Blose improvement for cheap $

[6262MS3]

Well, I admittedly hate the bose system in our cars. Mainly the muddy mid-bass, distorted mids and lifeless treble. But I'm pretty broke right now so a proper system is not in the cards for awhile. From info on this forum and diyma I tried out a plan that so far has only cost me $50 ($30 of which was shipping to Canada). I know fourthmeal and other audiophiles will scoff but it's all I can afford at the moment. Here's what I've done to address my biggest beefs.

Muddiness: Others have sound deadened the doors and noticed a huge improvement in mid-bass clarity, but sound-deadening costs money, even raamat. I faded the system to the front by 5 and noticed an improvement, still muddy but not nearly as bad with the rear mids turned down. It's survivable now and a free "mod". Lightly tapping the mid while it's in the door reveals a very hollow, resonant sound, so when I have more coin deadening is certainly on the list.

Treble: On having a look at the bose tweeters I found that they have cheap plastic domes, which is possibly the worst sounding tweeter material known to man. They also have a tiny 4.7 microfarad cap on them for a crossover, which on a 4-ohm tweet results in around 8.5khz. This means the mid has to do most of the work and the tweets are just there to fill things in a bit. After reading some diyma reviews I bought these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-035
Dirt cheap, but they have a soft dome and apparently sound way better than $12 would suggest. With a couple of wraps of electrical tape around the body they are a perfect press-fit in the factory hole. I bought some 10 microfarad caps for a roughly 4khz high-pass. HUGE improvement! Cymbals sound like cymbals now, and the lower x-over makes the upper mid-range sound cleaner and more natural. Stock I had the treble at +3 to get any crispness, now it's flat and balances with the mids pretty well. On the down side 4khz with a 6db slope is pushing them a bit, if I really crank it they get a little spitty but for the low power level of the bose amp it's not too bad.

Distorty mids: WTF? As other members have stated there is no x-over at all on the mids, the poor things are trying to play the full audio range and they just can't. I bought some 0.10 millihenry inductors for the front mids, low-passing them around 3.1khz (available inductor ratings with a 2ohm mid doesn't leave many options). This really cleaned up the mids, there's a bigger gap than I'd like with the tweet x-over but at a 6db slope it blends pretty well. After doing everything to one side I opened the doors and ran back and forth to compare my ghetto rig to stock: The ghetto mid was only playing bass and mid-range decently cleanly, the stock mid was very thrashy in comparison as it tried to play the upper-mid/lower treble. The ghetto tweet filled-in the upper-mids and up nicely and sounded surprisingly natural, the stock tweet was only playing treble quietly and sounded like a good tweet with a dirty sock covering it. When I have more time I'll finish the other side, let the tweets loosen-up and give a more detailed sound review.

Sorry for the stoopid long post but I'm pretty happy with how this is turning out and wanted to share with everyone. My next project is a budget sub setup that doesn't take up any space and hardly costs anything. I'm toying with the thought of this in-place of the bose "sub":
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=18290
(not great, but at least it's an 8") but I'm saving up and haven't really decided on what to do, any ideas?

 

[DrZoidberg]

I am interested to hear what others will have to say. Let me know if you notice anything as the speaker settle in. I love the cheap mods that make a big difference. Way to go!

 

[naddie]

That's an awesome find! Does it apply to the standard non-Bose model in the MS3 Sport? I am in the same boat where I don't want to buy amps. Buying those cheap tweeters and some capacitors/inductors seem like the ideal route for me.

For those who are aren't familiar with capacitors and inductors, do you have links to where we can purchase the ones you have? Maybe photos of how you installed them? Maybe take some pics for the other side's install.

Thanks!

 

[6262MS3]

I'm not too familiar with the non-Bose, in Canada we get only one trim-level and the Bose is standard. As long as you know the impedances of the factory speakers you can build a crossover for them.

Here's a cross-over calculator page that I used to pick my values, just plugged in a 2-ohm woofer with a 4-ohm tweeter on the 6 db-octave calculator:
http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html#first

These are the capacitors I bought for the tweeter high-pass:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-428

These are the inductors for the woofer low-pass:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=255-020&DID=7

When I have time to do the other side I'll take some pics, it's a bit ghetto splicing them into the factory wiring but it works. It's weird only having the one side done, the new tweet is way more sensitive and raises the stage height so everything sounds lop-sided.

 

[naddie]

I'll be rooting for ya. We are the minority who don't want to spend a lot on their sound system, lol.

I like the small Boss sub idea, but after looking at the manual in PDF format, I don't think I like the idea of splicing the speaker wires for the inputs, as well as running a direct wire from the battery into the cabin. Not for a while at least. I want to enjoy my new STOCK car for a little longer before I molest it.

 

[Breezy]

subscribe!
Some pics would be most appreciated!

 

[naddie]

So how's the project going? Are you still rolling with one side done? lol

It's probably taking a bit longer when you're documenting the procedure, huh? The whole MS3 community will thank you though. Keep us update, plz!

