Dangerous cylinder deactivation trouble on 2018 CX-5 and 6 models

yugrus

Contributor
V
CX-5 GT
Well, they're not out of money here, you are. You've gotta spend your gift card at your beloved dealership, right?
 
L
Ottawa, Ontario
V
17 Mazda 6 GT
They said no work will be done bc mazda corporate techs did not see any reason to check bc no faults or codes are being thrown
Doesn't this just frost your socks these days?
It doesn't throw a code, so there's no need to look for a problem? Total BS, but that's the way these guys are taught to troubleshoot and fix things.
If my wiper blade arm breaks off, it won't throw a code either, so does that mean they won't fix it or look at it?
How about if I get a flat tire? Oops, no code, tire must be OK. Don't bother looking at it.
Sheesh.
 
V
2018 CX-5 Sport
Called dealership. They said no work will be done bc mazda corporate techs did not see any reason to check bc no faults or codes are being thrown and noise is coming from the engine bay.

Made a quick call over to mazda corporate and explained the situation. They ended up offering me a gift card for the total bill of the work required to remove the valve cover and inspecting the rocker arms. Is this how things are supposed to work? Probably not but if the end result remains the same and they check the rocker arm and I'm not out of pocket for it then I guess its fine. Ive just had to make a lot more phone calls than I should have.
You meant no noise, right? Your car might be fine if it has not gone into limp mode after all this time.
 

madar

Contributor
V
2016.5 CX 5 Touring AWD, 2015 SCION XB
Doesn't this just frost your socks these days?
It doesn't throw a code, so there's no need to look for a problem? Total BS, but that's the way these guys are taught to troubleshoot and fix things.
If my wiper blade arm breaks off, it won't throw a code either, so does that mean they won't fix it or look at it?
How about if I get a flat tire? Oops, no code, tire must be OK. Don't bother looking at it.
Sheesh.
That's the way it is, no code then no problem, and no proactive action like taking something apart to see if anything is going bad. If they don't see it then no problem exists. Yes, it really frosts my socks...
 

yugrus

Contributor
V
CX-5 GT
Don't blame the dealership though. Mechanics have to be paid, they will not take the valve cover off for free. The dealer, rightfully, has no interest to pay for it. So it is between Mazda and the owner.
 

sm1ke

Work In Progress..
Moderator
Contributor
L
Canada
V
'18 CX-9 Signature
Don't blame the dealership though. Mechanics have to be paid, they will not take the valve cover off for free. The dealer, rightfully, has no interest to pay for it. So it is between Mazda and the owner.
Agree with this. The gift card is just how MNAO intends to cover the cost of the work to be done without making the dealership eat the cost.
 
"Thanks GoHawks. I took the car to the dealership and the diagnostic test was P0304=Cylinder 4 Misfire. They did reflash the PCM and the problem seemed to have been resolved with the flash. I asked them if this was simply software or if it was hardware related. They said software only but now you've got me wondering if they even checked anything on the engine."

jjm86m...This is your post from your other thread. Your car originally coded P0304. Did you remind them of that? The wrong PCM program will not cause a misfire without there being something wrong with that cylinder. This should have been enough for them to look under the valve cover.
 
V
2018 Mazda CX5 Machine Gray
Well, they're not out of money here, you are. You've gotta spend your gift card at your beloved dealership, right?
The voucher is expressly to cover the work of removing the valve cover. It was never meant to be for any other purpose. I'm well aware that someone is covering the cost and that the dealership isn't going to do the work for free.

My point with the comment "this probably isn't the way things are supposed to work" was simply voicing frustration over the fact that if there is no code or no noise then there is apparently no problem. This is in spite of the fact that in this case I have documentation that there was an previous issue specific to my car and an associated TSB that outlined instructions to inspect the car that wasn't followed the first time around. I've read on this thread that people can't believe that the dealership doesn't know about certain TSB's. To a certain extent that may be true that techs need to be informed but in reality dealerships are servicing many Mazda models from across multiple years. To expect the service team to know each and everyone offhand for all makes/models/years is unrealistic but I would expect that they at least put a little more effort into investigating the problems that customers bring in.

The bottom line is that the dealership was in a no win situation where Mazda wasn't going to pay for the work based on their corporate technician's assessment and I wasn't willing to pay out of pocket on something I felt should be covered under the powertrain warranty. Mazda Customer Service was quick to provide a solution in the form of a voucher after I raised the issue as a safety concern and explained the situation. Kudos to them.


Today's update is that the dealer pulled the valve cover and found there is an issue with the cylinder #4 "lifter arm". I asked for clarification on rocker arm vs lifter arm and it sounded to be the same thing. Mazda Corporate has asked for pictures and videos from the dealership and will provide input to the dealership on next steps. Stay tuned.
 
