Radar Cruise Control

Ronzuki

South Central PA
:
2018 CX5 Touring
:
w/ Pref Pkg
I actually get lulled into going slower than I want to and for that reason I prefer "regular" cruise control.

And there it is...the distraction assist. I've experienced this as well...and that would mean I was operating my machine distracted and not paying attention.

I prefer RACC on the straighter 2-lane state roads at the lower speeds 35-50mph. It does a good job of delivering better over-all fuel economy on my daily commutes than I do most weeks w/ my right foot. Highway speeds, I don't use RACC at all due to the speeds and its non-existent peripheral awareness. I'll use std. CC if it's not too crowded. At highway speeds I'm driving thus I'm paying attention to what's going on all around me.
 
And there it is...the distraction assist. I've experienced this as well...and that would mean I was operating my machine distracted and not paying attention.

I prefer RACC on the straighter 2-lane state roads at the lower speeds 35-50mph. It does a good job of delivering better over-all fuel economy on my daily commutes than I do most weeks w/ my right foot. Highway speeds, I don't use RACC at all due to the speeds and its non-existent peripheral awareness. I'll use std. CC if it's not too crowded. At highway speeds I'm driving thus I'm paying attention to what's going on all around me.

This is a glass half empty view. To claim people who use Mazdas Radar CC are essentially "distracted drivers" is bs. You have also talked ill about blind side warning and other driver assists.

Go back and look at aviation. No question overall safety in the sky has massively been aided by computer systems in the last 30+ years.

I would feel much safer on the roads knowing all cars around me were functioning with driver aids on. Cant even tell you how many people just today on the highway drove wrecklessly in full "MANUAL" human mode. Its not even close in terms of safer driving frankly.

If the driver is properly using Mazdas radar CC, they will maintain a safe distance and safe lane changes. (Mazdas BSM system is very cautious) A huge improvement over all the manual drivers cutting off each other forcing white knuckle moments.
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
:
2018 CX5 Touring
:
w/ Pref Pkg
Go back and look at aviation. No question overall safety in the sky has massively been aided by computer systems in the last 30+ years.

Yes, I've looked at automation of many many things over the past 30 years. The question is have you, really? I've been automating people right out of their jobs for that long as well. Sorry to inform you, but we've pretty much hit the apex of "aided by" and crossed over to the dark side of 'automation knows best' realm, in all sectors. When a commercial airline pilot, who actually is capable of the act of flying aircraft, tells me he's tired of fighting against the planes trying to kill him (and retires, early), what do you believe that to mean?
How many times must this comparison be made in these discussions...do you really know and completely understand why an entire fleet of (half-azzed) over-automated aircraft are still sitting on the ground? First and foremost, short answer, they got caught being stupid, greedy, and cheap. Aside from that, there's not enough time for me to beat the hell out of my keyboard to educate you technically.

If the driver is properly using Mazdas radar CC, they will...

This is rich..."if the driver"... haha, big frigging IF. Please, remove head from sand. If all of the dead Tesla passengers (they weren't driving so we can't refer to them as drivers...possibly operators) were properly using the auto-pilot... that Elon says isn't an auto-pilot... Haha...
Well, your honor, if the operator hadn't stuck his hand in the machine's, moving parts, he wouldn't haven't lost it. That'll go over real well, wouldn't you say?

My job as an automation engineer is to look at glasses 3/4 empty. If I don't, some moron will always think the glass is full, the world is perfect, and then it's my azz and others in similar positions that are put to blame. Certainly not the negligent operators, god-forbid. Unfortunately, looking at the glasses as they should viewed takes time and costs money, therefore, your perceived safety of the automation kinda-sorta goes by the wayside more often than not. You, Mr. Consumer, won't truly know this because I, Mr. Manufacturer, don't want you to. It's really that simple. Of course, you don't seem to understand, because if you did, you wouldn't be making such statements.

Here's my recommendation,... You don't want to drive a car anymore, fine, that's your prerogative. Move to a city and ride a bus, train, or subway. Mass transit is your friend. Leave the roads to people that don't want to be chauffeured around by automation or pay for its constraints. That's what automation is, a series of constraints. And please, quit thinking that this low-budget automotive over-automation is the answer to all of our safety problems, because I'm here to tell you, it's a fool's errand.
 
:
2019 Mazda CX-5 GTR
I love driving, but hate commuting. RACC does an amazing job of making my commute more bearable. Yes, it will bring my GTR to a complete stop as needed. Yes, it maximizes fuel efficiency. Yes, it keeps me from dealing with the stop & go traffic as I get closer to my office.

