Non-CD also in the US for 2020 Mazda3

shadonoz

SkyActiv Member
Contributor
:
State of Jefferson
:
2017 CX-5 GT AWD+
The same thing referenced in Canada with the GX is happening in the US to the 3s. The three lowest trim levels of 2020 FWD Mazda3 sedans also do not have cylinder deactivation. Only the top trim gets CD. Meanwhile, all of the AWD Mazda3s, sedan and hatch, get CD. FWD hatchbacks get CD, too.

We'll see if this expands to other models when the rest of the 20s are announced. CX-5 Sport maybe?

So wouldn't it be nice if they would just deplete their inventory of CD engines-- dump them on the higher trim levels, because it's a "desirable" feature LOL. Then get back to the proven design in 21 for all models [plus turbo, of course] while we wait for Skyactiv-X.

For that matter, maybe CD was always just intended as a stopgap until X is released.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
So let me do what I do best and ask a couple of silly questions, since I'm not real familiar with Mazdas.

CD has only come up in this forum in the context of the 2.5L in the CX-5.
-Are there other Mazda engines with CD besides the 2.5L?
-Are there any Model Year 2020 2.5L NA engines without CD being offered?
-Why do folks here think Mazda would manufacture the same size NA engine with and without CD? Are they trying to hit government numbers while reducing their exposure to this now-questionable technology?
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
So let me do what I do best and ask a couple of silly questions, since I'm not real familiar with Mazdas.

CD has only come up in this forum in the context of the 2.5L in the CX-5.
-Are there other Mazda engines with CD besides the 2.5L?
-Are there any Model Year 2020 2.5L NA engines without CD being offered?
-Why do folks here think Mazda would manufacture the same size NA engine with and without CD? Are they trying to hit government numbers while reducing their exposure to this now-questionable technology?
  1. No, there's no other engines from Mazda, other than SkyActiv-G 2.5L, has cylinder deactivation.
  2. In addition to three lowest trim levels of 2020 FWD Mazda3 sedans mentioned by shadonoz, it's too early to tell if Mazda would offer more non-CD 2.5L for other models in the US. In any event it's a step to the right direction for Mazda.
  3. Cylinder deactivatiuon improves ony 1 mpg on FWD CX-5 and 0 mpg on AWD CX-5. I doubt if cylinder deactivation can help much to meet future CAFE requirement. i-stop, where Mazda has been offering it in other regions, and the same feature also used by many other manufactures in the US, can do better with much less potential issues.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
  1. No, there's no other engines from Mazda, other than SkyActiv-G 2.5L, has cylinder deactivation.
  2. In addition to three lowest trim levels of 2020 FWD Mazda3 sedans mentioned by shadonoz, it's too early to tell if Mazda would offer more non-CD 2.5L for other models in the US. In any event it's a step to the right direction for Mazda.
  3. Cylinder deactivatiuon improves ony 1 mpg on FWD CX-5 and 0 mpg on AWD CX-5. I doubt if cylinder deactivation can help much to meet future CAFE requirement. i-stop, where Mazda has been offering it in other regions, and the same feature also used by many other manufactures in the US, can do better with much less potential issues.

Thanks for that.

I'm sure we all agree that there's no CAFE benefit.

So the question that I guess no one can really answer except Mazda is why they would continue to make a CD version of an engine that is produced without it, even without the known risk. Parallel production with no obvious benefit...makes no sense.
 

shadonoz

SkyActiv Member
Contributor
:
State of Jefferson
:
2017 CX-5 GT AWD+
Thanks for that.

I'm sure we all agree that there's no CAFE benefit.

So the question that I guess no one can really answer except Mazda is why they would continue to make a CD version of an engine that is produced without it, even without the known risk. Parallel production with no obvious benefit...makes no sense.

Mazda must think there are benefits, or, as you imply, they wouldn't do it. Because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to them. We don't have enough information to second guess them.

