Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

[CX5-SO]

I did a drain and fill on the wife's 2013 last fall. I had the vehicle up and as level as I could possibly get it. I let it drain for 2 hours. I emptied the drained fluid into a leveled and known correctly marked container. The amount drained came to exactly center of the 4 litre (4.23 Qts) mark on the container. I measured 4 litres into a fresh identical container plus an extra 8 ounces (4.48 Qts total) to account for air bubbles and Mazda under filling practices and poured that into the tranny. This ended up checking at just about perfect for the fill so, I called it a day. Dropping the pan may yield a tad more drainage, I would buy at least 5 Qts. if doing so.

 

[yrwei52]

Do i also need around 4 quartz of oil if i drop the pan?

Post #276 by Boland01 says he used almost 6 quarts of ATF FZ when he dropped the pan. But based on specs from Mazda, it should take 3.7~5.18 quarts (again, approximate volume in Mazda‘s way) with filter cartridge replacement. This person in his YouTube video in the attached link used 3.57 liters / 3.77 quarts with ATF filter cartridge change. As for the pan gasket, I’d still follow Mazda workshop instruction and use some type of ATF friendly silicon seal like the video shown. The toughest part is to clean up the old factory seal without scratching the sealing surface, the sealing job is much easier even with silicon seal. From my past experience those cork gasket used on ATF pan is too easy to develop leaks.

Guide: ATF Drain/Fill

FW6A-EL for SkyActiv-G FWD and FW6AX-EL for SkyActiv-G AWD.
- Total ATF capacity is 7.8L / 8.24 US quarts.
- Drain-and-fill estimate including filter replacement: 3.5~4.9L / 3.7~5.18 US Quarts.

 

[bluefire_xl]

Thanks for the responses. The dealer is telling me its around 7.8 liters. Seems a lot so i want to confirm it with other owners.

 

[ruthrj]

Thanks for the responses. The dealer is telling me its around 7.8 liters. Seems a lot so i want to confirm it with other owners.

That’s about the total capacity of the transmission they’re quoting, not what drains out of the pan ; )

 

[bluefire_xl]

Same thought.

 

[PatrickGSR94]

2015 MAZDA CX-5 2.5L L4 Filter | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

2016 MAZDA CX-5 2.5L L4 Filter | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

How can the ATP part listed under the 2015 link apply to 2013-2015 MY's, but the Beck Arnley version applies to all 2013-2018 models? Why wouldn't both parts apply to the same model year range?

 

[CX5_Driver]

How can the ATP part listed under the 2015 link apply to 2013-2015 MY's, but the Beck Arnley version applies to all 2013-2018 models? Why wouldn't both parts apply to the same model year range?

Lazy manufacture parts compatibility database updates. If in doubt call ATP directly.

 

[dunhillmc]

I just noticed that there has been a change in the capacity specs in the 2020 owner's manual vs older ones.
The old capacity for the 2.5L said 7.8 L (8.2 US qt, 6.9 Imp qt). In the 2020 manual it now says 7.8 L (8.2 US qt, 6.9 Imp qt)/8.0 L (8.5 US qt, 7.0 Imp qt), but it doesn't differentiate when one capacity applies over the other

 

[ruthrj]

I’d consider than an acceptable range now. I wonder if that’s the difference between min and max on the dipstick or something.

 

[yrwei52]

I just noticed that there has been a change in the capacity specs in the 2020 owner's manual vs older ones.
The old capacity for the 2.5L said 7.8 L (8.2 US qt, 6.9 Imp qt). In the 2020 manual it now says 7.8 L (8.2 US qt, 6.9 Imp qt)/8.0 L (8.5 US qt, 7.0 Imp qt), but it doesn't differentiate when one capacity applies over the other

Actually according to Mazda CX-5 owner’s manual, the total ATF “approximate” capacity on SkyActiv-Drive transmission for 2.5L has been changed from 8.2 US quarts to 8.5 US quarts since 2018 MY. The reason is Mazda has modified the SkyActiv-Drive transmission to fight the vibration from cylinder deactivation which has been added to naturally aspirated 2.5L since 2018 MY. Mazda may enlarged the ATF pan during the change for a bit more ATF capacity. Mazda has also added an oil level sensor to the engine oil pan when they implemented the cylinder deactivation to the 2.5L for MY 2018 and later.

