Future of the "hot-hatch" / MS3 ???

[DailyDriver]

I've had my 2010 MS3 for about 7 months now and absolutely love it. It's super fun to drive on a daily basis, and I can carry my family around (2-year old w/baby-seat etc), with big stroller etc, plus carry about 85% of anything I ever need from Home Depot (have factory roof rack), all kinds of construction supplies, carry large boxes, whatever, the car does it ALL.

What concerns me... in the past 7 months that I've owned this car, I think I've only seen ONE single other 2010 MS3 on the road! And I might see like one or two older MS3s per month. I'm out on the road a lot and am generally very observant. I see a lot of regular Mazda 3s on a daily basis, but very rarely see any MS3s.

So... what's up? How are the MS3s doing in terms of sales? I would have thought this would be an extremely popular car considering all the versatility and power for the buck. I would have thought that the roads would be flooded with them.

Now thinking about it, I do not see many (or hardly any) WRXs on the road either. See the grandma versions, but not the hot ones.

Is the "hot-hatch" in danger?

Hey Mazda and Subaru, hope you're listening, the ONLY reason I bought a Mazda to begin with is because Mazda offers one of the few fast hot-hatches out there. No hatch, no deal. In the REAL WORLD, people need 4 doors plus a hatch, seating for at least 4 people (or two people and a baby-seat or two), plus room to carry the stroller etc. Please keep offering hot-hatches because minivans and big sluggish SUVs are NOT fun to drive... and I can't carry my family and stroller in a Corvette.

Let's face it, if you have a family and/or need to carry "real world" items (like stuff from Home Depot, etc), you NEED a hatch / wagon type vehicle with 5-doors. Mustangs, Challengers, Camaros, Cobalts etc just don't cut it. The concept of the hot-hatch is just BRILLIANT and I applaud whoever came up with this and put it on the market... and I voted with my wallet. Please keep this concept alive... please do not force us family guys back into boring SUVs and minivans... please please please.

And to all the snot-nose punks out there who go around saying how hatches look ugly... wake up and grow up. A hatch is an incredibly intelligent and useful vehicle configuration. Don't vote it down. Sure, coupes are nice too, but not very practical. Most people I know that have purchased small sport coupes wound up selling them after a year or so and getting hatches or SUVs etc once they realized how "useless" a small coupe can be. If you are single and NEVER need to carry anything or anybody, a small coupe is fine... but then you may as well just get a motorcycle so you can REALLY go fast. I've owned sport coupes so I speak from direct experience.

So... would anyone like to comment / predict the future of the MS3 and the "hot-hatch" in general? Are we safe, or do I need to start stocking up on MS3s now before they're gone forever?

The Dodge Magnum wagon is dead now, right? Not a good sign. Not that a Magnum can be compared to an MS3, but the Hemi Magnum was at least some kind of attempt to offer a PRACTICAL musclecar... and now gone.

The MS3 is an awesome little car, especially for the price, it makes me want to jump out of bed each morning, can't wait to get on the road. It makes each day way more fun than it would have been. Driving a bland, sluggish SUV everyday is absolute torture.

Oh yeah, and I do also own a Corvette (incredible vehicle), but I CANNOT DRIVE IT on a daily basis since I need to carry my 2-year old daughter and often lots of equipment every day... I'm lucky if I get to drive the Corvette twice a month at this point... welcome to the REAL WORLD.

LONG LIVE THE HOT-HATCH!!!!!!

 

[fateexceeds]

A big part of the reason you don't see many MS3's out there is the fact that they are a limited production vehicle; don't quote me on this, but I think Mazda only makes 4,000 a year. Also, only certain Mazda dealers are Mazdaspeed dealers, so that could be a factor.

 

[kickniteasy]

what part of the country are you in? Here in CO the hot hatch is alive and well....mostly subies but I've seen a couple of 2010 mazdaspeeds around.

 

[DailyDriver]

A big part of the reason you don't see many MS3's out there is the fact that they are a limited production vehicle; don't quote me on this, but I think Mazda only makes 4,000 a year. Also, only certain Mazda dealers are Mazdaspeed dealers, so that could be a factor.

