Issue with bogging, no check engine light

[NScrilla]

Hey fellow Mazda owners,

So i have a 2000 Mazda protege 1.6L standard. It has 167000 KM on it. I had an issue with the car that threw a too much fuel code. I fixed it by replacing the rubber boot thing that was behind the MAF sensor. I guess it had cracks in it that allowed air into the car behind the sensor. See here:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123848425-Check-engine-light-is-on&highlight=

I haven't drove this car since the summer started coz i was driving my V8 Rx-7. However now that it is winter it is time for the protege again.

Now that i got the issue fixed i am still having issues. No check engine light anymore but the car doesn't run properly. Basically it doesn't rev properly off idle. It kind of bogs. If i am in traffic and am gonna turn left after a car goes, i will rev the engine up to 2500 area and then let out the clutch since it will be very slow to accelerate otherwise. Plus if your accelerating, it will hesitate at 2250 RPM's area. Also it maybe does it at higher RPM's but i don't know for sure. It doesn't really have the power it should at the low RPM's. Ive been driving it before and been going up a slight hill, shift into second and with full throttle it just stays at 2000 RPM's. Sometimes like this it will just bog and not want to accelerate even though it should. Once your past the 3000 RPM area it makes much more power, what you would expect from a 1.6.

It also wants to lurch sometimes in first gear if your just idling. Basically there is something wrong with the way it runs. It used to get 14 KM/L and now i am getting 12 KM/L. The engine doesn't through any codes anymore so i don't really know where to look.

Could this issue be related to the issue i had before? Did too much air from the damaged rubber boot cause the engine to carbon up with too much fuel over time time? Seems unlikely to me. Does anyone got any ideas? I am thinking it is a sensor issue.

Thanks.

Yours truly,



N-Scrilla

 

[cartracer12]

Possibly a MAF sensor with a "flow gap" when the engine comes of idle or is bringing in slightly more air than idle it reads too low until larger amounts of air are drawn in. PCM isn't clever enough to tell the difference unless it occurs for an extended period of time and the fuel trims are way out.

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[cartracer12]

You could try unplugging and removing the MAF sensor and misting a bunch of brake kleen over the sensor. (Not a stream as that could damage the sensor)

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[NScrilla]

I can go and buy "brake kleen" at the store. No issue. I am by no means a real mechanic, backyard mechanic for sure though. I did the whole V8 Rx-7 by myself.

I don't want to spray some stuff on a sensor and mess it up though. However, I know what the MAF is and where is at. If i mess the senor up i will either have to get a new one or hit a wrecker up. Wreckers are in short supply where i live though. Is there a way i can test it? Using a multi-meter or a probe or something?

Thanks.

 

[00protegees]

There is specific maf/electrical parts cleaner. Do not use brake clean

 

[NScrilla]

Alright well i got the MAF cleaner from the store. I sprayed it on and reinstalled it. One strange thing i noticed was one of the screw's holding on the MAF were stripped so i had to drill it out. Anyways i think it made it worse.... Does that mean i need a new MAF? What else could the issue be?

 

[concept]

I highly recommend getting a factory service manual before you spend any more money. You can find free downloads on the internet.

 

[MPLX]

I've been having these issues myself, and trust me I have been trying to narrow the problem down ad nauseum. I recently did the VTCS delete, replaced the intake manny gaskets, TB gaskets, cleaned the EGR, IAC and TB. Replaced all of the vacuum hoses, new AEM intake, two MAF sensors, PRC solenoid, VTCS and VICS solenoids, cam sensor and the ECU. Also replaced the spark plugs and coils. Oh and a new catback exhaust.

I'm running better, but I'm still having random high idle issues, but what you are describing is how my car was running after the intake manifold work I finished. I'm surprised you're not throwing any CEL codes. The codes I have seen are all over. P1569, P1250, P0325, P0505, P0507, P0421 and P0090.

My P0421 code I attribute to the header wrap I just installed as I've been running the fouler plugs with no codes. My P1569 code is frustrating and must be a wire issue as I've replaced that sensor with 4 different solenoids. (This is want prompted me to do the VTCS delete in the first place).

So my next tests will be the fuel pump hence the P0090 code. I'm probably just going to replace it since my car has over 250,000 miles. The other tests I'm going to perform is a smoke test for leaks and a compression test.

I'm not saying do all of this. I have spent little on all of this because I am frequently at the salvage yard and parts are cheap. Maybe in all I've spent $100 and that's including an ECU and intake manifold.

What I would do if you're not throwing codes first is make sure all of your connectors are connected and vacuum lines are hooked up properly. Then do a smoke test to search for vacuum leaks. This car is so finicky, I can't believe you're not throwing codes though. Have you plugged in an OBDII tester?

 

[NScrilla]

I downloaded the manual and ON THE VERY FIRST PAGE IT SAYS "An authorized Mazda dealer knows your vehicle best. So when maintenance or service is necessary, thatfs the place to go" Wtf did they not proof read their manual??? Sorry i had to post this. Anyways i'm going to read this and hopefully come up with a solution. I will also check all vacuum lines and sensor connectors. Its a pretty basic engine without a lot of stuff on top so it shouldn't take much time.

