Winter is here and my CX-5 turbo is now a 2.0L!

No, I didn't set anything vehicle specific in Torque. Maybe some OBD Bluetooth adapters only read certain sensors? And thanks, I'll try that for the graph, though I use libreoffice rather than Microsoft office. Should be similar.
And the first graph was wide open throttle, I know it doesn't go up to 100, but I had the pedal pushed past the detent. There are 5 or 6 sensors related to throttle/accelerator.
Unfortunately, while tomorrow is supposed to be cold, it's snowing at the moment. Not sure if it'll be cleaned up in time.
 
NathanH said:
No, I didn't set anything vehicle specific in Torque. Maybe some OBD Bluetooth adapters only read certain sensors? And thanks, I'll try that for the graph, though I use libreoffice rather than Microsoft office. Should be similar.
And the first graph was wide open throttle, I know it doesn't go up to 100, but I had the pedal pushed past the detent. There are 5 or 6 sensors related to throttle/accelerator.
Unfortunately, while tomorrow is supposed to be cold, it's snowing at the moment. Not sure if it'll be cleaned up in time.
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Thanks.

I'll have to look at my TorquePro app again.

My reader is a higher-end one...ScanTool. It should read everything that's available. I've said before I also grabbed the ScanTool app, and they offer an extra-cost add-on for Mazda-specific PIDs. They're still futzing with the 2019 PIDs.
 
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Which throttle position did you log?

Do you have PID Throttle Position (Manifold) as an option? That should be throttle blade position on the intake.
 
I'm a believer after driving a 2019 Sig today.
Temp was ~8F.

I went out of my way to get there today since the next time I could test drive one will probably be 25F or higher (according to 10 day forecast).

Salesman said to get on it entering the freeway and it struggled through 1st and 2nd gears.
I think when it hit 3rd gear around 60mph, it felt like it started pulling harder.

I tried it again after driving it for about 3-4 miles on various roads. 1st gear felt the same, about 1/2 way though 2nd it felt like it picked up a little bit, but then I had to let off so I didn't get to run it out.

Being in MN, we definitely get our share of cold days in the winter and I don't know if I could deal with the fact that I may not have the power when I want/need it.

I'm going to forward this thread to my salesman so he hopefully understands my comments when I e-mail him.
 
Hey, so I finally experienced this issue. It was below 10 degrees and I punched it to see how it responded. It was very obvious, as others have stated. The other days when it was below 20, this did not happen. Those days the car was garage kept and I was on my way out. This time my wife was waiting for me and was sitting for about 15 minutes. See, I didn't need to record a 0-60 run to notice it like some have insisted I do. :)

What I observed was not a total loss of turbo at all times, only at WOT. Very strange, but I'm glad to have joined the club!
 
Odrapnew said:
Being in MN, we definitely get our share of cold days in the winter and I don't know if I could deal with the fact that I may not have the power when I want/need it.
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Yup. Not having the power that you're accustomed to can be downright dangerous in certain situations.
 
Sig cx-5 said:
Hey, so I finally experienced this issue. It was below 10 degrees and I punched it to see how it responded. It was very obvious, as others have stated. The other days when it was below 20, this did not happen. Those days the car was garage kept and I was on my way out. This time my wife was waiting for me and was sitting for about 15 minutes. See, I didn't need to record a 0-60 run to notice it like some have insisted I do. :)

What I observed was not a total loss of turbo at all times, only at WOT. Very strange, but I'm glad to have joined the club!
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It's gonna get down to 15° here Friday night, and I have somewhere to be early Saturday AM. I'm curious what I'll experience. I may not post it...I'll just sit here and sob. Or I may type angry emails to the Mother Ship.
 
Odrapnew said:
Salesman said to get on it entering the freeway and it struggled through 1st and 2nd gears.
I think when it hit 3rd gear around 60mph, it felt like it started pulling harder.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the tune is pulling boost to maintain traction in 1st and 2nd gear. I mean you did say you were going WOT in 1st and 2nd gear at 8F. They did a similar thing with the Gen2 Mazdaspeed3s, but that was because it was FWD and made 280 ft-lb of torque easily, not because it was cold outside.

Odrapnew said:
I tried it again after driving it for about 3-4 miles on various roads. 1st gear felt the same, about 1/2 way though 2nd it felt like it picked up a little bit, but then I had to let off so I didn't get to run it out.
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Now I wonder if it was the ECU protecting the engine because it wasn't fully warmed up yet.

Do any Mazda6 2.5T owners experience this? It looks like Mazda views the CX-5 as a family car and was a little overzealous in making sure no one loses traction while driving it.
 
finch204 said:
Sounds like the tune is pulling boost to maintain traction in 1st and 2nd gear. I mean you did say you were going WOT in 1st and 2nd gear at 8F. They did a similar thing with the Gen2 Mazdaspeed3s, but that was because it was FWD and made 280 ft-lb of torque easily, not because it was cold outside.


Now I wonder if it was the ECU protecting the engine because it wasn't fully warmed up yet.

Do any Mazda6 2.5T owners experience this? It looks like Mazda views the CX-5 as a family car and was a little overzealous in making sure no one loses traction while driving it.
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I'd say this was way beyond preventing wheel spin. It was gutless. Not sure how else to explain it, but it was well below traction limits.

It was fully warmed. When I got into it after arriving at the dealer, it was already ~130-140F before we even drove out of the parking spot.