Thanks. I wonder why the limited production. Regulations? Or they just don't think they will sell that many?

what part of the country are you in? Here in CO the hot hatch is alive and well....mostly subies but I've seen a couple of 2010 mazdaspeeds around.

I'm in the Northeast... Long Island, NY. There are a LOT of people and cars here, I probably see thousands of cars on the road every day.

Glad you feel that the hot-hatch is alive and well. I guess if Mazda limits production of the MS3 to 4000 a year and they sell out of them every year, there's no reason they would stop production. Wonder if they've been selling out of them each year though.

Also, just remembered... the Dodge Caliber SRT4 is dead and Chevy SSR SS is dead too...

So, we're truly down to just the MS3 and WRX, right? (I don't know if I'd consider the VW a "hot-hatch" since it's considerably down on power by comparison... and I'm not interested in the "power potential" with mods etc, I like buying a new car and leaving it stock, so, the question is, is it fast out of the box or not?)... so, right now, other than the MS3 and WRX, for under say $30k, is there any other truly fun, FAST, hatch / wagon type car available that offers a manual tranny? Yeah, it's GOTTA have a manual.

The pickin's are getting slim... but at least the MS3 and WRX are cool.... just hope they keep on making them.

 

[fateexceeds]

Thanks. I wonder why the limited production. Regulations? Or they just don't think they will sell that many?

It's intentional. All the Mazdaspeed vehicles have been that way. It's pretty much like a limited edition - intended to be something special, you know?

Also, just remembered... the Dodge Caliber SRT4 is dead and Chevy SSR SS is dead too...

So, we're truly down to just the MS3 and WRX, right? (I don't know if I'd consider the VW a "hot-hatch" since it's considerably down on power by comparison... and I'm not interested in the "power potential" with mods etc, I like buying a new car and leaving it stock, so, the question is, is it fast out of the box or not?)... so, right now, other than the MS3 and WRX, for under say $30k, is there any other truly fun, FAST, hatch / wagon type car available that offers a manual tranny? Yeah, it's GOTTA have a manual.

The pickin's are getting slim... but at least the MS3 and WRX are cool.... just hope they keep on making them.

I'd consider the GTI in the same category, especially since publications like Car & Driver continue to compare the MS3 to the GTI and road test them against each other. And it's possible the Mazda 2 could be joining the list if it gets the Mazdaspeed treatment!

 

[kickniteasy]

and don't forget about the new evo hatch

 

[coyfish]

Well the lancer raliart is in the same category. I see speed 3's all the time. But only gen 1's.

 

[DailyDriver]

Ah, the 2010 Lancer Sportback Ralliart... first I heard of this, thanks for the heads up. I just read the assorted online reviews, checked out the Youtube videos, etc... glad to see a new entry into the "hot-hatch" arena (for the U.S.), this is good news and would indicate that the "hot-hatch" in general is certainly not dead yet.

But after checking out all the reviews, I'd still take the MS3 over that Lancer, hands down. First off (sorry for my ignorance), what's up with that tranny? Is this a conventional manual tranny with clutch pedal, or...? Paddle shifter levers usually mean no manual clutch (like in the F430 I drove not to long ago). Sorry, call me "old school", but personally I still need a traditional manual tranny / manual clutch set-up.

Also, the new Lancer Sportback is more expensive than the MS3, but yet has less power and is heavier etc... ehhhh. Ok, the Lancer DOES have AWD, that's GREAT if you need it and want it, but for everyday around-town driving on asphalt, I'm more than happy with just FWD and posi as in the MS3... less mechanical "baggage" in the car, lighter ,etc.

So, in sum, I'm VERY happy that there is a new "hot-hatch" on the market, the more the better. But unfortunately it still doesn't match up to the MS3 by a long shot, at least per my own personal needs and tastes. It would be nice if a new hot-hatch hit the market that somehow surpassed the MS3, more power, etc, but then again if that happened now, I'd be frustrated that I didn't wait another year... but I'm certainly happy enough with my `10 MS3. It's "perfect" in my eyes, certainly for the money anyway.

If I could change anything about the MS3, I'd add a little more power (and be willing to pay a little more $ for it). But at the current price, it's pretty fast, can't complain. But that's why when I read the reviews about how the GTI is considerably down on power by comparison to the MS3, I know for sure that I'd never like that car at all. Any car that would have any less kick than an MS3 would certainly not work for me. And even the new Lancer Sportback, though it has AWD for good launches, it's down on power also and would also likely leave me unsatisfied.

