seriously: this thing will last forever.
That is nice to hear! If dropping this kind of coin, I want to make sure it will be decent for awhile.

Thanks for the suggestions, they are always welcome and helpful!

I was wondering about the i5 and if going i7 would be a better route. Will have to look at the i7 offerings to compare to the i5 he has picked.

Talked with him about keyboards a few days ago and at that time he mentioned not going too extreme with one for now. Will discuss again later. IMO, worth spending a little more now to get something that will last longer.

That Nostromo is a crazy piece of work! First time I have ever seen one and will show it to him for sure.

Hey, always easy to spend other people's money! lol
Wait, so he's going to game WHILE in SCHOOL!?!?! DAD!
LOL Well, due to C, he has been doing his schooling remotely this semester and looks like he will for the next one too. I think it's more of a "look at my dualies". Our son will work on a paper or study for an exam while listening to a Joe Rogan podcast and maintains the grades so we don't question it. Our daughter is the same way and will have the TV going plus music while studying. She made Dean's list every semester but her first during undergraduate school and graduates with her Master's in June.

Me, I had to have quiet in order to focus/concentrate. If the TV was on, I found myself watching it and if music was playing I was singing along and jamming out.

edit - Well the 2070 video card is OOS at Staples for the $459 price. I am seeing it around $700-$800 at other sellers. Better to just shop for the 3070 at that price point?
 

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
Contributor
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
@ColoradoDriver
👍 Thank you for all the tips! Here is a new list he has put together. Since I last talked to him about it, he has changed the case. Also, might need to option the video card for 3 HDMI ports. Going to sit down tomorrow night with him to finalize things and get them ordered!

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8phh3Z

Sure thing!

Looks like a great list for the most part.

The Corsair CX Power Supply gave me pause as historically the CX model line has not been very good or is hit and miss on quality, but looking up on Johnny Guru, looks like the important bits are rated well enough for this model/price range with the exception that it'll likely only deliver ~650W at greater than 30C operating temps. See: https://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2015/03/02/corsair-cx750m-750w-power-supply/

My honest advice, bump the budget slightly and look and see if you can find a Corsair TX750M for around $120ish or less. Excellent, highly rated power supply. C (human malware) has disrupted PC part market so if not no big deal. Prices have risen on parts like PSUs and a lot of them are hard to find. I wouldn't pay more than $120ish for it as its normally a $100 PSU in a normal market.

My only recommendation, but not a showstopper.
 

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
Contributor
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
https://amzn.to/2V3pAXH
You can buy aftermarket keys for them, too. I have these that change the feel of WASD...
makes them easy to find.

I have a several years old Corsair K70 with the Cherry MX-Red switches. Love this keyboard. It came with those different keycaps as an option, I put them on WASD. Love it. Makes it very easy to find these keys tactilely when gaming.
 

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
Contributor
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
edit - Well the 2070 video card is OOS at Staples for the $459 price. I am seeing it around $700-$800 at other sellers. Better to just shop for the 3070 at that price point?
Doubt you'll find a 3070 or be able to get your hands on one anytime soon to be honest.
 

CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
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2008 MX-5 SE
Will look into the power supply later as we go through his list. 👍

Playing around on pcpartpicker and found an MSI GeForce RTX3070 8GB Ventus 3X OC Video Card for $880 on Amazon. Is this a comparable 3070 to others? Is MSI better than Gigabyte? Just how many variations of each card are there....it's enough to drive one mad! lol

 

7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
:
Land of Cleve
:
2016.5 CX5
Both brands are top notch and I couldn't recommend one over they other. They are both that good.

I have a several years old Corsair K70 with the Cherry MX-Red switches. Love this keyboard. It came with those different keycaps as an option, I put them on WASD. Love it. Makes it very easy to find these keys tactilely when gaming.
Quoted for truth. Really is kind of must have.
And I don't have Cherries...

Even a cheap no name brand Mech Keyb will outlast several PC's.
 

ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
Will look into the power supply later as we go through his list. 👍

Playing around on pcpartpicker and found an MSI GeForce RTX3070 8GB Ventus 3X OC Video Card for $880 on Amazon. Is this a comparable 3070 to others? Is MSI better than Gigabyte? Just how many variations of each card are there....it's enough to drive one mad! lol

I don't have much personal experience with either brand. My one time experience with an MSI motherboard was in 2008 for a Core 2 Duo build and it was DOA. Have been on ASUS ever since. From what I've seen though, MSI and Gigabyte are fine and make great products. Every now and then you just get unlucky with a DOA board out of the box. When it comes to graphics cards you more or less are just comparing which models have the better coolers and warranty support if ever needed.

MSI has been under some heat lately with questionable tactics towards reviewers, but they otherwise make good stuff.

And under no circumstance should you pay $880 for a 3070. Absolute price gouging there. MSRP of a Founder's edition 3070 is $499. AIB partner models should range from $520ish - $650ish. $880 is highway robbery and that's really a scalper price since you can't find these cards anywhere from normal retailers right now.

For comparison a 3080 MSRP for FE model is $699 and goes up from there for AIB partner models. So that should tell you $880 for a 3070 is crazy.
 
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ColoradoDriver

Gen-1 Kodo Design
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Denver, CO
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2014 CX-5 Touring
Two suggestions but nowhere near mandatory.
Personally, I would find a way to squeeze an i7 in there. I know a 9th gen i5 is quality, but I just have a thing about the i7 being the minimum for my builds.
Depends on how much you wanna spend.

For $200, the i5-9600k is great. If you wanted to bump that budget to $280 you could make a case for the i5-10600k, but that's not far from $300 at which point you are better off going Ryzen 5 5600X. If you wanted to go $350-$400 then I'd compare 5600X to i7-10700k and choose based on what you play.

But if gaming is the most demanding thing for this system (also assuming no streaming on Twitch or something, etc.) then the i5 is great, dump more $$$ in the graphics card.

The i5-9600k is a 6-core/6 thread part and the i5-10600k is a 6-core/12-thread part. For gaming you don't absolutely need an i7 anymore like you did in the days when i5's were straight quad cores and i7's were hyperthreaded quad cores.
 
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CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
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2008 MX-5 SE
@7eregrine @ColoradoDriver
Good stuff guys! Still researching a bit regarding the video card. At the moment I have only been looking at pcpartpicker for pricing. That is where I got the $880 for the 3070 card. They listed the 2070 at Staples for $459 but OOS. Only other price I saw for it there was $767 on Amazon. Judging by your response in price to the 3080, I am guessing that $767 for the 2070 is ludicrous as well. :)

I was looking at the i7 9700K but at $75 more than the i5 it doesn't seem like a good deal. If upgrading to the i7, I think the 10700K is better but add $100. Knowing the i5 will work just fine I'm inclined to throw that extra hundy at something else.
 
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