Distracted-Driver Assist Technology

Ronzuki

South Central PA
L
2018 CX5 Touring
V
w/ Pref Pkg
Yet another catastrophic and epic...FAIL. How completely and utterly ironic:

"Walter Huang, a 38-year-old Apple software engineer, was driving his Tesla Model X in Mountain View in autopilot mode at about 70 mph when it crashed into a safety barrier"
(while playing a game on his iPhone).


Cool Code...Dude?

Warning: This thread will become heated, contested, and lengthy....
 
L
N. Arizona @ 7000'
V
'19 CX-5 Reserve
Yet another catastrophic and epic...FAIL. How completely and utterly ironic:

"Walter Huang, a 38-year-old Apple software engineer, was driving his Tesla Model X in Mountain View in autopilot mode at about 70 mph when it crashed into a safety barrier" (while playing a game on his iPhone).


Cool Code...Dude?

Warning: This thread will become heated, contested, and lengthy....
As the post above states, you should actually read the article.
 
As of now cars use lane markings for assisted driving, when the lane markings are incorrect it will screw up the automomus system.

As tech evolves they may embed more guidance into the road as opposed to just the visual indicators.

IMO I welcome these changes to make roads safer. Even when you read about 1-2 of the tesla incidents its not even close to the amount of driver error accidents daily all over the place.

In time the public will adjust and be more acceptable.
For instance the first time I used radar cruise control I was wonderfully impressed.....regular standard cruise control annoys me now lol.
 
V
2019 CX5 Reserve AWD
As of now cars use lane markings for assisted driving, when the lane markings are incorrect it will screw up the automomus system.

As tech evolves they may embed more guidance into the road as opposed to just the visual indicators.

IMO I welcome these changes to make roads safer. Even when you read about 1-2 of the tesla incidents its not even close to the amount of driver error accidents daily all over the place.

In time the public will adjust and be more acceptable.
For instance the first time I used radar cruise control I was wonderfully impressed.....regular standard cruise control annoys me now lol.
The reason you only read about 1 or 2 tesla incidents is because:
#1 there ain't that many on the road
#2 Most drivers don't play games while driving along at 70mph

The technology isn't there yet. It's amazing how these tech companies are persuading the govt. to use human drivers as guinea pigs. Do they have some kind of immunity?
 
V
2019 CX5 Reserve AWD
I'm in western MA and the Model 3 is fairly common.
I'm in the Northeast corridor between DC and NY and I don't see many tesla's around. I see a lot more EV's than teslas. Plus, if somebody was using autopilot around here they'd crash in about 5 minutes. The roads suck, half have faded lines or no lines including no shoulder lines.
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
L
2018 CX5 Touring
V
w/ Pref Pkg
I see Teslas quite often on the highways and turnpike...usually passing me at decent rates of speed (I'm no slacker when driving)...with the occupant sitting behind the wheel doing everything accept driving. Leaning against the door, phone in hand is quite the norm as is engaging in full on conversation w/ a passenger. Then there are the vids floating around with napping drivers, and passengers. But hey, the car detected a non-engaged driver....and beeped....swell. Tesla's off the hook. Every experienced automation engineer knows that crying wolf (incessant beeping and alarm sounds) quickly becomes background noise and completely ignored in short order by operators. So, cry wolf sparingly. Maybe a HV jolt in the azz, ala cattle fence or dog collar tech, would be more prudent and equal to the gravity of why the alarm is being sounded aye?

These incidents continue to happen, and, it takes years for the powers that be (the NTSB) to issue the obvious...their findings that is. I am always interested in reading those reports. Such as those following up on many aircraft incidents involving faulty automation, which, are quite often disturbing. My coworker (ex-fixed wing and rotary aircraft pilot) feeds me related reports he comes across many, many years after the media fan-fare has faded.

What is completely astounding to me is that a software engineer, of all people, continued to trust the tech he would have reported as being problematic. The same 'types' of people tasked w/ writing code to operate all of this ever increasing wizardry on the roads. I truly don't even know what to think about the implications of that level of stupidity.

