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GT-R (turbo) vs. Hybrid CR-V ??

What do we know about the forthcoming Honda CR-V hybrid? I'm especially concerned it may lack gnd. clearance which is already marginal...

I had expected to get a GT-R last year but never get a decent price quote and am not getting one this year either (only one Mazda dealer within 80 miles of me).
 
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2019 CX-5 Signature
Do you think you'll get a better deal on the new CR-V hybrid? What have been the quotes you're getting on the GTR?
 
$33,900 was the best on a GT-R (met. gray paint)

I'm sure there won't be big discounts on the hybrid CR-V (except to the extent they need to compete with the Toyota) but it may pay to wait and see what it's like.

OTOH, my Subaru's tires are getting worn...
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
I hate to sound like a sales guy, and I don't want to insult you, and you've probably looked at this already...

One of Mazda's shortcomings is that they do not jack their "reference retail" prices way up so that they can have "Employee Pricing" events and other such contrived sales in balloon-filled showrooms. It's a horrible approach for most Americans, and one we've discussed here many. many times. They just don't do anything to get people into their showrooms, and while crude, this is effective and customary.

We think something that "normally retails" for $40,000 is somehow a better value at $34,000 than something that "normally retails" for $36,000, just because the seller says it's really worth $40,000 (even though he may never ever sell any at that price.) In many instances, we have no other measurement of relative value than the original price.

I know that I don't feel I got "a great deal" on my Reserve. (Part of that was because I factory-ordered so self-restricted my negotiating room.) But every day behind the wheel convinces me that there's not much else out there I would enjoy driving as much, that is of comparable quality at the price I paid (gee, I said I wasn't gonna be a sales guy :giggle:)

So to look at it objectively:
>What else may be on your radar screen for that same "net negotiated price"?
>What best price can you find on a comparable vehicle you'd like to own?
>Do you think being behind the wheel of the GT-R has set high expectations when evaluating other vehicles?

Regarding the 2020 CR-V Hybrid, Edmunds has a short article on it, with an estimated price of under $30,000 (that's a pretty big savings over the GT-R.) It's scant on details, and they sing the praises of the RAV4 hybrid.
 
:
2013 Mazda CX-5 Sport FWD Auto
Just try filling that RAV4 hybrid gas tank before you investigate/compare along side the CRV. Or check out the RAV4 Prime before committing to the CRV Hybrid. Not trolling, but I hope the RAV4 prime has a different gas tank than the 2019 and 2020 hybrids due to the widely publicized fill issue. I own a gas ‘19 RAV4 and it’s a great family vehicle, but the gas issue gives me pause before recommending the hybrid.

Everybody is speculating that it’s the shape of the tank, but I’m worried it’s a venting issue. My buddy has a Focus ST and apparently the tank can crush itself permanently due to a faulty vent. It’s supposed to open and let air in the tank as the gas in the tank drains. If it fails, the tank crushes like a juice box as the gas is sucked out.

Anyway, lemme get off my tangent. The CRV hybrid won’t handle as nicely as the CX5 and most likely won’t match its performance numbers. The CX5 is built for performance. Do you want to spend money to get a sporty CUV that hauls ass, handles like it’s on rails, and gets the lower gas mileage that goes with it? Or do you want to buy a car that has less horsepower, better gas mileage, and isn’t going to the the sporty performer that the CX5 is? Speculation is that the CRV hybrid will have a hair over 210 hp. It will likely have a driveshaft for true AWD (RAV4 doesn’t, went with rear electric motor).

Or do you want to wait for the RAV4 prime, likely pay more, and possibly get the best of both worlds? 300 HP but probably still won’t “drive” as well as the CX5 but we shall see!
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
:
Central Virginia
:
2019 CX-5 Reserve
It’s supposed to open and let air in the tank as the gas in the tank drains. If it fails, the tank crushes like a juice box as the gas is sucked out.
Man, that's a fuel pump worthy of a Willie Nelson song!

Regarding the CR-V Hybrid HP rating, Edmund's confirms your estimate : 212-horsepower hybrid powertrain.

These backs & forths regarding performance vs economy are parallel to observations I've made on a micro level regarding some of the features in the CX-5: "needs" and "utility" are highly environmentally-specific. I lived in the overcrowded DC suburbs since the early 60s and moved to a very rural agricultural community in 2010. The utility of many CX-5 features depends on the area in which I might be driving.

At a higher level, I can't imagine getting more enjoyment out of a car here than I have from my Reserve; conversely, there's no way I'd even consider this car just for sitting in 7x24x365 DC traffic, or for my 1 mile suburban trips to the grocery store. The only "handling" that applies there is navigating the parking garage ramps.