Yes, it disables itself under 20mph when the front sensor is covered in snow, but you know what??? I don't see myself using CC at all when it's snowing!

As to paying attention, I consider myself to be a very focused driver. With the HUD I am always aware of what speed I traveling at, regardless of whether RACC is on or off.
 
Yes, I've looked at automation of many many things over the past 30 years. The question is have you, really? I've been automating people right out of their jobs for that long as well. Sorry to inform you, but we've pretty much hit the apex of "aided by" and crossed over to the dark side of 'automation knows best' realm, in all sectors. When a commercial airline pilot, who actually is capable of the act of flying aircraft, tells me he's tired of fighting against the planes trying to kill him (and retires, early), what do you believe that to mean?
How many times must this comparison be made in these discussions...do you really know and completely understand why an entire fleet of (half-azzed) over-automated aircraft are still sitting on the ground? First and foremost, short answer, they got caught being stupid, greedy, and cheap. Aside from that, there's not enough time for me to beat the hell out of my keyboard to educate you technically.



This is rich..."if the driver"... haha, big frigging IF. Please, remove head from sand. If all of the dead Tesla passengers (they weren't driving so we can't refer to them as drivers...possibly operators) were properly using the auto-pilot... that Elon says isn't an auto-pilot... Haha...
Well, your honor, if the operator hadn't stuck his hand in the machine's, moving parts, he wouldn't haven't lost it. That'll go over real well, wouldn't you say?

My job as an automation engineer is to look at glasses 3/4 empty. If I don't, some moron will always think the glass is full, the world is perfect, and then it's my azz and others in similar positions that are put to blame. Certainly not the negligent operators, god-forbid. Unfortunately, looking at the glasses as they should viewed takes time and costs money, therefore, your perceived safety of the automation kinda-sorta goes by the wayside more often than not. You, Mr. Consumer, won't truly know this because I, Mr. Manufacturer, don't want you to. It's really that simple. Of course, you don't seem to understand, because if you did, you wouldn't be making such statements.

Here's my recommendation,... You don't want to drive a car anymore, fine, that's your prerogative. Move to a city and ride a bus, train, or subway. Mass transit is your friend. Leave the roads to people that don't want to be chauffeured around by automation or pay for its constraints. That's what automation is, a series of constraints. And please, quit thinking that this low-budget automotive over-automation is the answer to all of our safety problems, because I'm here to tell you, it's a fool's errand.

You have a very extreme view of driver/safety aids. That's your choice to enable or disable them.
Just go ahead and observe what happens around you in the real world.....I see MUCH poorer examples of 100% human manual driving then if safety aides are being used. Perhaps its because I drive hundreds of miles per week for my job and am a defensive driver, but its not even close.

The problem with your attacks on safety aids is you disregard all human error from the view.

I'll stand totally behind my belief the aids Mazda has incorporated are a GOOD thing and not some half baked system that makes driving more dangerous.
 

dwm

2019 CX-5 Signature Soul Red
And there it is...the distraction assist. I've experienced this as well...and that would mean I was operating my machine distracted and not paying attention.

I prefer RACC on the straighter 2-lane state roads at the lower speeds 35-50mph. It does a good job of delivering better over-all fuel economy on my daily commutes than I do most weeks w/ my right foot. Highway speeds, I don't use RACC at all due to the speeds and its non-existent peripheral awareness. I'll use std. CC if it's not too crowded. At highway speeds I'm driving thus I'm paying attention to what's going on all around me.

When I said "
I actually get lulled into going slower than I want to and for that reason I prefer "regular" cruise control." I am not in any way distracted by RAAC or do I think it aids distraction. I have the HUD and stay alert to road conditions. The problem is that following traffic that is GRADUALLY slowing down is sometimes imperceptible due to the smooth ride and the fact that RAAC is also accurate in maintaining a set distance. I prefer to SEE that I am gaining on slowing traffic and make the decision to slow down myself or pass the traffic and therefore like standard cruise control on long distance highway trips. I think RAAC is great in stop and go traffic or where there are traffic jams on a highway trip or commute trip.
 
