Debris, like fine powder blowing out of Vents - Has anyone experienced this???

[4wardmotion]

I've never seen or heard of this happening with any vehicle and I'm stumped at what could be causing this. It started about 1 month ago. Started the car and noticed something coming from the vents. It's like a fine whitish powder, but think more like a fine salt (it's slightly gritty) and not like talc or dust.

It's visible at all of the front vents and it has settled on everything that is in front of the vents. It also came out of the top vents when the defroster was on. My immediate thought was that it had something to do with the cabin air filter, but when I removed it, I saw none of this debris on either side of the filter or inside the housing where the filter sits.
The size of the debris is consistent in size - it's not like there are different size pieces. It reminds me of Diamond Crystal Salt which is very fine....just not quite as white in color.

This was my vehicle before selling it to my Pop last year and I had to replace the Fan Motor in early September due to the clogged evaporator drain....can't help but wonder if this is related, but I haven't seen anyone else complain about this issue that also experienced the clogged drain issue. The vehicle was always garaged when I had it and my Pop keeps it in the garage at his house too. But I would think that if this 'stuff' was coming from outside the vehicle, there should be a lot of it trapped at the cabin filter.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

 

[4wardmotion]

Kinda of interesting....

I found a few references online to a similar issue with the Ford Edge 2007 ~ 2009 (as well as some other Ford/Lincoln vehicles). Wasn't the CX-9 originally based upon the Edge platform and didn't they share some components, at least in the first couple of years?
Ford issued TSB # 08-26-6 to address this issue.

I'm now thinking this is possibly related to the clogged evaporator line that I had this summer and not really related to fan motor that I replaced. The TSB procedure deals with the cleaning the evaporator core (as well as some other parts).....although the TSB states that they believe the issue "...may be caused by flux utilized in the manufacturing process of the evaporator core."

I can't help but wonder if the back-up of water in the clogged drain line caused this. I shot a blast of compressed air into the outlet of the drain line....and now I wonder if that pushed the clog into places that it shouldn't be. I'm just wondering why others haven't seen this issue since this procedure was the recommended 'fix' for the clog, although a temporary one for a lot of owners.

 

[avidien]

I'm now thinking this is possibly related to the clogged evaporator line that I had this summer and not really related to fan motor that I replaced. The TSB procedure deals with the cleaning the evaporator core (as well as some other parts).....although the TSB states that they believe the issue "...may be caused by flux utilized in the manufacturing process of the evaporator core."

I can't help but wonder if the back-up of water in the clogged drain line caused this. I shot a blast of compressed air into the outlet of the drain line....and now I wonder if that pushed the clog into places that it shouldn't be. I'm just wondering why others haven't seen this issue since this procedure was the recommended 'fix' for the clog, although a temporary one for a long of owners.

sorry to hear of your troubles, the problem definitely seems to be downstream of the air filter, so changing the air filter won't do anything

a couple of questions,

1) did you buy an official OEM Mazda blower unit or the alternate one on Amazon ?
maybe take out the blower you installed and examine it for any "powder" coming from the motor ?

2) did you happen to park near the beach over the summer on a windy day where the sand got into the vents ? the filter would have caught most of it BUT if there was a lot of sand, it may have slid down into the AC system when you changed the filter.


short of a very expensive evaporator core cleaning , there's a couple of low cost options that I can think of to try first:

A) Lubegard Kool it cleaning :

B) Vacuum out whatever is in the AC system from the drain

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123852221-Anybody-fixed-a-RECURRING-A-C-drain-clog

sorry I can't be more helpful, if you Google "powder coming from car vents", you'll see Ford Edge and Toyota Prius owners have the same issues

some figured out it was a loose blower manufacturer sticker that dislodged and got chewed up by the fan blower and spitted out the vents and eventually went away.

another Prius owner had the particles analyzed by an outside lab and it was determined to be aluminum oxide crystals that formed on the coils.

hope you get it figured out, I'm almost positive it had something to do with the blower change and/or the clogged drain, I would think the amount of time the clog was there also has to be a factor. enough time for the water to oxidize the coils and also short out the original blower.