8.2 US quart ATF capacity is for older version transmission which is for some non-CD 2.5L NA. Such engine is still available for base model CX-5 in Canada and some CX-30’s.

 

[dunhillmc]

Actually according to Mazda CX-5 owner’s manual, the total ATF “approximate” capacity on SkyActiv-Drive transmission for 2.5L has been changed from 8.2 US quarts to 8.5 US quarts since 2018 MY. The reason is Mazda has modified the SkyActiv-Drive transmission to fight the vibration from cylinder deactivation which has been added to naturally aspirated 2.5L since 2018 MY. Mazda may enlarged the ATF pan during the change for a bit more ATF capacity. Mazda has also added an oil level sensor to the engine oil pan when they implemented the cylinder deactivation to the 2.5L for MY 2018 and later.

8.2 US quart ATF capacity is for older version transmission which is for some non-CD 2.5L NA. Such engine is still available for base model CX-5 in Canada and some CX-30’s.

Yeah, it looks like a printing mess up. In the owner's manual for the newest Mazda 3s, they separate the capacities for non-CD and CD 2.5L and there is a 0.3 quart difference between them.

 

[Schmed]

This only becomes an issue after about 150K+ miles. At 100K there really is no risk to change your transmission fluid and pan filter, as the transmission is not relying on those little metal bits for friction just yet. Better late than never. Ask me how I know...

If you are changing your pan filter by 125K or so, whatever leftover metal particles will get caught by the new magnet filter. This is why so many people advise against a simple drain/fill at this mileage, because those metal particles are much less likely to get caught by the old original filter.

I changed the trans fluid in my 06 Jeep Commander at 125K miles, it was brown, contaminated and all around done. After I changed it, a year ago, smoother shifting, the “manual” option woks again (stopped working), and it feels great, brand new again, so smooth. If youre concerned with fluid replacemen, just do 1 drain and fill (probably only gets 1/3rd of the fluid, most in your torque converter and some still in the valve body, planets, and clutch plates, etc. Drive around a bit and do again. Do not “shock” it, as they say.

I have a 2016.5 CX5 with 13000 miles, I plan to do a trans drain/fill at 25K miles, in addition to diff / xfer case fluid changes. I do oil change every 5K with Mazda OEM 0W20 synthetic, its expensive, but only OEM while under warranty.

 

[PatrickGSR94]

well I'm embarrassed to say that I'm just now getting around to doing this, despite purchasing 12 quarts of ATF FZ back in March 2019 when the car only had ~84K miles. Life got in the way, I bought a NB1 Miata in July 2019, and that car has had several projects since then. Now the CX-5 is just about to hit 113K miles.

So now it's underway as I type this. I just let the car warm up to verify the fluid level. Used an Autel BT OBD2 dongle, and its app on my phone, and checked it when the ATF temp reported 122 deg.

Something to note, when the engine coolant temp was above 130 (blue light off), the ATF temp was still in the 80's F!! It took at least 10 more minutes of idling to get the ATF up to 122, and at that point the engine coolant temp was in the 150's. So you cannot go by the blue light on the dash. It's not even close.

After the ATF got to 122, I checked the dipstick, and it was just a hair above the lower line. We'll see how much I get to drain out. Also I will be getting a Blackstone fluid analysis of the fluid that comes out of the initial drain.

 

[PatrickGSR94]

Just had a thought: if people are checking it when the blue light goes off, then the ATF is still much colder than spec for checking, and perhaps that's why people are thinking that Mazda underfills the ATF from the factory? Because it should read lower when it's cold, right?

 

[edmaz]

Just had a thought: if people are checking it when the blue light goes off, then the ATF is still much colder than spec for checking, and perhaps that's why people are thinking that Mazda underfills the ATF from the factory? Because it should read lower when it's cold, right?

Yes, I believe that's definitely correct. And I've also observed readings similar to the ones in your prior post. I'll also add that, after watching the readings on multiple days, the difference between coolant and ATF temps varies quite a bit, depending both on ambient temp, and also if the start was completely cold or the vehicle had been running some number of hours previously.

