Winter is here and my CX-5 turbo is now a 2.0L!

[Odrapnew]

Anti-lock braking system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ABS is an automated system that uses the principles of threshold braking and cadence braking, techniques which were once practiced by skillful drivers before ABSes were widespread. ABS operates at a much faster rate and more effectively than most drivers could manage.

So yes, you could say that ABS reduces braking performance if you're one of those skillful drivers who can brake better than the ABS system can.

ABS is to braking as Traction Control is to acceleration?

ABS is active at the limit of traction. My interpretation of this power cut is that it's well below the limit of traction.

 

[sm1ke]

ABS is to braking as Traction Control is to acceleration?

ABS is active at the limit of traction. My interpretation of this power cut is that it's well below the limit of traction.

You only asked if the braking performance is reduced when it's cold. You're the one comparing the two, not me.

For the record, no, they do not reduce the braking performance based on temperature. Instead, ABS kicks in at the limit of traction, as you said. Without doing any research, I would think that losing traction at speed is much harder for the system (or the driver) to predict or correct than coming to a stop - maybe that's why they did it this way. Or maybe some of the tiny horses in the engine stop running on their wheels because their union contract stipulates that 19F is too cold. Who knows.

The point is that Mazda has been doing this for years, seemingly by design, with this "tuning quirk" being aggressive on some models and almost imperceptible on others. I think we can all collectively agree that we want to know why it's being done, and how it's being done (and for some of us, whether this quirk can be eliminated by a tune).

 

[Odrapnew]

Sorry, I meant that first line to be a statement, not a question.

And, I agree with your last paragraph.

 

[7eregrine]

I'm seeing the complaints beginning to pile up, sorry. Not trolling just observing:
- less than comfortable seats (mostly fat guys saying this) /teasing
- excessive paint chipping (mine is bad)
- crappy service at dealerships (this I have issue with. My dealer is FANTASTIC)
- losing power when its cold (never seen this ever, with any car) (No comment as I dont have this car)

 

[2001birdowner]

I’m thinking the safety/prevent traction loss theory is bogus.

32*F and snow/rain today and it had all the power.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

I’m thinking the safety theory/prevent traction loss theory is bogus.

32*F and snow/rain today and it had all the power.

If it were a safety thing, then Mazda would use the wiper's rain sensors to know when the roads really are wet & slippery and choke back the power then. The whole notion that Cold Always=Slick is silly, and it's dead wrong (of course).

Besides, if choking back the power in the cold is a safety issue, then every single other turbo manufacturer whose products perform better in cold weather must be trying to kill off their customer base.

 

[sm1ke]

I’m thinking the safety/prevent traction loss theory is bogus.

32*F and snow/rain today and it had all the power.

That's cool. I think it's legit for the reasons I've previously provided. You think it's bogus for your own reasons. We both still want to know what's actually happening and why.

If it were a safety thing, then Mazda would use the wiper's rain sensors to know when the roads really are wet & slippery and choke back the power then. The whole notion that Cold Always=Slick is silly, and it's dead wrong (of course).

Besides, if choking back the power in the cold is a safety issue, then every single other turbo manufacturer whose products perform better in cold weather must be trying to kill off their customer base.

What's with the absolute statements?

For the record, I never said that Cold Always = Slick. I said the risk of ice forming is higher. The risk varies, and is dependent on a lot of things (humidity/precipitation, asphalt/concrete, snow and ice control measures, etc.). Mazda's sensors aren't so sophisticated that they can assess the type of pavement or what chemicals are being used for snow and ice control. Further to that, people have varying thresholds for when they choose to turn on their wipers. Someone who's never applied a rain repellant will likely turn on their wipers before those who have applied a repellant, for example.

It's obviously also not strictly a safety issue for the reasons you and others have mentioned previously, but if the performance is reduced based on ambient temps, it's likely related to safety in some way or another (maintain traction, protect the engine, or something else).

Other manufacturers might be able to mitigate whatever this issue is through other ways (or might not have to deal with it at all). Subaru's Symmetrical AWD (and maybe Audi's Quattro?) is superior to Mazda's, maybe that's why they don't have this issue. Or maybe Acura's engine design accounts for something that Mazda hasn't figured out yet, and that's why Mazda is being so tight-lipped on the issue.

Who knows.

 

[RedBaron]

Subaru's Symmetrical AWD (and maybe Audi's Quattro?) is superior to Mazda's, maybe that's why they don't have this issue.

Why do you think this? Do you know what Subaru's Symmetrical AWD is? It's basically just marketing hype around their longitudinally mounted engine and I doubt it has anything much (if actually ANYthing) over Mazda and other manufacturer's. Real AWD advantages nowadays are all in electronic torque distribution.

Here is a brief video description of Symmetrical AWD from Subaru themselves:

 

[ZoomZoomForever]

That's cool. I think it's legit for the reasons I've previously provided. You think it's bogus for your own reasons. We both still want to know what's actually happening and why.



What's with the absolute statements?

