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Flat tire

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Why on the rear? If it was FWD, I'd put two new ones on the front, not the rear.
Most major tire companies will install new pair of tires on rear if you only need two on a FWD vehicle. Discount Tire told me it's based on recommendation by Michelin.

But like you, I'd move the new tires to front after installation simply because the front tire wear much faster than the rear on FWD vehicle. Hopefully the tread depth will be even out at certain point, and I'd rotate all 4 tires regularly.

Luckily I rotate tires frequently and I haven't had such situation for a long time.
 

shadonoz

SkyActiv Member
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State of Jefferson
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2017 CX-5 GT AWD+
Every professional recommendation that I've seen states to put the newest/best tires on the rear; regardless of drive wheels.
Quote from Tire Rack:

When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front.
New tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning.
Thanks for posting that.

But I don't understand the rationale. The fronts steer and carry most of the weight. Wouldn't they be just as susceptible to hydroplaning as the rears? And if so, I'd rather have the rears break traction than the fronts.

What am I missing?
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Thanks for posting that.

But I don't understand the rationale. The fronts steer and carry most of the weight. Wouldn't they be just as susceptible to hydroplaning as the rears? And if so, I'd rather have the rears break traction than the fronts.

What am I missing?
I don't think you missed anything. I asked the same question to my Discount Tire, and the answer was that's Michelin's recommendation based on their experiment. IMO front tire is always more important than rear, that's why Mazda suggests we can only put tiny spare on the rear. So I moved new tires to front by myself, after Discount Tire installed the new pair of tires to the rear.
 

sm1ke

Work In Progress..
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Canada
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'18 CX-9 Signature
I don't think you missed anything. I asked the same question to my Discount Tire, and the answer was that's Michelin's recommendation based on their experiment. IMO front tire is always more important than rear, that's why Mazda suggests we can only put tiny spare on the rear. So I moved new tires to front by myself, after Discount Tire installed the new pair of tires to the rear.
If the front tires break loose before the rears, you get understeer. If the rears break before the front, you get oversteer. Understeer is easier to correct compared to oversteer, thus it is the safer option. That's why all tire repair shops and tire manufacturers will always recommend that a new pair of tires always goes on the rear.

The spare is a totally different scenario. Because the spare is smaller in diameter and in width, the safe handling characteristics of the car are severely compromised with the spare up front (vs. a more worn tire up front that simply provides less grip). Also, most drivers with common sense understand that you should be driving more carefully/slowly with a spare tire on your car, so the issues with understeer and oversteer are much, much less likely to be a concern.


Image from Wikipedia
 

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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
If the front tires break loose before the rears, you get understeer. If the rears break before the front, you get oversteer. Understeer is easier to correct compared to oversteer, thus it is the safer option. That's why all tire repair shops and tire manufacturers will always recommend that a new pair of tires always goes on the rear.

The spare is a totally different scenario. Because the spare is smaller in diameter and in width, the safe handling characteristics of the car are severely compromised with the spare up front (vs. a more worn tire up front that simply provides less grip). Also, most drivers with common sense understand that you should be driving more carefully/slowly with a spare tire on your car, so the issues with understeer and oversteer are much, much less likely to be a concern.


Image from Wikipedia
For those who have lived long enough should remember that tire manufactures and shops used to recommend a new pair of tires always goes to the front for the reason shadonoz stated earlier :)
 

sm1ke

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For those who have lived long enough should remember that tire manufactures and shops used to recommend a new pair of tires always goes to the front for the reason shadonoz stated earlier * :)
That's great, but do you disagree with the reasoning RE: understeer vs. oversteer?

Seat belts used to be optional as well. Things change. If you want to stick to the old unsafe way, that's your prerogative. The reasons for putting a new pair of tires on the rear vs. on the front makes perfect sense to me, and tire manufacturers and tire shops currently recommend the same. I'll take their word and common sense over what used to be recommended (who knows how many) years ago.

:)
 
:
2018 CX-5 Touring AWD
Every professional recommendation that I've seen states to put the newest/best tires on the rear; regardless of drive wheels.
This was also the recommendation at Americas Tire, put two in the back. Unfortunately I just got the one tire to replace the busted one.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
This was also the recommendation at Americas Tire, put two in the back. Unfortunately I just got the one tire to replace the busted one.
At only 13,029 miles, you may be better off to get one Toyo A36 tire and shave it to the same tread depth like the other three as usually stock Toyo tires should last 25K~35K miles. Discount Tire / America's Tire can do this for you. And Discount Tire / America's Tire will match the Tire Rack's price ($139.90) if their price is higher.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Really? So, Im in the middle of nowhere and my front tire goes outIm SOL???
(confused)

No, not SOL. You just take a tire off the rear, move it to the front, and put spare on the rear.
Yes, two tire changes needed to make sure the mini-spare is at rear if the flat is at front. But have you tried changing tire on the highway roadside? It's very dangerous with cars passing by, and usually the shoulder is too soft for the jack coming with the car. Changing tire twice on the highway roadside increases the risk of accident happening.

BTW, you can't put on the stock mini spare at front on 2019 CX-5 with 2.5T anyway due to bigger front disk calipers.
 

sm1ke

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Yes, two tire changes needed to make sure the mini-spare is at rear if the flat is at front. But have you tried changing tire on the highway roadside? It's very dangerous with cars passing by, and usually the shoulder is too soft for the jack coming with the car. Changing tire twice on the highway roadside increases the risk of accident happening.
Its safer to do that than to drive with the spare up front, especially on the highway.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
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Plano, Texas, USA
That's great, but do you disagree with the reasoning RE: understeer vs. oversteer?