 

[6262MS3]

Funny that you bring this up, I finally got around to finishing the passenger side last night!
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=127962
Click image for larger version Name: P3310013.JPG Views: 0 Size: 1.67 MB ID: [ARG:4 UNDEFINED]
Here's the dayton tweet on the left and the bose tweet on the right. I put my cel in the pic for a size reference.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=127963
Click image for larger version Name: P3310015.JPG Views: 0 Size: 1.56 MB ID: [ARG:4 UNDEFINED]
This was the only place I had room to put the cap for the tweeter x-over. In hindsight I should have bought a lower power rating cap as these are huge and probably overkill for what I'm using them for. I normally prefer soldering connections but since this was an experiment and will eventually be replaced anyway I used quick n' easy crimp connectors. After this pic I wrapped it all in electrical tape to protect the connections and support the weight of the cap.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=127966
Click image for larger version Name: P3310016.JPG Views: 0 Size: 1.31 MB ID: [ARG:4 UNDEFINED]
The inductor for the woofer x-over. Taped it up as well afterwards, not the way I like doing things normally but it can be returned to stock quickly if needed and like I said, this will all get replaced within a year (hopefully).
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=127967
Click image for larger version Name: P3310019.JPG Views: 0 Size: 1.27 MB ID: [ARG:4 UNDEFINED]
Dayton tweet in the factory hole. 2.5 wraps of electrical tape around the tweet body makes a solid press-fit. If anyone's wondering this is as big of a tweet as you're going to fit in the factory hole, there's just not much room. Notice I had to carefully bend the terminals as there's not enough depth to clear the connectors if they're straight back.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=127968
Click image for larger version Name: P3310020.JPG Views: 0 Size: 1.19 MB ID: [ARG:4 UNDEFINED]
What the dayton tweet looks like from the front, nice and stock-looking.

Early review: I keep telling myself to be patient as people have noted these tweets take some time to mellow-out. Right now they're pretty bright, far more detailed than most soft-domes I've heard. I've had to put the treble at -1, crazy considering stock I had to put it at +3 to get any treble. These tweets have really brought music to life again, the bowing noise of a cello, the picking noise of a certain bass or acoustic guitar, subtle reverb on a female vocal, the sizzle of a crash cymbal; It's all of these little details in music that I love and I'm hearing them again, it really puts a smile on my face! Night and day improvement over stock, if they mellow a bit I'd say they're damn-near perfect! For $12!! They're better than most "budget" car tweets I've heard. Stage height has also been raised, though there is more localization between the tweet and mid than before. The inductors have made the mids alot more liveable, midrange is way cleaner, distortion is greatly reduced and I can push the stereo a few more notches without bothering my ears. Mid-bass seems a bit cleaner as well. Still not the most detailed mids but the tweets partially make up for it. So far I'm really happy with this little project, it's not going to win any SQ competitions but I actually enjoy listening to music in my car again, which will keep me sane until I can afford a full-blown system.

 

[naddie]

Awesome writeup, 6262MS2!

Looks pretty easy to do. The only question I have is the capacitor install. It looks like you put it in parallel to the wire instead of in series. Not sure if that's just the way it looked in the picture, of if you really did it that way.

  |---)|----|
--|---------|-------<| )) (speaker)
(Parallel)

I thought it was suppose to be in series like this:

-----)|-------------<|)) (speaker)
(Series)

Can you clarify, please? Thanks!

Now if I can work up the courage to tear off my panels to get to the speakers/wires....

 

[6262MS3]

It's in series, just the angle of the pic looks weird.

 

[Breezy]

Parts on ordered and I am anxious to try this! Thanks for all the work you did!

 

[naddie]

I want to wait until Mazda replaces or fixes the 2008.5 MP3/CD issues first otherwise they may say I invalidated my warantee if they find this mod and I won't get fixed. You know... that 34-35 volume level issue.

 

[Breezy]

There's a volume issue with the 08.5s?

 

[ihadacivicsi]

Some cheap 5x7 speakers

 

[Abaddon]

Some cheap 5x7 speakers

Fail!

 

[naddie]

Some cheap 5x7 speakers

They seem to have good reviews, but if I were to replace my main speakers, I'd go for something higher end.

Those may be a great buy for a Ford Escort though.

 

[Excido]

Some cheap 5x7 speakers

Has anyone tried these yet? I'd like to confirm if they fit well.

BTW, I'm very into DIY home audio, and it's important that you don't underestimate the low cost speakers. More expensive isn't always better, and some of the those speakers for $5-15 will beat speakers $50-100 hands down.

 

[naddie]

Has anyone tried these yet? I'd like to confirm if they fit well.

BTW, I'm very into DIY home audio, and it's important that you don't underestimate the low cost speakers. More expensive isn't always better, and some of the those speakers for $5-15 will beat speakers $50-100 hands down.

They are inexpensive enough to just try out. If you aren't satisfied with them, I guess you can always use them for another project.

After all, if the tweeters they sell sounds good, I wouldn't see why not the 5x7" speakers.

I'm sure there are a lot of people like me who don't want a competition audio set up. Just something better than stock. I'm just surprised at how horrible the stock sound is considering it's a $22-24k car.

 

[6262MS3]

Those plate speakers could be half-decent but there are 2 things that would stop me from trying them on my car.

1: Bose systems use 2 ohm mids, a 4 ohm speaker like that would drop the power on an already low-powered system. On a non-bose this probably wouldn't be an issue, but I don't know the impedance of the non-bose mids. Anyone?

2: Our door panel design sucks for a co-axial or plate speaker setup. The speaker grilles angle downwards and pretty much blocks the speaker from the near-side listener. Treble is very directional so you would probably get very little treble from the driver's side.

Another thought for non-bose peoples, with only a 5" speaker in that plate and rated to 100hz the bass from these will be non-existent. Unless you have a sub I would go for something else.

 

[Excido]

2: Our door panel design sucks for a co-axial or plate speaker setup. The speaker grilles angle downwards and pretty much blocks the speaker from the near-side listener. Treble is very directional so you would probably get very little treble from the driver's side.

Hmmm, that was my main worry. I can live with only a little bass, as long as it's not boomy (which the stock system is). The boomy sound really gets to me. As long as it's a nice roll off, even at 100Hz, I'm happy. I'll definitely replace the tweeter like mentioned before since I know those tweeters are very good for their price (lot's of home audio projects use them). If I end up doing anything I'll let you guys know.