 

[S197GT]

YES!

this happened to us around november of last year. i remember because we were in siesta key, FL when this started.

if you don't know about the siesta key beaches they have a fine quartz sand that is awesome because it is almost white and doesn't get hot. it was very windy and i thought that the stuff that was blowing out and accumulating must have been sand that was landing on our car (we stayed walking distance to the beach).

it didn't make sense to me because i would have thought the filter would have caught it. i am trying to remember if it came out when the heat was on, too. i think it did, because i remember cleaning up the dust a few time after we got back; like through the winter.

it is an actual crystal-like dust. it doesn't melt. it was soooooo annoying!

good thing: it went away on its own and hasn't returned and it has been a year.

and we just went to siesta key again this month and it didn't return.

 

[4wardmotion]

Thanks for your reply and suggestions!
I'm going to work on the 9 today and see what I can uncover. I replaced the blower motor with the after market one sold on Amazon...and I'll be sure to check it out.
Just curious - have you used the LubeGard Kool-It product yourself?
Pete

 

[4wardmotion]

I don't think my parents have been near any beaches in a long time. At 85 years old - they barely travel outside of town. But I will ask them if they been driving over to park behind the old limestone plant to have sex.

 

[batmancx]

I don't think my parents have been near any beaches in a long time. At 85 years old - they barely travel outside of town. But I will ask them if they been driving over to park behind the old limestone plant to have sex.

Hahahaha. Funny!!!!! ROTFLMAO

 

[avidien]

Thanks for your reply and suggestions!
I'm going to work on the 9 today and see what I can uncover. I replaced the blower motor with the after market one sold on Amazon...and I'll be sure to check it out.
Just curious - have you used the LubeGard Kool-It product yourself?
Pete

Hi Pete,

yes, I've used the Kool_it with good results to get rid of the mildew smell,

I couldn't get the Kool-It tube thru the drain tube at the undercarriage,

so I fed the Kool-It thru the fan blades below the cabin air filter,

but I think the vacuum method will work better for you since that will actually suck the particles out of the system

give it a shot, nothing to lose and maybe save $$$ from an evap cleaning, hopes this helps you and you resolve your dad's CX-9,

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123843750-Finally-solved-flapping-noise-at-high-fan-speed-and-eliminated-musty-mildew-smell&highlight=mildew

 

[4wardmotion]

Hi Pete,

yes, I've used the Kool_it with good results to get rid of the mildew smell,

I couldn't get the Kool-It tube thru the drain tube at the undercarriage,

so I fed the Kool-It thru the fan blades below the cabin air filter,

but I think the vacuum method will work better for you since that will actually suck the particles out of the system

give it a shot, nothing to lose and maybe save $$$ from an evap cleaning, hopes this helps you and you resolve your dad's CX-9,

I spent a few hours working on the 9 this afternoon; tried to follow the TSB as best as I could, but after I was done, I turned on the blower and a large plume of white powdery debris came out of the defroster vents, even though I had the system set to the Floor vents with my vacuum attached and running to the driver's side floor vent. I'm not sure if I dislodged a lot of the debris during my attempt to clean the vent system and evaporator, or if the debris would have blown out of the vents despite my efforts......but I was disappointed to see anything coming out of the vents as I was hoping the vacuum would have sucked up any loose debris.

I removed the cabin air filter and blower motor and found no debris at all in this area. I am still assuming that this situation is related to the water that had backed-up into the system back in September. I'm not sure why this debris is 'white-ish and gritty', but this started happening after I cleared the water back-up. I wish I could rinse this evaporator with water, but I don't know where the water could end up, so I'm not about to try that.