:
2014 & 2019 CX-5 Touring(s)
When I said "
I actually get lulled into going slower than I want to and for that reason I prefer "regular" cruise control." I am not in any way distracted by RAAC or do I think it aids distraction. I have the HUD and stay alert to road conditions. The problem is that following traffic that is GRADUALLY slowing down is sometimes imperceptible due to the smooth ride and the fact that RAAC is also accurate in maintaining a set distance. I prefer to SEE that I am gaining on slowing traffic and make the decision to slow down myself or pass the traffic and therefore like standard cruise control on long distance highway trips. I think RAAC is great in stop and go traffic or where there are traffic jams on a highway trip or commute trip.
I completely agree with this - both the occurrence and that it does not imply distraction.
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
:
2018 CX5 Touring
:
w/ Pref Pkg
You have a very extreme view of driver/safety aids. That's your choice to enable or disable them.
Just go ahead and observe what happens around you in the real world.....I see MUCH poorer examples of 100% human manual driving then if safety aides are being used. Perhaps its because I drive hundreds of miles per week for my job and am a defensive driver, but its not even close.

The problem with your attacks on safety aids is you disregard all human error from the view.

I'll stand totally behind my belief the aids Mazda has incorporated are a GOOD thing and not some half baked system that makes driving more dangerous.

First, I'll ask again, who is deeming these novelties as safety rated? There are very specific criteria involved in automation to imply, deem, or install systems rated as such. I see zero evidence that any of these systems comply with any regulatory body certifying this garbage as 'safety' rated. So please, cease referring to this "stuff" as safety! You are spreading mis-information.

I have a very realistic view of what automation does to any skill set in the REAL world. It promotes the human error you and everyone else are so concerned about, like it or not, want it or not. You apparently aren't getting it...the more humans do not do anything for themselves, the less capable they become at the task, any task, should they need to. The more nanny-minders added to cars, the worse the operator's driving skills become at executing the task, because they don't have to...until they must. Too late. As I say I've been involved in every level of automation for far longer than the automotive world has thought about it. I've designed it, programmed it, installed it, commissioned it, fought with it, lived w/ it, trained operators how to use it, taught maintenance on how to troubleshoot and fix it, and most importantly, in all that time, observed and learned what tech works what doesn't, when automation provides beneficial assistance, and under what circumstances and when it doesn't. Experience. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I've lived the results, the re-designs, the expense, the lawyers, all to fix stupid. It's a viscous cycle that can't be won. Throw in schedules, budgets and profitability into the equation, and you end up w/ half-baked systems more times than not. You're attempting to explain to me that which I've already been experiencing my entire working career. I'm attempting to open YOUR eyes to the reality.

The real problem no one is addressing, here or elsewhere, is: what are all of the operators to do when the automation fails because their skills, well, suck? Oh yeah...it's called crash. What happens to an aircraft when the automation fails (or was efed right from the start) and the operators in the planes (no longer pilots since they really don't fly the things anymore) really don't have the experience to fly the plane, or as we are beginning to see in the spotlight, simply can't because the designs are overly reliant on the automation to keep the plane in the air? Oh yeah...crash.

I agree, I see the degredation of human driving skills every day as well (don't know how exactly you would know who is driving 100% manual, or not, distracted, or not). I sit behind people daily sitting at lights not moving, holding up traffic, because they're pre-occupioed looking at their dumb-phone. People can't back out of my driveway w/o weaving all over the place, even w/ a back-up camera. Then there's that...tech can't fix the real problems here. This poor performance is being supported by distraction promoting technologies (because all that marketing crap sells cars, phones etc.).

Ever go to a store and hand someone additional change along w/ the larger bills to get an even dollar in return as opposed to a handful of change? You know, after they've already prematurely keyed in the cash tendered? The results for any task are the same...brain freeze, can't comprehend, they give up, and storm off to go find the manger. 15-20 years ago I used to think it was funny. Not anymore. Technology isn't going to fix that. The cash register is progress technology that has assisted in turning our brains to mush. Then we get to my age and I have to hear about brain exercises...that's funny in terms of human progress wouldn't you agree?


When I said "
I actually get lulled into going slower than I want to and for that reason I prefer "regular" cruise control." I am not in any way distracted by RAAC or do I think it aids distraction. I have the HUD and stay alert to road conditions. The problem is that following traffic that is GRADUALLY slowing down is sometimes imperceptible due to the smooth ride and the fact that RAAC is also accurate in maintaining a set distance. I prefer to SEE that I am gaining on slowing traffic and make the decision to slow down myself or pass the traffic and therefore like standard cruise control on long distance highway trips. I think RAAC is great in stop and go traffic or where there are traffic jams on a highway trip or commute trip.

Agreed. Only difference, my car doesn't have a HUD. I've mentioned this little automation issue before as well...lack of automotive automation standardization. It's a problem from an automation perspective. So your HUD isn't there or stops working, now were equal. Your foot and brain aren't connected to the throttle and you're gaining or slowing w/o conscious awareness. Foot and Brain are the human I/O and processor which is now not controlling the task. OK. but you are technically distracted, your thoughts are elsewhere because your brain isn't focused on the act of driving. I realize it is happening after the fact as well when I'm utilizing the RACC.
 
