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LOL @ Rav4

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Mazda3
First, I generally agree about staying away from CD, although I had a friend who loved the CD in his truck (I believe it was a 6 cylinder Dodge). He said it really boosted his highway mileage, and he often drove from Virginia to Wyoming, in addition to lots of local country road trips.

Regarding "masking" the problem, I'm not enough of a gear-head to agree or disagree. But how do you "mask" such a thing? The rocker arm either stays on or it doesn't...there's no turning up the stereo and singing loudly when it falls off.

What problem might still exists? I'm sure we would all like to see a physical attachment point for the rocker arm, but if Mazda has arrived at the proper oil pressure to keep it attached under "all" circumstances. I guess time will tell. Perhaps there still are rare conditions under which it might fall away. I don't know.

I don't know. All I know is pretty much every auto company has had trouble implementing CD. Then you add to the fact that the 2.5 is one of the few(maybe only) 4 cylinder engines in the world with it. And it only gets you 1 MPG in FWD and 0 MPG gain in AWD. What's the point of it? Just put out a damn hybrid like everyone else.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
I don't know. All I know is pretty much every auto company has had trouble implementing CD. Then you add to the fact that the 2.5 is one of the few(maybe only) 4 cylinder engines in the world with it. And it only gets you 1 MPG in FWD and 0 MPG gain in AWD. What's the point of it? Just put out a damn hybrid like everyone else.
Yup.

Makes one wonder why you would invest all that engineering time & energy. As I said before, when I was looking in 2018, Mazda didn't even use it for marketing hype. I didn't realize the CX-5 even had CD, much less just launch it.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
Yes indeed!
For those who are new to the brand, there was nothing I ever saw (or have seen since) where Mazda made particular note that CD was new for 2018. Heck, they didn't make a big deal out of the car even having this feature...it was just part of the description of the engine on a spec sheet.

When the CD issue hit, I went back and looked to see how I could have missed something that significant. Mazda treated it as "fine print" stuff. I'm still surprised this was not used for their marketing hype.

And as Bosetsu said, the turbo had already been in the CX-9s for a few years, event-free.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
ONE guy on the forum got an engine replacement. The CD issue has been remedied, there are hundreds of thousands of CD 2.5L engines in Mazda cars and the issues are actually few.

IF CD failure was a widespread issue, the amounts of failures would be constantly reported. But you found 1? That is nothing frankly.
IF CD failure was a widespread issue, the amounts of failures would be constantly reported. But you found 1? That is nothing frankly.
No, it was not just one, there're at least 5 engine replacements reported here due to rocker arm fallen caused by cylinder deactivation.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
And the issue has gone away since the PCM upgrade to the 2018s that were already on the road, the "on the lot" 2018s and "out of the factory" 2019s and 2020s.

Nary a peep.
We have no way to prove that at this time. It took about 12 months to have the issue of cylinder deactivation exposed since Mazda started selling 2018 CX-5 2.5L with CD. While the PCM software fixes may have resolved the issue, but as long as there’s no physical barrier like many other engines with CD to prevent rocket arm falling, there’s always a potential to let the rocker arm fall. And the historical long-term problems and class-action lawsuits on CD should be the good reasons to avoid the CD.

And I agree with Paulson, Mazda’s PCM software fixes could mask some of potential issues when they changed the oil pressures to HLA to resolve the falling rocker arm problem. Been a software engineer for many years, I also highly doubt a software update can truely fix a hardware problem.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
What a mess they have compared to the CX-5:
  • An engine block recall
  • A gas tank defect affecting 75% of owners, according to a poll on RAV4World.
  • Privacy concerns regarding their Safety Connect feature
  • Charging people a monthly subscription for a remote start app that doesn't work
  • Various assembly quirks, such as missing body panel gaskets, lack of hook insulation on some models, etc.
  • A poor quality infotainment setup and backup/360 cameras despite being a fresh redesign
Kinda puts things into perspective and also makes me a little skeptical of this Mazda-Toyota partnership.
On the list only one issue, engine block recall, caught my attention as others are minor, or really some of them are personal preference.

Over 44,000 cars and SUVs from the 2019 and 2020 model years which spread into many models of Toyota and Lexus, are being recalled due to this issue. But only about 250 out of the 44,191 recalled vehicles will actually need their engine replaced according to Toyota.

Because of a manufacturing error at a Toyota factory in Tennessee from Sep. to Dec, 2019 where the engine block manufactured may be cracked. Specifically a water flow meter at the factory failed while some engine blocks were being cast. As a result, these blocks did not cool properly, which caused cracks to develop.

This’s not a design issue, and the manufacturing issue has been fixed. Not a concern to me at all.

