2013 100k Clutch Pedal Soft Overnight - Clutch Gone?

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2013 CX-5 Sport Manual
I found the clutch pedal soft in the morning, especially the first half (increased free play, with grip very close to the floor). Basically same symptoms as @timberstx said in this thread.

Symptoms of my CMC going bad was too much pedal free play. And I only had to lift the pedal off the floor a little and the car started to move.

I left at [a random] mechanic, hoping it is just the master or slave clutch cylinder but they said clutch is gone. Waiting for estimate. My previous stick lasted 130k miles without clutch replacement but I did had clutch master cylinder fail on it and it did feel similar.Except I remember it getting slightly harder as I was pumping more. I don't have this feeling now but is it possible for the clutch to be really gone at 100k miles? Will the pedal feel soft suddenly overnight if is going away?
 

CarpeDiem

Under Pressure
:
Superstitions
:
2021 Carbon T
Is it possible? Sure, depending on use etc. Frankly, IMO 100 K miles is pretty good for a manual clutch. As for going ”bad” overnight, that’s odd unless it’s an hydraulic issue.
 
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Pueblo county CO
:
CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
I have had cars with a cable clutch and after many miles you could tell the difference in the pedal height. It didn't change suddenly. You could adjust the cable to compensate.
Have you considered checking with some other mechanics or shops for another opinion?
 
:
2013 CX-5 Sport Manual
I have had cars with a cable clutch and after many miles you could tell the difference in the pedal height. It didn't change suddenly. You could adjust the cable to compensate.
Have you considered checking with some other mechanics or shops for another opinion?
Definitely will get second opinion, may be even 3rd. I have trust issues with mechanics. I had a Civic Si and was told by 2 independent mechanics that the transmission is gone (gears grinding when shifting). End up replacing the transmission oil (it was low) and drove it (hard) for another 50k miles with zero issues.
 
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2013 CX-5 Sport Manual
As for going ”bad” overnight, that’s odd unless it’s an hydraulic issue.
That is why I am questioning the diagnosis. I don't see any leaks yet. It is drive-ble but drastic difference from the night before. Could it be that they designed it such way so it warns you before the end of life?
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I found the clutch pedal soft in the morning, especially the first half (increased free play, with grip very close to the floor). Basically same symptoms as @timberstx said in this thread.

Symptoms of my CMC going bad was too much pedal free play. And I only had to lift the pedal off the floor a little and the car started to move.

I left at [a random] mechanic, hoping it is just the master or slave clutch cylinder but they said clutch is gone. Waiting for estimate. My previous stick lasted 130k miles without clutch replacement but I did had clutch master cylinder fail on it and it did feel similar.Except I remember it getting slightly harder as I was pumping more. I don't have this feeling now but is it possible for the clutch to be really gone at 100k miles? Will the pedal feel soft suddenly overnight if is going away?
Have you ever replaced the brake fluid including bleeding the port on clutch master cylinder if there’s one?

My guess is your brake master cylinder developed an internal leak overnight and an expensive replacement is inevitable. You can try bleeding the brake fluid from clutch master cylinder at first but usually it’s hard to access the bleeding port on CMC.

Apparently the clutch master cylinder on CX-5 is not built bullet-proof, and timberstx’s CMC is an example.

if the clutch itself has worn and needs replacement, it won’t happen overnight.
 
:
Pueblo county CO
:
CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
It should be easier and cheaper to replace the master cylinder than the clutch.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
It should be easier and cheaper to replace the master cylinder than the clutch.
Yes, and replacing the clutch master cylinder seems to be a difficult job to me as DIYer after reading the workshop manual.
 
:
2013 CX-5 Sport Manual
You can try bleeding the brake fluid from clutch master cylinder at first but usually it’s hard to access the bleeding port on CMC.
This is a good idea. I noticed the mechanic filled up the break fluid to the top. They probably tested it the system under pressure. If there was a leak, a I should start seeing the fluid drop, right?

On the other hand, I am realizing today it is not just a soft pedal but the functuanal range of the clutch is very short, meaning I have to be more presise and slower with the leg action.
 