As far as the lame technology used for distracted driver's lane assist goes, yes, it follow lines...and they'll follow those lines straight into a concrete barrier. Nifty video floating around documenting one of those (Tesla) "accidents" doing just that. Our road courses around here are less than ideal for line following, that's for sure. Because there usually aren't any. Embed tech in the road? haha that's funny...no money to paint lines or update traffic signals to be more reactive to actual traffic loads. So there's that, the money thing and who's gonna pay.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
L
Central Virginia
V
2019 CX-5 Reserve
As of now cars use lane markings for assisted driving, when the lane markings are incorrect it will screw up the automomus system.

As tech evolves they may embed more guidance into the road as opposed to just the visual indicators.

IMO I welcome these changes to make roads safer. Even when you read about 1-2 of the tesla incidents its not even close to the amount of driver error accidents daily all over the place.

In time the public will adjust and be more acceptable.
For instance the first time I used radar cruise control I was wonderfully impressed.....regular standard cruise control annoys me now lol.
Years ago (early 90s) when this technology was still on the drawing board, I read articles stating that traffic in congested areas can be significantly improved in only 1 car in 10 is self-driving. It has something to do with computer-controlled reaction time (braking and acceleration) and the ripple effect on surrounding traffic. Fast-forward to a job I took in 2005 with a consulting firm that had a unit working with Fed and state DOTs, and I asked one of our engineers about that stat. He said that it was still valid theory.
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
L
2018 CX5 Touring
V
w/ Pref Pkg
Ahh yes, theory...it always looks good on paper (or the magical screen)...until one has to actually implement it with budgetary and time constraints. Back in the mid-late 80s, I was implementing AGV (Automatic Guided Vehicle) systems for FMC used in newsprint facilities. I know a little bit about embedded technology. In those days it was wires embedded in the concrete by saw-cutting the floors everywhere the vehicles travelled. The AGVs followed various carrier frequencies each wire was a different freq. Today we have GPS. Both have their issues for precision control of something such as an unmanned 8,000 lb. machine roaming around in a facility.

Working in the world of implementing other peoples' automation theories daily, there's one thing that more often than not rings true: We always seem to arrive at the same point, where the rubber meets the road so to speak, when theory gives way to the reality of getting a project completed, on time, within budget, and, most importantly, the unspoken assumption that end results will obviously function correctly and reliably. After all, that's what the clients are paying for. If not, lawyers are involved and heads roll. Very simple. Doesn't seem to be the case in the theoretical world of automotive autonomy. The theory of 'Good Enough' appears to be the norm as evidenced by the article above...as long as we meek consumers allow it to be so. Why? The cost of properly implementing what we seemingly desire and believe we must have is astronomical, unaffordable, and quite frankly unachievable in the current half-azzed way it is being implemented.

My real-world experience with the SBS reaction in the 2018 CX5 is that it nearly got me rear-ended, several times. Therefore, it and all of the other useless distracted-driver-assist technology is as OFF as I am able to make it in my CX5. Driving the old-fashioned, no-tech, way had never caused me to experience nearly be rear-ended in that manner that I've experienced and in such a short amount of time jumping in to and driving any vehicle. And I've driven pretty much everything with wheels that's street legal and not.

Certainly, if theorists would like to pony-up and deploy autonomous pace-cars throughout the land, at crazy stupid expense to themselves and not to me, to exercise their rights to their theories, then have at it. I'd then love to read the independent report(s) detailing actual real-world findings. Including every traffic incident the things are involved in, or more likely, have caused. Personally, I'd just as soon run any of those rolling road-hazards straight off the road and in to a very deep ditch where they belong should one of them get anywhere near me. Oh yes, I believe Uber and Google have embarked on such theoretical fantasy endeavors...on public roads, gov sanctioned...and people have died. The theorists then deemed their rolling weapons not ready for deployment. Swell. News-Flash: they'll never be ready for deployment once the pipe-dreamers face the facts of what the proper technology to achieve such a fantasy on unpredictable, public, roads subject to unpredictable weather conditions will truly cost per vehicle.