Toyota and Lexus Recall Cars to Replace Engines
 
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North of Toronto
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2019 CX-9 Sig
#1 was researching the CR-V at the behest of my brother who owned his own car repair shop. I was moving from a truck into an SUV, and was sold on Honda due to their prevalanve on the road.
Do you mean you were sold on it and then researched and didn't get?

Was your bro really worried about the OD issue? I guess he knows the potential ramifications?

I did buy one, before knowing. My dealer also claimed it was news to them. Then they said they'd heard some things but had no answer. Then the recall which i had to demand as I didn't want to wait for notification in mail. They did it. I believe it was all in programming, but I'm not well versed in under the hood thingys.

I don't know truly how many people have had issues (as a %) but it does concern me. But I'm not a long term owner type, nor high mileage, so I'm hoping to get another 2 yrs or so out of my 2017 and be done with it. I would buy Honda again though. No car company has an unblemished record.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
We have no way to prove that at this time. It took about 12 months to have the issue of cylinder deactivation exposed since Mazda started selling 2018 CX-5 2.5L with CD.
Of course no one here has any way of knowing for certain.

But we know we have members who own these cars...some of whom had the issue manifest itself, and all of whom have had the software upgrade. None of them have reported any post-upgrade issues as of this date (Sure, I'll say "yet.").

Regarding software issues solving hardware problems, there are lots of analogies
and hypothetical examples we could contrive. I guess it depends. We'll have to wait and see on this one.

None of us are a position to state that Mazda can guarantee that no set of circumstances can possibly cause the rocker arm to overcome the new higher oil pressure...and neither can Mazda. All we got is the data at hand.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
Do you mean you were sold on it and then researched and didn't get?

Was your bro really worried about the OD issue? I guess he knows the potential ramifications?
No, what happened was I was in the market for a used low-mileage SUV, either Toyota or Honda solely because of their popularity & prevalence. High prices on anything low-mileage drove me to the new car market.

I then started talking to my brother, who told me to do my research before buying anything new. That was what caused me to start reading on them and trolling Honda forums. I read stories of people doing oil changes every 1,000 miles at their personal expense. I read that Honda blamed the issue on Cold Temps+Short Trips, while owners driving in Florida summers posted their tales of OD woe.

The denial I read coming from Honda and the dealers (on top of the seriousness and lifetime inconvenience of the problem) soured me on the brand. My brother never said anything about OD. He would only have known of it second-hand though industry rumors, since independent shops rarely see any volume of new-technology cars (they're still under warranty.) He and I only talked about OD in the larger sense of Direct Inject technology and how it's near-impossible to avoid.
 
The 1.6 turbo Kona I traded in had OD issue. I think it is a combination of turbo and DI. My CX-5 doesn't have such issue. Dont know if the Mazda turbo also have such issue?
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
The 1.6 turbo Kona I traded in had OD issue. I think it is a combination of turbo and DI. My CX-5 doesn't have such issue. Dont know if the Mazda turbo also have such issue?
There is a Mazda TSB that speaks to the possibility of oil dilution in all Skyactiv-G engines. The TSB claims that if oil dilution happens, the car throws a CEL Code for a "too rich fuel mixture." The stated causal issue is "too many short trips without engine warming up." It has diagrams that explain how this happens in Direct Inject engines. I've not read of Mazdas exhibiting this problem to any great degree, including the turbos in CX-9s. There are one or two isolated cases of it posted in the CX-9 forum, if I recall correctly.

See attached (from December 2017.)
 

Attachments

From the cx30 forum...

There is an interesting story behind this recall. There are two PCM (powertrain control module) suppliers contracted by Mazda for their engines, and for whatever reason one of them did not apply the last finalized production software update for vehicles with cylinder deactivation (CD). The software controls the variable valve actuation when the engine is switching from CD 2 cylinder mode back to normal 4 cylinder operation. As a result, any of the CD vehicles that had this model of PCM installed were susceptible to stalling and potential engine damage. However, because not all CD vehicles were affected it took Mazda a while to determine the cause as they did not initially realize that one supplier was shipping PCMs with an outdated software version. The fix in the end is simply a PCM software upgrade performed by the dealer. In rare cases if a valve made contact with another part of the engine (ie: piston) when the system malfunctioned a whole new engine could be required due to physical damage of the valve rocker arm components.”
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
From the cx30 forum...

There is an interesting story behind this recall. There are two PCM (powertrain control module) suppliers contracted by Mazda for their engines, and for whatever reason one of them did not apply the last finalized production software update for vehicles with cylinder deactivation (CD). The software controls the variable valve actuation when the engine is switching from CD 2 cylinder mode back to normal 4 cylinder operation. As a result, any of the CD vehicles that had this model of PCM installed were susceptible to stalling and potential engine damage. However, because not all CD vehicles were affected it took Mazda a while to determine the cause as they did not initially realize that one supplier was shipping PCMs with an outdated software version. The fix in the end is simply a PCM software upgrade performed by the dealer. In rare cases if a valve made contact with another part of the engine (ie: piston) when the system malfunctioned a whole new engine could be required due to physical damage of the valve rocker arm components.”
I just asked the guy what the source of that story is. None was cited.
 