"Quality" is really nothing more that "suitability for a particular purpose", not necessarily some universal definition of "the absolute best." Even among those of us for whom a vehicle represents much more than mere transportation, I think "purposes" vary widely.
 
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2013 Mazda CX-5 Sport FWD Auto
"Quality" is really nothing more that "suitability for a particular purpose", not necessarily some universal definition of "the absolute best." Even among those of us for whom a vehicle represents much more than mere transportation, I think "purposes" vary widely.
Good thoughts. There's like 5 or 6 ways you can define quality, and it really comes down to what your daily use is going to be like you described. You nailed the perspective of function. Absolute best is the transcendence perspective. I was focused on functions I needed when I made my last purchase.
 

Kaps

Contributor
:
CX-5 Touring 2016.5
CRV will have same hybrid drivetrain as Honda Accord - 212 hp and 232 lb ft of torque. Hybrid Accord does 0-60 in 6.5 or so seconds, expect CRV to hit 7 or slightly under due to aero dynamics and weight.
On mpg front I would think 40 or so is possible.

I am impressed with the Honda Hybrids but the transaction prices new and used just make it not worth it for the value for money I am looking at. Plus crude is falling.
 
I am more concerned with range on a tank of gas than with economy per se. Gas stations are few and far between in the outback of the Intermountain West.

The RAV4 hybrid felt very heavy to me. OTOH, the CX5 did not feel stellar and Honda has a great reputation for handling, which might carry over to a heavier CR-V.
 
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Pueblo county CO
:
CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
Did you check the curb weight? It might be the batteries.

A all electric rear wheel drive might save weight over a transfer case and rear diff and driveshaft.
 
:
2014 CX-5 GT w/ Tech

The 2020 Honda CR-V Hybrid begins arriving at dealerships on March 1 as the most powerful and fuel-efficient CR-V yet, with a 40 mpg EPA city fuel economy rating, better off-the-line acceleration and the refinement of Honda’s latest generation of two-motor hybrid technology with improved all-electric operating range. The new CR-V Hybrid comes standard with Real Time AWD with Intelligent Control System™, and a Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price starting at $27,750 (excluding destination and handling charges).


The Real Time All-Wheel Drive with Intelligent Control System gives buyers additional inclement-weather driving confidence. Like its gasoline-only counterpart,


CR-V Hybrid also comes standard with the Honda Sensing® suite of safety and driver assistive technologies, automatic climate control, and automatic high beams. The CR-V Hybrid also comes with additional standard features that include LED headlights, Smart Entry and Pushbutton Start, and a cargo cover.


The 2020 CR-V Hybrid is distinguished from the rest of the CR-V lineup by unique front and rear styling cues that include Hybrid badging on the grille, front fenders, and tailgate; hybrid-exclusive 5-lamp LED fog lights; and a unique rear bumper design. Like the rest of the 2020 CR-V lineup, the 2020 CR-V Hybrid benefits from new headlight designs, new alloy wheel designs for EX and EX-L trims, and new 19-inch wheels on Touring trims.


Inside, the CR-V Hybrid offers the same spacious and tech-savvy cabin as the non-hybrid, including its full-flat folding and 60/40-split second-row seat. Unique to CR-V Hybrid versus its non-hybrid counterpart are three buttons to the right of the push-button gear selector that let the driver select between Sport, EV and ECON modes to help maximize power or fuel efficiency. CR-V Hybrid’s digital gauge cluster also offers functions distinct from the non-hybrid, such as a power-flow meter.


2020 CR-V Hybrid Pricing & EPA Data


Model / Trim
MSRP1
MSRP1 Including $1,120 Destination Charge
EPA Mileage Rating
(City/Hwy/Combined)2
CR-V Hybrid LX​
$27,750​
$28,870​
40 / 35 / 38​
CR-V Hybrid EX​
$30,260​
$31,380​
40 / 35 / 38​
CR-V Hybrid EX-L​
$32,750​
$33,870​
40 / 35 / 38​
CR-V Hybrid Touring​
$35,950​
$37,070​
40 / 35 / 38​
 
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2014 CX-5 GT w/ Tech
I personally own a 2018 Accord Hybrid with 20k miles on it so I can give a bit of an opinion on the hybrid system.