Another argument: think of the difference between 0-60 time and 60-0 time. If you romp on the brakes at 0F, dry pavement, does your distance increase to 300-400 ft? I doubt it, so the acceleration is nowhere near traction limits.

As a very (very) rough estimate, 0-60 in 6 seconds takes about 250ft.
60-0 in 3 seconds takes 132ft.
Does it really make sense that the power cut is due to 'potential' traction issue?
 
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Odrapnew said:
I'd say this was way beyond preventing wheel spin. It was gutless. Not sure how else to explain it, but it was well below traction limits.

It was fully warmed. When I got into it after arriving at the dealer, it was already ~130-140F before we even drove out of the parking spot.

Another argument: think of the difference between 0-60 time and 60-0 time. If you romp on the brakes at 0F, dry pavement, does your distance increase to 300-400 ft? I doubt it, so the acceleration is nowhere near t

As a very (very) rough estimate, 0-60 in 6 seconds takes about 250ft.
60-0 in 3 seconds takes 132ft.
Does it really make sense that the power cut is due to 'potential' traction issue?
Click to expand...

I really don’t think it is. You can get ito way more trouble at 32*f(hell even warm temps) with wet roads than you can at -5*f and dry roads. It just isn’t logical. It has to be to protect the engine. If it was some advanced safety feature, Mazda would speak to it.
 
For those that can consistently replicate this issue, try manual mode and punching it at 2k to about 3k in 1st-4th and see if the pull in 4th is almost “normal” feeling.

It was -7*f this morning and I couldn’t even break the front wheels loose in 1st or 2nd on a dirt road. However, 4th seemed to put me back in the seat. It might just be be initial pull and it was going to drop off like the other gears if I went fast enough. I didnt have enough road to test winding it out in 4th.
 
Avoidin Deer said:
It's gonna get down to 15° here Friday night, and I have somewhere to be early Saturday AM. I'm curious what I'll experience. I may not post it...I'll just sit here and sob. Or I may type angry emails to the Mother Ship.
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Keep us updated.
I'm going to see about driving a GTR and a different Sig today. Temps are suppose to peak about 15F, so I may or may not experience it.

One other thought, has anyone who experienced this tried to do a brisk throttle push vs. stomp? Gradually go to WOT. Or, on the freeway, does it do it? What I noticed was a brief surge of power when it hit 3rd gear, but couldn't run it out. I would also think you'd notice it when doing 6th gear freeway acceleration (at edge of downshift or torque converter unlocking).


2001birdowner said:
I really don’t think it is. You can get ito way more trouble at 32*f(hell even warm temps) with wet roads than you can at -5*f and dry roads. It just isn’t logical. It has to be to protect the engine. If it was some advanced safety feature, Mazda would speak to it.
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I agree. With all this fancy technology these days, I would think they could reduce boost slightly in cold temps and still maintain power and durability.

My '14 Explorer will range from ~8.5psi (this morning @ -10F) to ~12psi (optimum) and still feel like the same power output.
 
2001birdowner said:
I really don’t think it is. You can get ito way more trouble at 32*f(hell even warm temps) with wet roads than you can at -5*f and dry roads. It just isn’t logical. It has to be to protect the engine. If it was some advanced safety feature, Mazda would speak to it.
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I said the same thing.

A light mist causes roads to be horribly slick. They have rain sensors for the windshield wipers. Maximum safety would require that they tie those sensors into the Turbo Repression Technology long before claiming that Cold=Slick.

It just makes no sense.

I lean more towards the theory that they cut it back to protect the engine due to denser cold air.
 
Two thoughts to share for those whose theory is that this behavior is intended as a traction limiting measure:

1) The behavior is progressive with temperature. Many of you have never experienced this at severe temps such as -10F or -20F. I have. At these temps the vehicle feels broken, there is a more than 50-60 percent loss of power and it feels like the car is in limp home mode. If the goal was to ensure traction in cold weather there would be no need to keep pulling more and more power. It's not like ice is MORE slippery at -20F than it is at 20F (in fact its slightly the opposite).

2) The behavior, at least in my personal experience, mostly or completely goes away if you run the car long enough for the oil temperature (not the thermostat temp which rises much faster) to completely stabilize. When it is very cold it can take upwards of half an hour at cruising speeds, but the lost power will mostly return. If the intention was to aid traction the computer would not give the power back after the vehicle has been operating for a long enough period of time.

All the evidence points to this behavior being the same engine protection schemes that all manfacturers use to make sure an owner can't subject the vehicle to operating conditions that are well outside of what would be considered normal, such as flooring the throttle when the engine is cold and it's 20 below zero outside. It makes sense to put some protections in place to limit what can happen this situation. The only difference is Mazda's protection schemes are just more aggressive than what most other manufacturers seem to use.

That's how I interpret the data everybody has presented over the past year. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.
 
CatsPaw said:
2) The behavior, at least in my personal experience, mostly or completely goes away if you run the car long enough for the oil temperature (not the thermostat temp which rises much faster) to completely stabilize. When it is very cold it can take upwards of half an hour at cruising speeds, but the lost power will mostly return.
Click to expand...

That sounds as though it's more to protect the turbo itself than it is to protect the engine.

Are there oil temp sensors on these cars that an OBD2 reader could see? I know that there's a transmission temp sensor, but not many OBD2 reader software programs have that PID.
 
Yes there are oil sensors that can be read. But this morning was probably the last cold day I'll get and I didn't log that sensor.
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