:
Ottawa, Ontario
:
17 Mazda 6 GT
Ever go to a store and hand someone additional change along w/ the larger bills to get an even dollar in return as opposed to a handful of change? You know, after they've already prematurely keyed in the cash tendered? The results for any task are the same...brain freeze, can't comprehend, they give up, and storm off to go find the manager. 15-20 years ago I used to think it was funny. Not anymore. Technology isn't going to fix that. The cash register is progress technology that has assisted in turning our brains to mush. Then we get to my age and I have to hear about brain exercises...that's funny in terms of human progress wouldn't you agree?
Oh ya, been there.
Not that long ago I was buying some small items at a grocery store, and the cashier was a young girl, probably still in her teens.
She rang up my small purchase and keyed in what she thought I was tendering.
I then added 26 cents to my tender, to round out the change coming back to me.
She totally panicked and freaked out. She had no idea what to do, and even though I tried to help her, she actually started crying.
A manager had to come over to settle her down and help with the math.
She was 100% relying on the cash register to do the calculations.
I was stunned to be honest. I know basic math skills are not taught in schools anymore, but didn't realize how bad it could be.
 
:
Ottawa, Ontario
:
17 Mazda 6 GT
When a commercial airline pilot, who actually is capable of the act of flying aircraft, tells me he's tired of fighting against the planes trying to kill him (and retires, early), what do you believe that to mean?
How many times must this comparison be made in these discussions...do you really know and completely understand why an entire fleet of (half-azzed) over-automated aircraft are still sitting on the ground? First and foremost, short answer, they got caught being stupid, greedy, and cheap. Aside from that, there's not enough time for me to beat the hell out of my keyboard to educate you technically.
I can't begin to tell you how refreshing it is to read your posts.
Most of the time I just scan through (or skip) long posts without really digesting them.
Yours are extremely well written and to the point, bang on the money.

On a side note and probably off topic,
I'm a big fan of a show called "Mayday". It chronicles plane crashes, and the subsequent investigation and results of why it crashed.
A majority of them are human error involving misinterpretations of the technology, or lack of knowledge of the technology, or even lack of basic flying skills and knowledge of the pilots on how an aircraft actually stays in the air.
They are trained on how to fly a computer, not an airplane.
One very interesting episode involved the crash of Air France 447 (airbus 330) in 2009.
An entirely preventable incident.
From the report:
"The BEA's final report, released on 5 July 2012, concluded that the aircraft crashed after temporary inconsistencies between the airspeed measurements—likely due to the aircraft's pitot tubes being obstructed by ice crystals—caused the autopilot to disconnect, after which the crew reacted incorrectly and ultimately caused the aircraft to enter an aerodynamic stall, from which it did not recover. "
In a nutshell, all the crew had to do was manually maintain a steady level flight path.
In other words, fly the damn plane.
They panicked, and put the plane into a stall, and the first officer had no clue how to fly it out of that stall. Flying 101.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
I like safety tech. Has it's place. Far from perfect.
Supplements our skills, not supplants.

I would not have paid separately for most of the tech that came with my Reserve, but I really like it now that I have it. The only thing I have not tried is Lane Keep Assist, and that's because there are few lane markers where I live.

I really like the Blind Sport Monitoring because I'm a habitual turn signal user (I even reflexively signal when pulling out of my driveway.) I like the ♪Beep♪Beep♪Beep♪ when I signal to lane change and there's a car in that lane. Just an added layer...
 
I can't begin to tell you how refreshing it is to read your posts.
Most of the time I just scan through (or skip) long posts without really digesting them.
Yours are extremely well written and to the point, bang on the money.

On a side note and probably off topic,
I'm a big fan of a show called "Mayday". It chronicles plane crashes, and the subsequent investigation and results of why it crashed.
A majority of them are human error involving misinterpretations of the technology, or lack of knowledge of the technology, or even lack of basic flying skills and knowledge of the pilots on how an aircraft actually stays in the air.
They are trained on how to fly a computer, not an airplane.
One very interesting episode involved the crash of Air France 447 (airbus 330) in 2009.
An entirely preventable incident.
From the report:
"The BEA's final report, released on 5 July 2012, concluded that the aircraft crashed after temporary inconsistencies between the airspeed measurements—likely due to the aircraft's pitot tubes being obstructed by ice crystals—caused the autopilot to disconnect, after which the crew reacted incorrectly and ultimately caused the aircraft to enter an aerodynamic stall, from which it did not recover. "
In a nutshell, all the crew had to do was manually maintain a steady level flight path.
In other words, fly the damn plane.
They panicked, and put the plane into a stall, and the first officer had no clue how to fly it out of that stall. Flying 101.