IMO if owners are checking ATF level when the blue light goes off, or the OBD coolant temp is at 122F, then they are overfilling the fluid if they fill to the upper mark. And, as I've posted previously, I believe that Mazda (or any other automaker) does not send vehicles from the factory with any fluid impactfully underfilled (or overfilled), except for very, very rare mistakes.

Others here have disagreed with this in the past, and may very well do so again. Of course everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, and I'm not going to argue with anyone about it. JMHO, FWIW.

 

[PatrickGSR94]

So I managed to drain ~3.2 to 3.25 quarts out. I put 3.5 qts new fluid in, then started the car and waited for ATF temp to reach 122 again. Checked the level and it looked a bit low this time, so I added about 4 more ounces of fluid. Since I plan to drain and refill 2 more times, I don’t think it’s critical to get it to the exact level.

I did forget to move the shifter through the gears during this process. I need to run to the store in a minute so that will serve to get the gearbox shifting through all gears.

I also got a sample to send to Blackstone, and I will be draining and filling again after a couple of weeks or so.

Is it okay to leave the under tray off during this time so I don’t have to remove it all the next 2 times? I know on Miatas that the under tray splash shield can affect air flow through the radiator.

 

[concept]

I doubt that it would make a huge difference unless you are climbing a mountain at high speed during the Summer. Just keep an eye on your coolant temps.

By the way, oils in general take much longer to warm up compared to engine coolant. When I had my 2001 Corvette, I would leave the digital display in the dash set to oil temperature and I could clearly see that it tool a while longer to get up to operating temps compared to the coolant.

 

[yrwei52]

well I'm embarrassed to say that I'm just now getting around to doing this, despite purchasing 12 quarts of ATF FZ back in March 2019 when the car only had ~84K miles. Life got in the way, I bought a NB1 Miata in July 2019, and that car has had several projects since then. Now the CX-5 is just about to hit 113K miles.

So now it's underway as I type this. I just let the car warm up to verify the fluid level. Used an Autel BT OBD2 dongle, and its app on my phone, and checked it when the ATF temp reported 122 deg.

Something to note, when the engine coolant temp was above 130 (blue light off), the ATF temp was still in the 80's F!! It took at least 10 more minutes of idling to get the ATF up to 122, and at that point the engine coolant temp was in the 150's. So you cannot go by the blue light on the dash. It's not even close.

After the ATF got to 122, I checked the dipstick, and it was just a hair above the lower line. We'll see how much I get to drain out. Also I will be getting a Blackstone fluid analysis of the fluid that comes out of the initial drain.

I was wondering what happened to your ATF change since you mentioned it a while ago.

And when you say “it was just a hair above the lower line”, what is the “lower line” on the ATF dipstick? There’s no “lower line” on the dipstick, only the “marker”. If your factory ATF level is lower than the “marker” at 122°F, your factory ATF is under-filled.

 

[yrwei52]

Just had a thought: if people are checking it when the blue light goes off, then the ATF is still much colder than spec for checking, and perhaps that's why people are thinking that Mazda underfills the ATF from the factory? Because it should read lower when it's cold, right?

You just answered your question by yourself. You drained 3.2 ~ 3.25 quarts of factory ATF, but you have to put back 3.5 quarts + 4 fl oz without shifting gears which may need even more ATF after that. Your factory ATF is under-filled at least 0.375 quarts.

So I managed to drain ~3.2 to 3.25 quarts out. I put 3.5 qts new fluid in, then started the car and waited for ATF temp to reach 122 again. Checked the level and it looked a bit low this time, so I added about 4 more ounces of fluid. Since I plan to drain and refill 2 more times, I don’t think it’s critical to get it to the exact level.

I did forget to move the shifter through the gears during this process. I need to run to the store in a minute so that will serve to get the gearbox shifting through all gears.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ Is it okay to leave the under tray off during this time so I don’t have to remove it all the next 2 times? I know on Miatas that the under tray splash shield can affect air flow through the radiator.

Like concept said, you should be fine without belly pan installed. I would leave it off when I do multiple ATF drain-and-fills.

Do you plan to replace the ATF filter cartridge? If you do, may be you should do it at the second ATF drain-and-fill like Digbicks1234 suggested in another thread to prevent the accidental leakage issue with new pan sealant. And how did you handle the air box so that you can leave the engine idling and have the space to take the ATF measurement?

2016.5 CX-5 Transmission fluid change questions