First off it operates much more like an EV due to the way the system is designed. There is no transmission in the traditional sense so in most situations the vehicle is powered by the electric motor. Just like any other electric motor they are single speed and if you want to go faster you just spin the motor faster. Most of the time when the gas engine is running it is just to produce electricity to power the electric motor/charge the battery and it is not connected to the wheels at all. That means instant torque off the line. It is very snappy around town. In certain circumstances there is a fixed ratio lockup clutch that can engage so the gas engine can directly power the wheels, but because it's a fixed ratio it cannot shift to a lower gear to reduce RPMs. Still, it is not loud at all. But because of the fixed gear fuel economy at higher speeds can suffer. This is the biggest difference between the Honda system and the Toyota/Ford systems.

I'm seeing extraordinary mileage, multiple tanks over 50MPG and range of 600 per tank, but it is extremely contingent on how you drive. At speeds of 60MPH I can routinely get well over 50MPG. At 65MPH I get about 47-48MPG. At 70MPH I get around 45MPG. 75MPH is around 43MPG, and it continues to fall off from there. So if you drive at higher speeds the Honda system won't be as efficient as a Toyota or Ford system.

The brakes are excellent. You can't even tell there is any regeneration to them. In fact, with the paddle shifters that control the regen function I routinely don't even have to use the brakes via my foot until the last 20 feet or so when stopping. The biggest annoyance is I prefer max regen but it resets every time you resume driving from a stop. It only saves the regen mode when in sport mode and I wish it did it in every mode.

Over 20k miles it's been dead reliable. One oil change around 14k miles. I expect the brakes to last nearly forever too.

Regarding the CR-V, regardless of gas prices, I would still buy the hybrid over the gas model, especially since it comes standard with AWD, plus things like LED headlights on every trim, which are only available on the Touring trim for the gas models, for a very small price increase that has a short payback period.

I think compared to the regular hybrid Rav4 the CR-V is a clear winner. Mileage is slightly lower than the Rav4, but the price fully loaded Rav4 Limited Hybrid can be a tad over $40k, so the CR-V undercuts it by a lot. It is missing some of the Rav4's features like 360 camera, pano sunroof, cooled seats, but has everything else. The Escape is a good deal and compares favorably to the CR-V.

However my real interest is in the Rav4 Prime and the Escape Plug-in. Both should be very interesting and will have 30+ miles of electric only range. Prices are unknown but both will qualify for federal incentives that help offset the high price.
 

sm1ke

Work In Progress..
Moderator
Contributor
:
Canada
:
'18 CX-9 Signature
I personally own a 2018 Accord Hybrid with 20k miles on it so I can give a bit of an opinion on the hybrid system.

First off it operates much more like an EV due to the way the system is designed. There is no transmission in the traditional sense so in most situations the vehicle is powered by the electric motor. Just like any other electric motor they are single speed and if you want to go faster you just spin the motor faster. Most of the time when the gas engine is running it is just to produce electricity to power the electric motor/charge the battery and it is not connected to the wheels at all. That means instant torque off the line. It is very snappy around town. In certain circumstances there is a fixed ratio lockup clutch that can engage so the gas engine can directly power the wheels, but because it's a fixed ratio it cannot shift to a lower gear to reduce RPMs. Still, it is not loud at all. But because of the fixed gear fuel economy at higher speeds can suffer. This is the biggest difference between the Honda system and the Toyota/Ford systems.

I'm seeing extraordinary mileage, multiple tanks over 50MPG and range of 600 per tank, but it is extremely contingent on how you drive. At speeds of 60MPH I can routinely get well over 50MPG. At 65MPH I get about 47-48MPG. At 70MPH I get around 45MPG. 75MPH is around 43MPG, and it continues to fall off from there. So if you drive at higher speeds the Honda system won't be as efficient as a Toyota or Ford system.

The brakes are excellent. You can't even tell there is any regeneration to them. In fact, with the paddle shifters that control the regen function I routinely don't even have to use the brakes via my foot until the last 20 feet or so when stopping. The biggest annoyance is I prefer max regen but it resets every time you resume driving from a stop. It only saves the regen mode when in sport mode and I wish it did it in every mode.

Over 20k miles it's been dead reliable. One oil change around 14k miles. I expect the brakes to last nearly forever too.

Regarding the CR-V, regardless of gas prices, I would still buy the hybrid over the gas model, especially since it comes standard with AWD, plus things like LED headlights on every trim, which are only available on the Touring trim for the gas models, for a very small price increase that has a short payback period.