The Mazda MS3... Mazda got it right. Good power, nice punch in an rpm range where you can use it on the street, and a generally stripped down, fairly simple, fairly light car that can carry lots of stuff... at a nice low price. Wow... perfection. If mine got stolen tonight, I'd buy another tomorrow.

Hats off Mazda! (drive2)

 

[badfish2]

IMO, the hatch is starting to finally catch on in the US (albeit most of them are the regular versions). People are realizing the practicality you speak of. I see more hatches now than ever.

The hatch market is dominated by people who don't mind buying foreign vehicles. My opinion is that the magnum is probably not as well executed (surprise!) as its' foreign counterparts. That's why IT didn't sell well.

I kinda like Dodge's styling...not enough to buy one, but I still like the vehicles. I think, like most american cars, the interior leaves a LOT to be desired. It does a lot of things that hatches don't really do... consumes gas...is big...etc... That's probably why it's a "weird" vehicle.

I love the speed, trackability, drivability, and functionality of the hot hatch...if you take away "hot" or "hatch", I'm probably not voting with my wallet.

Sedans are boring.

 

[DailyDriver]

...I kinda like Dodge's styling...not enough to buy one, but I still like the vehicles... the Magnum does a lot of things that hatches don't really do... consumes gas...is big...etc... That's probably why it's a "weird" vehicle...

Yes. Well, a Magnum was really just a Dodge Charger station wagon.... which IS "weird", but hey, if you love the idea of a Hemi Charger but NEED a station wagon, there you go.

I totally had my eye on the Magnum even way before it was available for purchase quite a few years back. But yeah, I wasn't into the "bigness" of it, very long and heavy, plus no MANUAL transmission which is a big deal for me... GOTTA have a manual. But otherwise a cool idea in general.

I've always been an American musclecar fan and have generally never really liked small foreign cars. But, the MazdaSpeed3 is like no other car, space, power and manual tranny, plus small and light enough for great handling and acceptable mpg etc... it's got it all.

I did strongly consider the Chevy HHR SS and Caliber SRT4 before buying the Mazda (even though they were being phased out at that point), but the HHR was just too "truck-like", I did test drive a regular HHR, it was like driving a small van (as opposed to a sports car), and I really wanted more of a sports car feel, so I ruled out the HHR. The Caliber... I actually felt really good sitting in one, fit me well, I liked the ergonomics, but every single review of this car screamed and cried about how horrible the torque steer was... and this was before I even experience torque steer first hand, I didn't like the idea of it... it then just made sense to me to buy a more "purpose-built" hot-hatch from the "zoom zoom" company, equal length shafts etc, I figured the chances were greater that the Mazda would be better designed for performance use.. plus I wasn't happy that they were phasing out the hot-Caliber anyway.

Well... there's a new small hot Cadillac wagon that looks REALLY cool, but not a true manual tranny... and it's probably TWICE the price of an MS3 so...

Now if Chevy comes out with a Camaro station wagon (6-speed manual with 400+ horse V8)... that might force me to dump my MS3 and trade up... but I doubt it will ever happen.

In the meantime, the MS3 is a great little puddle-jumper, has enough power to zip around traffic etc, that's all you really need for daily driving anyway in semi-crowded areas. But I wouldn't want it to have ANY less power than it already has... it's right on the line... that's why, in my personal opinion, a GTI and Lancer Sport-hatch for instance don't make the grade, if they don't have the kick that the MS3 has, then they just aren't "hot"... maybe just "warm" at best... my big SUV is "warm" too with its big V6... so then why even bother.

 

[757speed3]

I'm in the same boat as you. I frequently carry around my 3 year old in a car seat with my girlfriend and our 2 dogs as well as all the stuff we need for going to the beach and it all fits no problem. I was never a fan of foreign cars or hatches at all until I fell into the situation that led me to getting my speed3. Now I don't think I could ever go back to a sedan and even before I got the speed would never drive a coupe. This car is a blast to drive and small enough that you can park anywhere. Not to mention with the seats folded down you have about the same amount of cargo space as a small pick up. I had thought about trading for a WRX but decided against it. AWD isn't that important to me when it comes to terms of money and the fact that I think the speed3 (granted mine is a 1st gen) is the best looking car out IMO. Find me another car under $30,000 that can go on an 1600 mile roundtrip loaded down with 2 adults and a toddler and be comfortable and get 20+mpg. I plan on ridin this baby til the wheels fall off.