Seat belts used to be optional as well. Things change. If you want to stick to the old unsafe way, that's your prerogative. The reasons for putting a new pair of tires on the rear vs. on the front makes perfect sense to me, and tire manufacturers and tire shops currently recommend the same. I'll take their word and common sense over what used to be recommended (who knows how many) years ago.

:)
We can't be concentrating only one area for safety, and each driver reacts differently in dangerous driving condition. Michelin reversed their previous recommendation for the reason of resisting hydroplaning, but it ignored all other driving situation and the danger of changing tires on the road side. And I'm not sure understeer is easier to correct by every driver compared to oversteer either.

All I said is to use our common sense. If the older tires have more than 5/32" tread depth left, I wouldn't hesitate to put them on the rear and put the new tires at front just to even out the tire wear quicker among all 4 tires. If you believe Michelin's claim that "older" tires are unsafe at the rear due to harder to control for hydroplaning, then we should replace our tires whenever the tire is not new, as many vehicles on the road will have partially worn rear tires!
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Its safer to do that than to drive with the spare up front, especially on the highway.
No, I'd use my common sense, put on the mini spare at front for the flat by the road side of the highway on my 2016 CX-5, and drive slowly to a safe place then move the spare to the rear. Remember you're not supposed to drive over 50 mph with a mini spare anyway according to Mazda owner's manual.

This reminds me that I should start another search to find a proper outer diameter spare for my AWD CX-5. ;)
 

sm1ke

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We can't be concentrating only one area for safety, and each driver reacts differently in dangerous driving condition. Michelin reversed their previous recommendation for the reason of resisting hydroplaning, but it ignored all other driving situation and the danger of changing tires on the road side. And I'm not sure understeer is easier to correct by every driver compared to oversteer either.

All I said is to use our common sense. If the older tires have more than 5/32" tread depth left, I wouldn't hesitate to put them on the rear and put the new tires at front just to even out the tire wear quicker among all 4 tires. If you believe Michelin's claim that "older" tires are unsafe at the rear due to harder to control for hydroplaning, then we should replace our tires whenever the tire is not new, as many vehicles on the road will have partially worn rear tires!
If you are understeering, you simply ease off of the throttle and apply light braking as required to regain control. If you are oversteering, you do the same thing, but you should not be braking, and you have to counter-steer to correct. When counter-steering, it is very easy to over-correct. Thus recovering from understeering is much, much easier than recovering from oversteering.

Are you familiar with rotating your tires? That solves the second point you're trying to make. EDIT: I see now that you do rotate your tires regularly. I can buy into the point you're trying to make, in putting the brand new tires up front, but IMO this is only safe to do when the difference in tread depth between the new and old tires is minimal (I would only be comfortable with a spread of 2/32, otherwise I'd get the new tires shaved). Putting them up front so they wear faster to make them "even" with the rear makes sense, as long as the rear provides ample traction for the speeds/conditions you're traveling at/in.
 
Last edited:
:
2018 CX-5 Touring AWD
At only 13,029 miles, you may be better off to get one Toyo A36 tire and shave it to the same tread depth like the other three as usually stock Toyo tires should last 25K~35K miles. Discount Tire / America's Tire can do this for you. And Discount Tire / America's Tire will match the Tire Rack's price ($139.90) if their price is higher.
Americas Tire said they couldnt shave the tire to match the other three because they lacked the equipment to do it. Also the guy said they didnt recommend it. So, I just got it in all its brand new glory.
 

shadonoz

SkyActiv Member
Contributor
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State of Jefferson
:
2017 CX-5 GT AWD+
That's great, but do you disagree with the reasoning RE: understeer vs. oversteer?
Yes, I disagree with your premise. I'd rather have to correct oversteer [possible to do with the steering] than to correct understeer [not possible with steering, but only with application of rear wheel power which most cars can't do, or a reduction in speed].

Hydroplaning is a complete lack of traction, no control. Understeer and oversteer imply partial traction, with ability to correct.

And for a complete loss of traction, I'd rather lose it in the rear, so that I can continue to have steering input. Without steering, you're an unguided missile.

You're right: thinking has changed. But that doesn't mean it is right, or has even improved.
 

sm1ke

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Yes, I disagree with your premise. I'd rather have to correct oversteer [possible to do with the steering] than to correct understeer [not possible with steering, but only with application of rear wheel power which most cars can't do, or a reduction in speed].

Hydroplaning is a complete lack of traction, no control. Understeer and oversteer imply partial traction, with ability to correct.

And for a complete loss of traction, I'd rather lose it in the rear, so that I can continue to have steering input. Without steering, you're an unguided missile.

You're right: thinking has changed. But that doesn't mean it is right, or has even improved.
Correcting oversteer might be easier for you or me to understand and put into practice. But when it comes to the general population, most will over-correct and put themselves in danger. Correcting understeer is easier because in the event that a driver loses control of their vehicle, their immediate instinct is to slow down. If you hit the brakes while understeering, your front wheels have an opportunity to regain traction. Worst case scenario, you don't turn and end up going straight. If you hit the brakes while oversteering, you lose traction and it becomes even harder to correct. If it's easier for you, that's great, but it doesn't mean that the general population would react the same. I think that's why the thinking has changed, and it's why shops and manufacturers recommend what they do.
 
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