Producing both engines should not be such a big deal, since the primary differences are the valvetrain and control software and maybe some bolt-ons as far as I know. My pure speculation: they undoubtedly realized that CD was a disaster long before we were even aware of the problems. Maybe they're ramping up production of the old engine while they're preparing to phase out CD.

And there is a measurable CAFE benefit, albeit small. It may be big enough for Mazda's purposes at this time. Or maybe it's just all they can do to show they're moving forward on FE, while the X is still down the road. Anecdotally, the real world gains seem to be fairly significant for some drivers under certain conditions.

I don't pretend to know. Lots of possibilities. But it's intriguing and encouraging that the old engine is still available.
 
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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Thanks for that.

I'm sure we all agree that there's no CAFE benefit.

So the question that I guess no one can really answer except Mazda is why they would continue to make a CD version of an engine that is produced without it, even without the known risk. Parallel production with no obvious benefit...makes no sense.
For cylinder deactivation, not only the 2.5L has modified with CD components, but also the transmission gets modified to fight against vibration caused by CD. The surge of low speed transmission jerk complaints from 2018 and newer CX-5s IMO is also related to the transmission changes.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Mazda must think there are benefits, or, as you imply, they wouldn't do it. Because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to them. We don't have enough information to second guess them.

Producing both engines should not be such a big deal, since the primary differences are the valvetrain and control software as far as I know. My pure speculation: they undoubtedly realized that CD was a disaster long before we were even aware of the problems. Maybe they're ramping up production of the old engine while they're preparing to phase out CD.

And there is a measurable CAFE benefit, albeit small. It may be big enough for Mazda's purposes at this time. Or maybe it's just all they can do to show they're moving forward on FE, while the X is still down the road. Anecdotally, the real world gains seem to be fairly significant for some drivers under certain conditions.

I don't pretend to know. Lots of possibilities. But it's intriguing and encouraging that the old engine is still available.
If Mazda really wants such small benefit on CAFE, they should have introduced their i-stop and i-ELOOP available in other markets. These 2 features are not perfect, but have much less potential major problems after been tested in non-US markets for many years.
 

shadonoz

SkyActiv Member
Contributor
:
State of Jefferson
:
2017 CX-5 GT AWD+
If Mazda really wants such small benefit on CAFE, they should have introduced their i-stop and i-ELOOP available in other markets. These 2 features are not perfect, but have much less potential major problems after been tested in non-US markets for many years.

My impression was that people don't like i-stop....
Who knows why they done it. I just hope they're undoing it as we speak.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
My impression was that people don't like i-stop....
Who knows why they done it. I just hope they're undoing it as we speak.
Thats the thing, if you dont like i-stop, you can always disable it by simply pushing a button. But you cant do the same on cylinder deactivation. And all the drivetrain components added for CD such as HLA still could cause problem even if you found a way to disable the CD.

Further, Mazdas i-stop is pretty unique by using engine compressing for seamless engine re-start. Most people who have tried Mazdas i-stop like it and say its the best stop-start system available.

CX-5%2520Control%2520Buttons%2520-%2520France.jpg
 
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2019 CX-5 AWD
If there was an easy way to turn it off, I would. Count me among those who would much prefer a start/stop system, much better at saving fuel at stoplights. However, I'm not concerned about the CD. If you're worried about it, do a lease and you can decide if you want to keep it. It's been standard on all 2018+ models and there should be plenty of high mile ones and reliability data by then.

Here's the Consumer Reports CX-5 Reliability Report.

1QljxVb.jpg
 

Arcticshade

Contributor
:
2017 CX5 GT AWD w/ PP & 2016.5 CX5 GT AWD w/ Tech and Nav
If there was an easy way to turn it off, I would. Count me among those who would much prefer a start/stop system, much better at saving fuel at stoplights. However, I'm not concerned about the CD. If you're worried about it, do a lease and you can decide if you want to keep it. It's been standard on all 2018+ models and there should be plenty of high mile ones and reliability data by then.

Here's the Consumer Reports CX-5 Reliability Report.