 

[robin2660]

I did strongly consider the Chevy HHR SS and Caliber SRT4 before buying the Mazda (even though they were being phased out at that point), but the HHR was just too "truck-like", I did test drive a regular HHR, it was like driving a small van (as opposed to a sports car), and I really wanted more of a sports car feel, so I ruled out the HHR. The Caliber... I actually felt really good sitting in one, fit me well, I liked the ergonomics, but every single review of this car screamed and cried about how horrible the torque steer was... and this was before I even experience torque steer first hand, I didn't like the idea of it... it then just made sense to me to buy a more "purpose-built" hot-hatch from the "zoom zoom" company, equal length shafts etc, I figured the chances were greater that the Mazda would be better designed for performance use.. plus I wasn't happy that they were phasing out the hot-Caliber anyway.

I think the HHR SS lapped the Nurbergring faster than the MS3.

 

[mrcardio79]

I think the HHR SS lapped the Nurbergring faster than the MS3.

Nope the HHR SS ran 8:43.52 plus you got to take into account the MS3 ran 8:39.00 running around traffic with an inexperienced ring driver as well as not being too familiar with the car. I think it could run at least 8:2X.XX under the right set of circumstances.

Yeah the MS3 is a nice bang for your buck hatch but not everyone is a family man with kids, etc. Plus some people have two vehicles; one a true sports car one the family car.

The future of sporty hatches will depend on the market but I doubt they'll stop making them. They defiantly aren't everyone's taste but there is a market for them obviously.

There's most likely at least 20k MS3's out and about in the U.S. Not exactly "limited". The original plan (Only 5k for 07-08') was a marketing ploy designed to get more potential buyers. It worked.

If you're in a situation where your budget is around 25k sporty hatches make a pretty good compromise.

 

[buttons]

I could not agree more to the original poster. I am a speed 6 owner and i get pretty dang jealous everytime i see a WRX wagon or a speed3. I think the speed 6 is the better looking car and i was sold on the AWD because i live in michigan. However my next car will be a celestia blue 2010 Speed3 ... probably in 2012

I sat in one at the dealership today while my oil was being changed and I LOVE how the 2010's look. im not sure about the front smile grill but i love the rest. i love the interior. i love the price even! its only $1000 more then the base 3. its a lot of car for the price IMHO.

dealer would sell to me for $22,680 + tax, title, etc. 4.9% interest. ill probably buy a used one in 2012 because $500 a month is pretty steep for a single income family.

 

[liquoredonlife]

Just to clear something up-

The very first production year, 2007, production was limited to 5000. They definitely ramped up production from there.

 

[eliminator]

I donno about the US, but hatchbacks are very popular up here in canada. The matrix, mazda3, vw golf, and impreza hatchbacks are extremely popular out here in BC. I'd say 25% are hatchbacks. I guess it's a lifestyle thing with all the mountain biking, golfing, skiing, here. It's noce to "stand out" with a speed3

As for the hot hatches, they're pretty expensive here. 2010 MS3 is almost $34k after freight and PDI. That alot more that the $16k-ish base model.

 

[Lord_Zath]

hatches have always been more popular in Canada.

With gas prices on the rise, Americans want the same interior capacity as their SUV with better gas mileage. That means hatch or (gasp) wagon. It's a great time to own a hatch

 

[SuperProtege5]

Not to mention if you look at both the new Fiesta and the Mazda 2, they are both hatches by design. Add in the new Focus RS, which is, you guessed it, a hatch, and it is indeed a great time to be in the market for a functional, sporty hatch. I myself have come from a Protege5 to a Mazda 3 currently, both hatches, and I love them to death. I, like the OP, have a love for fast, practical wagons or hatches. I thinking my next car will be a Speed 3 of some sort (either 1st or 2nd gen) simply because I like the options it provides. I love seeing well done WRX wagons, Legacy wagons, and 3 hatches.