On a side note - I first used the vacuum to try to remove anything from the evaporator drain line. Nothing came out, but I tried to insert a few different things into the outlet and found that I couldn't get anything into the outlet. I didn't have very good light, but I assumed this was a open outlet about 1/2" in diameter, but this wasn't the case, I even tried to insert a very thin (& straight) dental tool into this outlet and couldn't get it anymore than 1" into the opening. I don't know what this outlet piece actually looks like, but now I'm not surprised that it clogs so easily. Once I was done, I had the vehicle running and had to go back under to bend the heat shield back into place and noticed a continuous flow of cool air coming out of this outlet port, so I at least knew that it wasn't completely clogged.....but I wasn't expecting to feel air flow from this. But my findings were the same as you found when you attempted to introduce the Kool-It tubing into that drain line - not a good entry point for something like that, unfortunately.

I may try the Kool-It only because I don't have any other options besides having my Pop take it to a dealership....and I'm hoping to save him some money.

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

 

[astriuminc]

does it look like anything like this ? " has a grit to it rather than normal dust you’d find around the house"
if so, sorry, it doesn't look good, looks like the evaporator fins are corroded and need to be replaced, there's no way to clean them out except taking out the whole dash (not even the Kool-It will clean it out), you don't want to be breathing this stuff, it's aluminum oxide,
if you Google "white powder on dashboard" you'll see it's a common problem across all car manufacturers, see links:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123673

http://carspecmn.com/toyota-and-lexus-white-dust-on-the-dash-and-vents/

http://babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29432

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/54464-has-anyone-fixed-the-white-dust-on-dash-problem/

this poor guy, had his powder issue fixed at the dealer but the dealer mutilated his dash:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/63537-i-had-the-white-dust-on-dash-problem-fixed/

 

[avidien]

This is just my theory, so take it with a grain of salt. I think the clogged water was there for a while and if the AC system is not used on a regular basis, it just wasn't noticed until your dad noticed the blower was dead. The clogged water must have been there for some time to corrode the fins and also short out the blower.

Once the clogged water was drained by you using the compressed air can trick, the fins "dried" out leaving the little specks of grit. So, it looks like the clogged water was a gathering medium and actually prevented the powder from going thru the vents. But once the water was removed, the air started passing thru the fins again and started picking up the dried up corrosion particles and depositing them thru the vents.

Just a thought, maybe the new Amazon alternate blower is "too powerful" ? meaning way higher CFM than the OEM blower, too powerful that it's picking up the grit ? If you just use the mid to low fan settings, do you still see the grit coming out ?

From Astriuminc's links above it doesn't look like it's only a Mazda issue, a lot of manufacturers have this issue. But it seems like Lexus have the most issues on the RX330 suv. And most of the solution on those boards were to completely replace the evaporator section.

Like I said, this is just my theory, I really hope you can get it fixed. Let us know what happens, thx.

 

[4wardmotion]

This is just my theory, so take it with a grain of salt. I think the clogged water was there for a while and if the AC system is not used on a regular basis, it just wasn't noticed until your dad noticed the blower was dead. The clogged water must have been there for some time to corrode the fins and also short out the blower.

Once the clogged water was drained by you using the compressed air can trick, the fins "dried" out leaving the little specks of grit. So, it looks like the clogged water was a gathering medium and actually prevented the powder from going thru the vents. But once the water was removed, the air started passing thru the fins again and started picking up the dried up corrosion particles and depositing them thru the vents.

Just a thought, maybe the new Amazon alternate blower is "too powerful" ? meaning way higher CFM than the OEM blower, too powerful that it's picking up the grit ? If you just use the mid to low fan settings, do you still see the grit coming out ?

From Astriuminc's links above it doesn't look like it's only a Mazda issue, a lot of manufacturers have this issue. But it seems like Lexus have the most issues on the RX330 suv. And most of the solution on those boards were to completely replace the evaporator section.

Like I said, this is just my theory, I really hope you can get it fixed. Let us know what happens, thx.