1QljxVb.jpg

You know what surprises me? The great score on the paint/trim. With all the complaints on paint softness I thought it would reflect at consumer reports.
 
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Soon to be 2.5T CX-5
It should've never been introduced in the first place, so I guess this is a little step in the right direction, but not really.

You can keep the start/stop BS too. Please don't bring that here as well, or as a replacement.
 

sm1ke

Work In Progress..
Moderator
Contributor
:
Canada
:
'18 CX-9 Signature
For cylinder deactivation, not only the 2.5L has modified with CD components, but also the transmission gets modified to fight against vibration caused by CD. The surge of low speed transmission jerk complaints from 2018 and newer CX-5*s IMO is also related to the transmission changes.

Just curious, what exactly has been modified on the transmission for CD-equipped engines?
 
:
Mazda3
It should've never been introduced in the first place, so I guess this is a little step in the right direction, but not really.

You can keep the start/stop BS too. Please don't bring that here as well, or as a replacement.


Exactly. No CD, no start/stop BS either.
 
:
2019 Cx-5 sport
that's why I bought the sport cx5 2019 , because it had the fewest bs electronic gizmos.

and then after I buy it , I find out about CD...... very disappointed....... and yes, I done
a lot of research before buying

Guess we will know with 2020 models if Mazda gives a crap about consumers by getting
rid of the CD or not..........
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
It should've never been introduced in the first place, so I guess this is a little step in the right direction, but not really.

You can keep the start/stop BS too. Please don't bring that here as well, or as a replacement.
I actually wouldnt mind if Mazda brings in its i-stop into US market as its the best stop-start system available on the market. The reviews are all good as it uses combustion to restart the engine in about half the time of other conventional stop-start systems for seamless and instant engine re-start. Besides, you can always turn it off if you dont like it for some reason.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Just curious, what exactly has been modified on the transmission for CD-equipped engines?
MAZDAS NEW CYLINDER-DEACTIVATION OFFERS IMPROVED FUEL-EFFICIENCY WITHOUT SACRIFICING DRIVING PERFORMANCE

Inside Mazda said:
The challenge with four-cylinder deactivation is that an engine running on two cylinders is more likely to cause vibration. Mazdas breakthrough solution to compensate for this is to use a fulcrum inside the six-speed SKYACTIV-DRIVE automatic transmission, helping ensure seamless transition between two- and four-cylinder operation.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
and then after I buy it , I find out about CD...... very disappointed....... and yes, I done
a lot of research before buying

I almost did the same thing in 2018, except I opted for the turbo solely because I liked it better when I deferred my purchase into 2019 for unrelated reasons. Had the turbo not been introduced, I'd be the [naive] proud owned of a 2019 CD...and I researched off & on from the Summer of 2018 into the Spring of 2018.

There is very little said or promoted regarding the CD engine. When I later saw the potential bullet I dodged, I went back to see how I could have overlooked this. "Cylinder Deactivation" <i>is</i> there in the description of the engine in the online Build Your Own function, but it's not called out separately or as "<i>NEW FOR 2018!!!</i>" or in any way to draw your attention to it. It's just part of the generic spec. And being unfamiliar with the brand, I had no idea with was new technology.

I feel your pain, and hope this ends up being a big nothingburger for folks once the software is updated.
 
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2019 CX-5 AWD
You know what surprises me? The great score on the paint/trim. With all the complaints on paint softness I thought it would reflect at consumer reports.

From what I have seen, the vast majority of those with paint complaints have been with the Soul Red paint. I don't know if the process on that specific color has since been improved.

You want to see really crappy paint though, check out a tent-built Tesla Model 3 that will have all kinds of contaminants in the paint job itself.
 
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2019 CX-5 AWD
Even though I am not concerned about the CD, I really don't understand where there isn't a button to turn it off. I wouldn't mind pressing it every time after startup, just like the auto hold. It should be there, everyone would be happier.

That said, this technology is in several hundred thousand CX-5s produced worldwide. If there are problems, you'll hear about them on this forum.