I think compared to the regular hybrid Rav4 the CR-V is a clear winner. Mileage is slightly lower than the Rav4, but the price fully loaded Rav4 Limited Hybrid can be a tad over $40k, so the CR-V undercuts it by a lot. It is missing some of the Rav4's features like 360 camera, pano sunroof, cooled seats, but has everything else. The Escape is a good deal and compares favorably to the CR-V.

However my real interest is in the Rav4 Prime and the Escape Plug-in. Both should be very interesting and will have 30+ miles of electric only range. Prices are unknown but both will qualify for federal incentives that help offset the high price.
Very informative post - thanks for your insights. Based on your experience, I would be a lot more likely to consider a hybrid CR-V (before, I likely would not have even bothered test driving it). The looks and (probably) the handling still put me off a bit.
 
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2014 CX-5 GT w/ Tech
The other thing I forgot to mention are things like the safety systems/infotainment of the Honda vs Mazda. First, the lane keeping system on the Honda is lightyears beyond the CX-5. It actually keeps you dead center in the lane and it's so good, as long as you aren't on a sharp curve, you can actually take your hands off the wheel and the car steers itself for a short period before making you put pressure back on the wheel. The system is so good people have hacked it to make the car have abilities like Tesla Autopilot: https://comma.ai/. The blind spot doesn't go off when the car in the next lane is 300 feet behind you which is nice. Also the infotainment system is really well done in the Accord. The CR-V has an older version so it's not at nice looking, but retains a lot of the same cool features. For instance all radio presets buffer so when you switch from one station to another it actually goes back however many minutes/seconds and starts whatever current song is playing from the beginning which I think is really cool. Plus the buffering means you can rewind/pause the radio. If you get a phone call, when you hang up the radio resumes where it was when you picked up. Great for things like talk radio/sports. My first gen CX-5 had the rewinding radio but they took it out on the second gens.

It might lack some of the dynamics of the CX-5, but the CX-5 isn't a Miata itself, and the CR-V has significantly more cargo space and the hybrid should be at least as quick if not a tad bit quicker than the turbo CX-5 due to the electric torque. Not bashing the CX-5 if that's how it comes across. Since I have both in my garage it makes it easy to compare, and I have been a bit disappointed in the second gen CX-5 compared to my first gen.
 
What is the battery-only mileage on the Accord?

I spoke with a Honda rep at the local auto show and they claimed the CR-V would not exceed 20 miles of battery-only driving before the gas engine starts generating power, which I thought was pretty low considering the amount of space available for batteries.
 
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2014 CX-5 GT w/ Tech
What is the battery-only mileage on the Accord?

I spoke with a Honda rep at the local auto show and they claimed the CR-V would not exceed 20 miles of battery-only driving before the gas engine starts generating power, which I thought was pretty low considering the amount of space available for batteries.
Are you referring to speed or actual driving mileage? If you're easy on the accelerator you can accelerate up to full speed in EV only mode assuming you have enough battery. I've managed to keep it in EV mode for 1.5 miles before when I had an almost full charge in the battery from coming down a small hill. In both the accord and CR-V that's about max range for the EV only mode.

The battery is only a tad over 1kw (I think 1.3kw). It's not a plug in hybrid so full EV driving for extended ranges of 20 miles is impossible. Even going downhill you can't get range like that because when the battery gets fully charged the engine has to kick on to burn off the excess regen energy since the battery can't take any more charge when it's at full capacity. I have no idea why the rep would even indicate that it would be anywhere near 20 miles of range, they should know better.
 
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North of Toronto
:
2019 CX-9 Sig
First, the lane keeping system on the Honda is lightyears beyond the CX-5.

The blind spot doesn't go off when the car in the next lane is 300 feet behind you which is nice.
Yes to both of these. I have non hybrid Touring (don't even think we have hybrid CRV in canada yet).

PLUS: Cargo cargo and cargo. If you need to haul, it is big in back. Forget cubic ft, although it has a great number there. It's usability. I take it to Ikea over my cx9. I find I can get a greater variety of shaped items in CRV with seats down as cx9 can with BOTH rows down. All in the shape. If you are ok hauling things piled up (as in over where the cargo cover can be used) it is very impressive.

But no, it won't handle like cx5. It's not something that I notice when driving around, it's adequate. But steering feel is not there, road a bit disconnected from driver, IMO. I find it will hold a corner, BUT try to change the line you're on while mid corner and there's a vagueness to it. Same on quick lane changes. For some this might not matter, others it will be deal breaker.
 
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Pueblo county CO
:
CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
I think it's around 70 cuft w rear seats down-unless the battery encroaches.

I wonder how big the hatch opening is? It looks wider at the bottom than at the top where the window is.
 

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