 

[NScrilla]

I've spent 25 mins looking and haven't found any free service manuals. Just the owners manual and it dosnt have a troubleshooting section. All the service manuals want me to put my credit card in and pay scrills and im not down for that. I can maybe find it later if i look more. Does anyone know of a download link?

Thankkss

 

[NScrilla]

K so i checked the spark plugs and they were hurting hard. I replaced them and now the old ones look so bad compared to the new ones. I could post a pic but i don't think it matters. Regardless, i drove it again and the same issue apply. I thought about the spark plug wires also but haven't dealt with them yet since id have to order coils and wires (stupid design IMO). I noticed two unconnected connectors when i looked. Pics are attached. Other than that everything looks attached.

As you can see, there is a two wire connector that is around the steering pump and is white, the other connector is near the rad and is a four prong connector, the third pic is of the engine in general.

 

[NScrilla]

Interestingly enough there is one bolt that holds on the coil that is snapped. I dunno who worked on this car but im not gonna drill it out as it is unnecessary. I fixed the one on the MAF which was messed, i think cause someone tried to pull it off. Anyways.

 

[concept]

I downloaded the manual and ON THE VERY FIRST PAGE IT SAYS "An authorized Mazda dealer knows your vehicle best. So when maintenance or service is necessary, thatfs the place to go" Wtf did they not proof read their manual??? Sorry i had to post this. Anyways i'm going to read this and hopefully come up with a solution. I will also check all vacuum lines and sensor connectors. Its a pretty basic engine without a lot of stuff on top so it shouldn't take much time.

Is this what you found?

https://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/9062409-mazda-protege-1999-2003-service-repair-manual-2000

It's not free but a lot less that the typical $100 Factory manual. I have one (maybe not this exact one) that I downloaded a few years ago and it's been very helpful.

 

[NScrilla]

K well i bought the manual. It is 1400 pages or something. I went to the diagnostic section and it has a list of steps for the issues i am having. Step 3 or 4 askes me to connect a reader and check some PID's. I also got a code reader the Innova 3020 and it shows no codes. However not all the I/M lights are solid. Three stay flashing, they are O, C & EV. Im guessing these systems aren't ready to test yet? I did some research and the EV and O systems are supposed to be turned on by doing this driving procedure i looked up but it didn't seem to make the lights turn on. Also there are three lights, a green a yellow and a red. The reader only will show the yellow which indicates not a complete test and that there could be problems. Im also not sure if this reader does the PID's or not.

Could my O2 sensor be damaged from the too lean code? Perhaps there was too much fuel added by the ECU and it messed with the O2 sensor? I wasnt able to get the O2 sensor I/M to stay solid.

Do i need to deal with the I/M's not being solid before i can ensure there is no codes being thrown?

Thanks

 

[NScrilla]

The O I/M relates to the oxygen sensor and the EV is the EVAP system. The C is the Cataylist, which i expect is the catalytic converter.

 

[NScrilla]

Well i took a look at the quick diagnostic chart in the workshop manual and it says the issues i am having:

Buck/Jerk
Misses
Surges
Hesitation/Stumble

Is caused by three possible things, all listed are:

Improper engine compression
Improper Valve timing
Poor fuel quality

Could poor fuel quality be an issue due to bad stuff in the tank? That would make sense if it does not throw any P codes. I read that the car dosnt have a fuel filter though....

Im pretty confused at this point

Thanks


Thanks

 

[NScrilla]

Well i read about a fuel filter issue so i popped the fuel hatch door from under the seats and looked inside and the mesh filter looks fine, so does theinside of the tank and all that. One strange thing i noticed was a gray connector that went to the back of the car that said "89" on it in a black sharpie. Dunno why that was there since this car is a 2000.

Next i compression tested it by removing all the spark plugs and connecting the compression tester i have to each of them. I got between 200 and 220 on all four. Which is close to each other but isn't that a little high? Could my engine have carboned up due to the crack in the MAF boot? I read somewhere it should be 170 or so... I read that regular (87 octane) should be only used in engines with approx 165 psi.


Thanks

 

[cartracer12]

I think those two connectors you are seeing in the engine bay are for the A/C fan and the A/C compressor clutch. By the looks of it your car doesn't have A/C but the factory harness is one harness no matter what options you've got. I'm having a similar issue now with bogging at tip in throttle especially when the car is cold. No code same as yours, I checked my MAF sensor voltage on a scan too and rather than being a standard .5 volt to 4.5 vilt range it starts at 2.5v and goes up from there. Meaning the car is measuring way too much air and compensating.

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[cartracer12]

Do you have anyone with a similar car you could swap MAF sensors with to try.

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[NScrilla]

The workshop manual also tells me i can test the voltage with a test light on the PCM terminals by tapping it into the wire. Im gonna do that tomorrow morning and go from there. It could very well be a MAF issue since one of the stripped screws was holding the MAF in place.

Thanks