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2014 mazda cx-5 touring FWD
Having had clutches and some of them hydraulic at that, this seems simple based on experience. First of all, a worn clutch grabs when the pedal is almost fully released (not close to the floor), and if bad enough, will slip with the pedal fully released and no adjustment left. It's a NEW clutch disc ( and hopefully pressure plate and throwout bearing) that will grab a lot closer to the floor and requires adjustment.
To simplify things and ensure future reliability, it makes sense to replace both the clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder and get on with life lest one is replaced only to have the other suddenly fail and let you sit. The slave cylinder, being at a low point where gravity settles water, can fail due to water induced rusted bore ( brake fluid is hygroscopic) which cuts seal and causes internal leakage. The slave cylinder does not have to leak externally to be bad. Fix the hydraulics first and then see how the clutch works. I think that shop's diagnosis is a bit premature. Just my take on the situation.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
⋯ If there was a leak, a I should start seeing the fluid drop, right?
Not necessary. Most of time the leak is internal inside of master cylinder, and you won’t see any brake fluid dripping and the fluid level won’t drop either.

Jmaz’s post above explained the clutch problems perfectly and your problem could also come from slave cylinder due to the rust by moisture if you haven’t change the brake fluid on clutch cylinders for a long time. But you usually can tell if the salve cylinder is failing by the sign of fluid leak around salve cylinder.
 
:
2013 CX-5 Sport Manual
Having had clutches and some of them hydraulic at that, this seems simple based on experience. First of all, a worn clutch grabs when the pedal is almost fully released (not close to the floor), and if bad enough, will slip with the pedal fully released and no adjustment left. It's a NEW clutch disc ( and hopefully pressure plate and throwout bearing) that will grab a lot closer to the floor and requires adjustment.
To simplify things and ensure future reliability, it makes sense to replace both the clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder and get on with life lest one is replaced only to have the other suddenly fail and let you sit. The slave cylinder, being at a low point where gravity settles water, can fail due to water induced rusted bore ( brake fluid is hygroscopic) which cuts seal and causes internal leakage. The slave cylinder does not have to leak externally to be bad. Fix the hydraulics first and then see how the clutch works. I think that shop's diagnosis is a bit premature. Just my take on the situation.

Not necessary. Most of time the leak is internal inside of master cylinder, and you won’t see any brake fluid dripping and the fluid level won’t drop either.

Jmaz’s post above explained the clutch problems perfectly and your problem could also come from slave cylinder due to the rust by moisture if you haven’t change the brake fluid on clutch cylinders for a long time. But you usually can tell if the salve cylinder is failing by the sign of fluid leak around salve cylinder.
Thanks guys. I have not changed the brake fluid but it sounds like I should do it together with the master and slave cylinders change. Opening the service manual now to check complexity level (I have changed a master on Civic before).
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Thanks guys. I have not changed the brake fluid but it sounds like I should do it together with the master and slave cylinders change. Opening the service manual now to check complexity level (I have changed a master on Civic before).
Read the other thread by timbetstx especially the post #6 and #7 which offered his experience of replacing clutch master cylinder.

Clutch Master cylinder leaking

Apparently timbetstx didn’t replace the clutch salve cylinder. It’s up to you if you checked the salve cylinder and didn’t see any extrtnal leaks.

Changing the clutch master cylinder definitely is more involved than changing the brake master cylinder.
 
:
2014 mazda cx-5 touring FWD
Not necessary. Most of time the leak is internal inside of master cylinder, and you won’t see any brake fluid dripping and the fluid level won’t drop either.

Jmaz’s post above explained the clutch problems perfectly and your problem could also come from slave cylinder due to the rust by moisture if you haven’t change the brake fluid on clutch cylinders for a long time. But you usually can tell if the salve cylinder is failing by the sign of fluid leak around salve cylinder.
yrwei52 is correct about external signs of fluid leakage, which would be most of the time. I've seen the whole slave cylinder looking wet or leakage at the rubber boot on the end.
 

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