I'd rather the gov concentrate on maintaining the antiquated automation they've already over-spent good money on and make it function correctly...traffic control devices and the public road systems themselves. Embed tech in to the roads? Seriously? Stop and think about what you're implying with a statement like that...again, another complete pipe-dream. Once again, in theory, excellent idea. Then that nasty reality happens. The powers that be are still working to embed such tech in the nations rail systems. Decades now. What's the hold-up? The proper tech is, and has been, available and proven reliable. Same type of stuff I utilize every day. There's been how many train wrecks involving lots of dead people in the past few years alone? Rail systems, from an automation perspective, are fixed and highly predictable courses mind you. Very cut and dry, affected very little by weather and outside influences. And yet we're still diddling around, dragging feet, making excuses implementing very simple, proven 'safety' features. The hold-up is, of course, the staggering amount of money involved w/ the automation required. We can add that to Bernin'-Through-Money's list of campaign promises.

Embedded road sensors? Unless it's for surveillance, I don't think so.
PennDOT has spent over half a million adding a few more cameras along Rte 30 here in Lancaster recently. And yet, no one has stepped up to the plate to upgrade the traffic signals at the very same interchanges that the cameras we're installed at. Interchanges that have been plagued by problems for many years. The township says the state should deal with it and the state says the township should pay. This back-n-forth has been going on for years. Meanwhile...congestion, backups, and the usual and very predictable (not theory) BS resulting from half-azzed automation, that no one maintains nor takes responsibility for continues to worsen. Yes, automation requires maintenance despite what people think. Set-it-n-forget-it doesn't work forever. But hey, now we have more cameras so we can watch the congestion on the evening news or our dumb-phones as a public service! Brilliant. Embedded sensors :ROFLMAO:. How many millions of miles of roads are there? Far more than there are rail lines. Yes theory is a wonderful thing. But then along comes Mr. Reality.

As it stands, we the consumers, have the privilege of beta testing all of this non-sense for the automotive automation theorists at our expense (and peril) by purchasing vehicles with this garbage installed. And we basically have no choice but to purchase it if one desires a new vehicle today. Not a fan of "no choice" when I'm spending my hard earn dollars. Especially when it is something I do not want, do not need, nor believe in. There's only so much money available to build in to a car the average Joe will be able to afford to pay for. Mortgage on a car...mortgage for a house? Which do you think is more important? Many can't afford a mortgage of any kind. Unnecessary half-baked tech isn't doing anything to help bring new vehicle prices down. Merely adding high costs at the time of purchase, and, the pandora's box...repair time.
 
V
2019 CX5 Reserve AWD
Ronzuki - as someone who has worked in the technology field (large scale system development) for 30+ years I agree completely.
 
So the answer to making driving safer is just let humans manually do everything as its been?
Wonderful, we then can expect the usual amounts of accidents and distracted driving with sprinkles of road rage mixed it.

Last night the commute was BS, I had multiple drivers swerving and cutting 3 lanes of traffic because they wanted to do 80+ in a 65mph limit. I was cut off multiple times because the driver in the passing lane doing 70 wasnt moving over to a slower lane and pissed off the driver behind causing road rage and that driver cutting me off (middle lane) and cutting to the far right lane to cut EVERYONE off then slam on the brakes to "brake check" the 70mph fast lane driver. Wonderful fun.
Lets add to that all the people seen running red lights, swerving while using a handheld phone, etc.

Personally I much more trust cars with driver aids enabled (radar CC, emergency braking, etc) then fully depend on terrible drivers handling the driving responsibility alone. The extra backup assist with technology is very welcome IMO.
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
Contributor
L
Central Virginia
V
2019 CX-5 Reserve
I was just whining [again] about moving so much (especially the radio) to a computer screen.

Talk about manufacturer-induced distractions!
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
L
2018 CX5 Touring
V
w/ Pref Pkg
I was just whining [again] about moving so much (especially the radio) to a computer screen.

Talk about manufacturer-induced distractions!
Exactly. I keep my screen off, blanked. I find its illumination annoying. What I need to see and concern myself with is outside of the vehicle. There's nothing on that screen, or any gadget, that I need to see or worry about while I'm driving. I get the nav's voice instructions through the stereo if needed while I'm driving. Besides, I usually have a fairly good idea where I'm going ahead of time. anyway. It's called trip planning. Just like I've done since the age of 16 long before google maps. Radio functions via wheel controls and console knob. So the screen is merely another piece of expensive tech in the car I don't need, which, adds to the in-vehicle distractions. Sure could stand to have some heated outside mirrors though instead of a back-up camera. :cool: since that affects me, ya know, being able to see what's going on outside the vehicle in the inclement weather and all, ya know, where the expensive "blind spot monitoring" tech I don't need, or want, fails miserably. Truly well named...w/o heated mirrors, yep, I'm 'blind in those spots' when trying to merge or change lanes in the icy weather. In a small way, I really feel stupid explaining what should be common sense, really.