For the record, I never said that Cold Always = Slick. I said the risk of ice forming is higher. The risk varies, and is dependent on a lot of things (humidity/precipitation, asphalt/concrete, snow and ice control measures, etc.). Mazda's sensors aren't so sophisticated that they can assess the type of pavement or what chemicals are being used for snow and ice control. Further to that, people have varying thresholds for when they choose to turn on their wipers. Someone who's never applied a rain repellant will likely turn on their wipers before those who have applied a repellant, for example.

It's obviously also not strictly a safety issue for the reasons you and others have mentioned previously, but if the performance is reduced based on ambient temps, it's likely related to safety in some way or another (maintain traction, protect the engine, or something else).

Other manufacturers might be able to mitigate whatever this issue is through other ways (or might not have to deal with it at all). Subaru's Symmetrical AWD (and maybe Audi's Quattro?) is superior to Mazda's, maybe that's why they don't have this issue. Or maybe Acura's engine design accounts for something that Mazda hasn't figured out yet, and that's why Mazda is being so tight-lipped on the issue.

Who knows.

Uhh, NO!

 

[40752]

Maybe someone can contact engineer Dave Coleman at Mazda headquarters in Calif?

 

[CX-5um]

I'm trying to find info on a TSB related to cold weather............are we no longer posting TSBs?

 

[sm1ke]

Why do you think this? Do you know what Subaru's Symmetrical AWD is? It's basically just marketing hype around their longitudinally mounted engine and I doubt it has anything much (if actually ANYthing) over Mazda and other manufacturer's. Real AWD advantages nowadays are all in electronic torque distribution.

I'm guilty of absolute statements as well. I probably should have said "Subaru's Symmetrical AWD (and maybe Audi's Quattro?) might be more superior to Mazda's i-Activ AWD".

Uhh, NO!

Ok.

 

[2001birdowner]

That's cool. I think it's legit for the reasons I've previously provided. You think it's bogus for your own reasons. We both still want to know what's actually happening and why

Sure.

My latest post on this wasn’t directed at you. Just an observation that if it is for safety and traction, it’s illogical for Mazda to program it like this because roads can be iced over when it’s in the 30s, yet power isn’t reduced.

 

[2001birdowner]

I'm trying to find info on a TSB related to cold weather............are we no longer posting TSBs?

There was a cold weather performance issue on earlier 2.0 skyactivs. I think they were going into a partial limp mode because of a faulty sensor or programming.

Please do share what you can if you find something. This isn’t a minor issue that Mazda should be hiding.

 

[finch204]

So, it's been a few days, has anyone datalogged to see if the reduced power during these reported events is due to less boost?

 

[2001birdowner]

Maybe someone can contact engineer Dave Coleman at Mazda headquarters in Calif?

Pretty sure Unobtanium tried contacting him last year but no luck.

Would love to hear what Coleman has this about this.

 

[CatsPaw]

I'm not going to add much here because I was shouted out of the room the last time I tried to participate. I just want to note that at the temperatures you guys are discussing the power loss condition is mild at best. You should experience it when it's -20F like I did. The issue is SEVERE at that temperature to the point where the vehicle is dangerous to drive.

Yes, all cars have issues at severe temperatures like that, but I have owned many over the years and have never experienced a (my honest estimate here) 60-70% loss of engine power that only goes away very gradually over the course 30-60 minutes of sustained driving. That was for a partial recovery, at that temp it will not make full power no matter how long it's been running.

I no longer own my CX-5, the horrible seat bottom bolster design finally drove the nail in that coffin, but I still like the brand and would own another one if they can get weird design issues like that and this worked out.

 

[velocityc6]

Pretty sure Unobtanium tried contacting him last year but no luck.

Would love to hear what Coleman has this about this.

I'm sure this is a known issue to Mazda engineering. Heck Dave Coleman has responded directly to an unflaterring test of the AWD system on the CX9 a couple years ago by a YouTube reviewer.
If enough buzz was generated, I'm sure some type of answer can be found.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

What's with the absolute statements?

For the record, I never said that Cold Always = Slick.

Hey, man.

My comments were not directed at you. Sorry if it seemed that way.

If you read earlier in this thread and in all other previous threads on this subject, the going opinion is that the power is being choked back to protect us from ourselves when there may be ice on the roads because it's cold outside. I've commented before that the theory makes no sense because it's choked back somewhere under 20°, when freezing = 32°. None of those observations were directed at anyone...just mere statements of fact.

Regarding "Other manufacturers might be able to mitigate whatever this issue is through other ways (or might not have to deal with it at all)" Other manufacturers are mitigating nothing. There is no issue to mitigate. There never has been an issue in the history of turbo cars. Other turbos universally excel in cold weather, while Mazda has not only stopped this one from getting sportier, it has intentionally choked it back.

If there's an issue to mitigate, Mazda is the first one to ever see it.

This is a legitimate significant complaint (as are the seats and other issues discussed here). I don't see why discussion on this specific conversation gets shot down like this.

 

[jaycal6]

So, it's been a few days, has anyone datalogged to see if the reduced power during these reported events is due to less boost?

Yeah, would love to see some actual data instead of a bunch of subjective info