Since we are making these pilot error crashes merge with Mazda driver assists....the equivalent would be the Radar Cruise Control disables due to snow accumulation on the forward sensor (fact it can/will happen in snowy conditions)....the CX5 driver then is confused (doesnt know how to drive the car) and slams on the brakes or just lets off the gas coming to a complete stop. Resulting in a rear end impact from trailing traffic and a pile up on the freeway.

Back to planes. Fact is you would not have modern air travel today without automation. Lets be reasonable and realize (part) of why modern society has it so good is due to automation. Otherwise we would ALL be farmers growing crops to feed our families.
 
:
Ottawa, Ontario
:
17 Mazda 6 GT
Since we are making these pilot error crashes merge with Mazda driver assists....the equivalent would be the Radar Cruise Control disables due to snow accumulation on the forward sensor (fact it can/will happen in snowy conditions)....the CX5 driver then is confused (doesnt know how to drive the car) and slams on the brakes or just lets off the gas coming to a complete stop. Resulting in a rear end impact from trailing traffic and a pile up on the freeway.

Back to planes. Fact is you would not have modern air travel today without automation. Lets be reasonable and realize (part) of why modern society has it so good is due to automation. Otherwise we would ALL be farmers growing crops to feed our families.
That exact scenario (snow covered sensor) has happened to me several times. That's the price I pay for living in the great white North.
When the radar cruise kicked off, I didn't slam on the brakes or stop, like you suggest someone would do. I drove the car manually. (What a concept.)
If you have an understanding of how your car works, then there shouldn't be a problem when one of the nannies kicks out.
Same with planes. If you understand what keeps them in the air, and know how to fly it when the automation shut down, then there's no problem.
The issue today is that a lot of operators, drivers, pilots (cars, planes, whatever) have no clue what actually makes their machine work.
What they are doing is operating the automation and not the machine. That's how they're trained. Once that automation malfunctions, they're screwed.
My wife is a perfect example. She doesn't have a clue how the nannies work in the Mazda, and freaks out whenever it beeps, or flashes a message on the dash, or does something unexpected.
It scares me when she drives it.
That's how the Air France plane went down btw. The Captain was not in the cockpit when the autopilot shut off, and the two officers in control of the plane had no idea what to do.
They were not trained properly to fly the plane when not on autopilot.
After the speed sensor malfunctioned and the autopilot disengaged, for some reason, the co-pilot put the plane in a steep climb, until it stalled.
The plane then dropped like a pancake from 40,000 feet into the ocean.
All he had to do was point the nose down to get some air under the wings and regain some lift.
Instead, he panicked, and kept pulling back on the stick hoping it would somehow climb.
He didn't have an understanding of what keeps a plane in the air or how to get out of a stall.
Apparently, the Captain came back into the cockpit when he realized something was wrong, and by the time he figured it out, the plane didn't have enough altitude left to correct the problem.
There wasn't enough time or space to drop the nose and get some lift.
The plane hit the water with the copilot still pulling back on the stick.
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
:
2018 CX5 Touring
:
w/ Pref Pkg
Back to planes. Fact is you would not have modern air travel today without automation. Lets be reasonable and realize (part) of why modern society has it so good is due to automation. Otherwise we would ALL be farmers growing crops to feed our families.

Sure you would have air travel. The folks up front would have to fly the planes, just like they used to. Recall me stating we've hit the apex on how far our reliance of automation has progressed? And that now we're moving to the dark side of automation? @Buzzman12 gets it.

I am being reasonable and realize there are growing numbers of perfectly good reasons why I'm not at all interested in getting on any commercial aircraft any longer, after at least 2 decades of flying all over the place for business, unless absolutely necessary. Here's merely one of a thousand reasons that's not even tech related:


Modern air travel, not at all impressed. Just as I'm no longer impressed w/ modern automotive technology utilized for my everyday travel. Boeing can fiddle-fart around w/ their ballistic missile technology/software in that half-azzed flying death trap until the cows come home, I would never strap my azz into that thing, ever, after reading some of the reports. You know, when the people that worked on the aircraft's program go on record stating they'd never get on one...there's a serious problem w/ your modern air travel. These same issues are now being inserted in to the every day rolling road weapon.
 
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