So the answer to making driving safer is just let humans manually do everything as its been?
Wonderful, we then can expect the usual amounts of accidents and distracted driving with sprinkles of road rage mixed it.
How do we make walking down a sidewalk safer for the perpetually distracted idiots wondering around cluelessly w/ ear buds installed starring at their dumb-phones constantly as if their lives depended upon it? You've seen them...the ones waltzing out in to traffic, bouncing off the side of a bus, or into a wall, or into a hole, or off a cliff, or whatever? Darwinism can successfully deal with that problem.

The answer is the same as it has always been...remove the distractions, all of the man-made self-induced distractions (yes, that means your God-given right to a dumb-phone at the ready 24/7), LEARN how to drive and operate the machine or perform the task at hand (or simply walk and chew gum at the same time, take your pick), and then, wait for it...hold people completely accountable for what they do. o_O God Forbid! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
V
2019 CX5 Reserve AWD
So the answer to making driving safer is just let humans manually do everything as its been?
Wonderful, we then can expect the usual amounts of accidents and distracted driving with sprinkles of road rage mixed it.

Last night the commute was BS, I had multiple drivers swerving and cutting 3 lanes of traffic because they wanted to do 80+ in a 65mph limit. I was cut off multiple times because the driver in the passing lane doing 70 wasnt moving over to a slower lane and pissed off the driver behind causing road rage and that driver cutting me off (middle lane) and cutting to the far right lane to cut EVERYONE off then slam on the brakes to "brake check" the 70mph fast lane driver. Wonderful fun.
Lets add to that all the people seen running red lights, swerving while using a handheld phone, etc.

Personally I much more trust cars with driver aids enabled (radar CC, emergency braking, etc) then fully depend on terrible drivers handling the driving responsibility alone. The extra backup assist with technology is very welcome IMO.
The aids are fine. I think the original post was talking about the autonomous mode of the tesla.
Nobody's saying get rid of back-up cameras, blindspot monitoring, radar cruise, LKAS, etc.
 

Ronzuki

South Central PA
L
2018 CX5 Touring
V
w/ Pref Pkg
Actually, I think someone is.
Absolutely Correct. As a consumer, I want the option of not paying for this over-priced garbage in a car and all the headaches that come along with it. Those that want it, think they need, and believe it works, can pay the extra dollars for it. Regardless, as I've clearly stated, the presence of this low-grade non-sense installed in these cars, Teslas and the wanna-be's included, amounts to nothing more than beta testing for these manufacturers towards the full (unachievable) autonomy pipe-dream that I am forced to fund without being asked if I want to, and, without any financial compensation for my added expense and aggravation. Quite simply, I (we) have the luxury of paying to be a beta tester for someone else's financial gain. Lane keep assist isn't merely an aid, it is a key component of autonomy or 'auto pilot' if you prefer. The car steering itself...what could go wrong? Pitched to the masses as a 'safety' feature. Another crutch in support of perpetually distracted driving.

As AvoidinDeer has eluded, modern (tech-heavy) society is hell bent on thwartin' Darwin.

Don't get me wrong, selective use of tech is, of course, a great thing. Automotive manufacturers are clearly jumping way too far out of their areas of expertise with their 'good enough' attempts at automation however. Antilock brakes, traction control all fabulous uses of tech. tried and true for the most part. Some are better at it than others. Auto climate control, set it and forget it. An actual aid in preventing distraction as compared to the days of constantly fiddling with the climate controls. A car navigating a course that the manufacturer has absolutely no control over with many thousands of impossible decisions to account for...well, that's where they're way out of their league of understanding quite obviously. The real issue is what happens when the tech fails? As the CX5's does routinely in the fowl weather. What then? Occupants will be incapable of the act of driving and at the precise time when the skills required will need to be elevated. It's proven time and again...skills of any kind...use them or lose them.

Ronzuki - as someone who has worked in the technology field (large scale system development) for 30+ years I agree completely.
Those in the know....care to wager a guess how I voted?

 

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