V
2013 Mazda CX-5 Sport FWD Auto
VINDICATED! All of that work and you get the pleasure of an "I told you so!"

Nicely done. Great job being patient and getting this inspected free of charge!
 

yugrus

Contributor
V
CX-5 GT
Great job, congrats! I hope if Mazda pays for enough cases like that, there will be some global solution.
 
Awesome job jjm86m!!! I hope you get a complete resolution and some satisfaction of knowing that you can say "I told you so" to your dealership and Mazda.
 
V
2018 CX-5 Sport
The voucher is expressly to cover the work of removing the valve cover. It was never meant to be for any other purpose. I'm well aware that someone is covering the cost and that the dealership isn't going to do the work for free.

My point with the comment "this probably isn't the way things are supposed to work" was simply voicing frustration over the fact that if there is no code or no noise then there is apparently no problem. This is in spite of the fact that in this case I have documentation that there was an previous issue specific to my car and an associated TSB that outlined instructions to inspect the car that wasn't followed the first time around. I've read on this thread that people can't believe that the dealership doesn't know about certain TSB's. To a certain extent that may be true that techs need to be informed but in reality dealerships are servicing many Mazda models from across multiple years. To expect the service team to know each and everyone offhand for all makes/models/years is unrealistic but I would expect that they at least put a little more effort into investigating the problems that customers bring in.

The bottom line is that the dealership was in a no win situation where Mazda wasn't going to pay for the work based on their corporate technician's assessment and I wasn't willing to pay out of pocket on something I felt should be covered under the powertrain warranty. Mazda Customer Service was quick to provide a solution in the form of a voucher after I raised the issue as a safety concern and explained the situation. Kudos to them.


Today's update is that the dealer pulled the valve cover and found there is an issue with the cylinder #4 "lifter arm". I asked for clarification on rocker arm vs lifter arm and it sounded to be the same thing. Mazda Corporate has asked for pictures and videos from the dealership and will provide input to the dealership on next steps. Stay tuned.
Wow, just as Go Hawks predicted. I hope that they share the pictures with you so we can see what it looks like. Also see what they say caused it, if they have the same explanation that they gave Go Hawks or if they have a different reason why it broke.
 
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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg. Plano, TX
Contributor
L
Plano, Texas, USA
V
16 CX-5 GT AWD Tec
* Today's update is that the dealer pulled the valve cover and found there is an issue with the cylinder #4 "lifter arm". I asked for clarification on rocker arm vs lifter arm and it sounded to be the same thing. Mazda Corporate has asked for pictures and videos from the dealership and will provide input to the dealership on next steps. Stay tuned.
Yes rocker arm is the lifter arm. I really feel this's a very strange experience for you as Mazda has officially sent a service alert to NHTSA, that means Mazda North American Operations have also sent the same alert to all of their dealers. It does instruct the dealer to open the valve cove and check the rocker arm at cylinder #4 if the engine fell into the limp mode when it revs at high rpm and got the misfire code on cylinder #4. I wonder why the Mazda dealer can't follow the service alert to do it and get paid by Mazda? The gift card thing for you to pay the cost of inspection of rocker arm is ridiculous to me.

Glad now you found the real issue and I wonder are you going to get a "new" engine, or the tech just put the rocker arm back to the position?

Although you're the first to report this issue, but nobody would know what's going on here at the time. Not until Go Hawks the OP came out and posted his research and experience on such weird issue, we realized Mazda made a big design mistake on cylinder deactivation and every SkyActiv-G 2.5L with CD would potentially have its rocker arm falling off on cylinders with CD. We should appreciate Go Hawks who started this thread, although some here was questioning he was spreading fake news.

Lastly, I don't believe a software change with higher oil pressure to Hydraulic Lash Adjuster or Hydraulic Lifter during the CD phase can truly resolve this problem. The HLA's for cylinder #1 and #4 need to be redesigned in such a way that even at the lowest oil pressure, it won't be too low and let the rocker arm fall off. Or some holder needs to be added to keep the rocker arms at the bay hence even the HLA's are at their lowest or shortest the rocker arms would stay put.
 
V
2018 CX-5 Touring
Have to ask even though it may sound silly. Can a flexible scope get to that area with the valve cover on via the oil fill hole ?
 
Thanks yrwei52. Now jjm86m is in the same boat as we are. The car is fixed and, in our case, has a new engine but we still dont feel secure. Because, like you, we are not sure that we buy Mazdas explanation of the cause. And, since there is no indication of the problem existing until its too late, my wife is a nervous wreck any time a bell dings or an alarm sounds while she is in the car. So, we are forced to drive this until we can get through with the lease and then move on from Mazda. Mind you, this is our third Mazda but most likely will be our last.
 
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