I tend to agree with you that 'my' issue could be related to the clogged line and the fact that my parents likely lived with it much longer than most folks would have, which could have exasperated the issue when the water was finally drained. They didn't bring the 'clogged drain line' to my attention until the blower motor died....so the water issue could have been going on for a long time.

Not sure about the fan blower being too powerful since I have only seen this issue for myself once....but I would be surprised if my parents kept the fan speed on anything more than mid-level.

In any event, I can't have them breathing that 'dust' if it's aluminum oxide, as others have stated so I called my local Mazda shop and got a price on replacing the evaporator core, and then called a local indy shop nearby. The local guy, who has worked on the vehicle for me in the past, gave me a price that was about 300 less and included replacing the heater core too. Not a bad idea given the labor hours needed to access these parts....plus the fact the 9 has 134,000 miles and this white debris could be stuck inside the fins of the heater core too.

This will end up being the most expensive repair (by far) that will have been performed on the vehicle.....so I'm not sure we can complain (too loudly!) At least I saved my Pop about $600 on the blower motor....some consolation....but I'm not confident enough to tear out a dashboard. The one and only time I did that was on a 1979 Mercury Capri and it wasn't completely successful....nor was there anything close to the amount of 'stuff' that is packed inside most dashboards today.

 

[4wardmotion]

does it look like anything like this ? " has a grit to it rather than normal dust you’d find around the house"
if so, sorry, it doesn't look good, looks like the evaporator fins are corroded and need to be replaced, there's no way to clean them out except taking out the whole dash (not even the Kool-It will clean it out), you don't want to be breathing this stuff, it's aluminum oxide,
if you Google "white powder on dashboard" you'll see it's a common problem across all car manufacturers, see links:

Unfortunately, I have the 'gritty powder' issue so I believe the evaporator core is the source. Not a good prognosis from a wallet's perspective, that's for sure. But at least it's happening to a 9 year old vehicle with over 130K miles....and not a 2 year old Lexus that has been upgraded - only to be damaged by the dealership....I feel for that guy.

 

[S197GT]

well, like our said, ours went away and it has been 1 yr. a/c still works fine.

i looked at the pics on the e90 forum. it kind of looks like what we had (at least the first page pics) but ours was very fine. and it covered everything. it was so fine it didn't even collect right near the vents; it blew all over.

i'll let you know if it returns or our a/c goes out.

the lexus forum pics look a lot like what we had. well, we will see!

 

[4wardmotion]

I got the 9 back last night. After discussing the issue with the mechanic, we agreed that it was probably best to replace the heater core along with the evaporator core while the dashboard was apart since it only raised the cost of the repair by about $150. Since the bulk of the cost of this repair was labor time to remove and reinstall the dash I thought it made sense to do the heater core too......especially since the vehicle is over 8 years old and has 133K miles.
The total cost was just over $1K - by far the priciest repair I've ever paid for on any vehicle. But I know others that have paid a heck of lot more for other types of repairs (engine, transmission, etc.) so I'm not going to complain because I've had very good luck with all vehicles I've ever owned.

I had him save the evaporator core for me. It's bigger than I would have imagined - it's almost 12" square. You can see a transition of color on the core, which I assume might be the area (on the bottom 1/3) that may have been sitting in water for a long time due to the clogged drain line. He told me that area had a thick coat of white powder on it but during removal, most of it fell off.



I'm still surprised that others here haven't run into this issue, but I assume it must be related to the amount of time the evaporator drain line may have been clogged.....IF that's really what caused the white powder. In any case, a good reason not to let the issue go on for very long.

 

[avidien]

I had him save the evaporator core for me. It's bigger than I would have imagined - it's almost 12" square. You can see a transition of color on the core, which I assume might be the area (on the bottom 1/3) that may have been sitting in water for a long time due to the clogged drain line. He told me that area had a thick coat of white powder on it but during removal, most of it fell off.

good info to know, thanks for sharing 4wardmotion! I'll keep an eye out for any clogged drains,
maybe do a quick check every 2 weeks just to be safe. the CX-9 drain get clogged way too easily!