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2018 CX-9 Sig
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2014 CX-5 GT
[QUOTE="Avoidin Deer, post: 6679505, member: 15975t
I just asked the guy what the source of that story is. None was cited.
[/QUOTE]

This could be my location but I was talking to my dealer - bought three Mazda's from them and they know me well- about the CD issue and honestly, they claimed ignorance. They claim to have had zero problems and know nothing about it. Same dealer told me the diesel is a ticking time bomb and not to buy one (even after I gave them money!) and they want to stop carrying the Mazda 3 and 6 as they can't give them away anymore.
 
Lets also keep in mind the 2.5L NA with CD is also found in Mazda 3's, Mazda 6's, CX-30's.
There are likely hundreds of thousands of these motors out there running around. These cars are used as commuters and family haulers so TONS of miles racking up on these engines as well. (These are not Miatas put away for months at a time without use)

If the 2.5L w/CD was likely to fail it be happening frequently and reported constantly on forums.

I've been on car forums for 17+ years, believe me, if an engine is failure prone it would be getting reported every week someone new would be telling us of their horror story. Every forum reports an engine failure occasionally, it happens. But a ticking time bomb engine will be frequent and constant in reports.

I'm just not seeing it with the Mazda 2.5L

But what I am seeing is certain members constantly posting the evils of Mazda CD technology, despite the lack of new cases flowing in.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
This could be my location but I was talking to my dealer - bought three Mazda's from them and they know me well- about the CD issue and honestly, they claimed ignorance. They claim to have had zero problems and know nothing about it. Same dealer told me the diesel is a ticking time bomb and not to buy one (even after I gave them money!) and they want to stop carrying the Mazda 3 and 6 as they can't give them away anymore.
That story was posted by Bacchus. I wasn't calling him out, but I'd like to know how valid that source is.

Those are interesting comments from your dealer. So I went and grabbed some data.

Keep in mind that this is the trend for all US vehicle sales:
>SUVs and Trucks increase
>Passenger Cars decline

CX5 Mazda3 Mazda6 monthly sales.jpg


CX5 Mazda3 Mazda6 annual sales.jpg




I sure would like to find CX-5 NA vs CX-5 turbo sales.
 

Attachments

:
2018 AWD GT Premium Red/Black
From the cx30 forum...

There is an interesting story behind this recall. There are two PCM (powertrain control module) suppliers contracted by Mazda for their engines, and for whatever reason one of them did not apply the last finalized production software update for vehicles with cylinder deactivation (CD). The software controls the variable valve actuation when the engine is switching from CD 2 cylinder mode back to normal 4 cylinder operation. As a result, any of the CD vehicles that had this model of PCM installed were susceptible to stalling and potential engine damage. However, because not all CD vehicles were affected it took Mazda a while to determine the cause as they did not initially realize that one supplier was shipping PCMs with an outdated software version. The fix in the end is simply a PCM software upgrade performed by the dealer. In rare cases if a valve made contact with another part of the engine (ie: piston) when the system malfunctioned a whole new engine could be required due to physical damage of the valve rocker arm components.”
That's a very plausible explanation. Doesn't mean its true, but I'd buy it.
 

Kaps

Contributor
:
CX-5 Touring 2016.5
My 2nd car is a 2015 Camry SE. Here are the issues I have had with it
1. Exhaust heat shield - metal on metal corrosion in 2017 $150 repair
2. Infotainment touch screen not responsive - Had to pay some as car was outside bumper to bumper. Toyota knows this and no recall yet, they covered some. Should have taken the money and installed aftermarket one.
3. Blower motor is making noise (4 years 85K miles) - I checked the AC fan was good, so the motor is going bad. I will replace it on my own dime soon.

Compared to my 16 CX5 with 36K miles - $0 in repair.
 
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13' CX-5 and 16' Mazda6 both Touring w/Tech/Bose
The 1.6 turbo Kona I traded in had OD issue. I think it is a combination of turbo and DI. My CX-5 doesn't have such issue. Dont know if the Mazda turbo also have such issue?
Its a higher risk for "Small displacement" direct injection turbo engines. They take longer to reach optimal warm up. In Mazda's case they have a larger 2.5l engine + programmed to idle high upon startup = engine heated up as to greatly minimize amount of OD.
 

Who has a CX-5 and a Miata?

  • Yes, an ND MX-5 Miata

    Votes: 8 11.8%
  • Yes, an Older Gen MX-5 Miata

    Votes: 20 29.4%
  • Yes, more than one actually...

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • No but I'm in the market for one...

    Votes: 4 5.9%
  • No

    Votes: 34 50.0%
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