Im going to look at them tomorrow. They have that charcoal color out now and i loooove that color. Plus i think id rather have leather, i like it so much more than cloth. And you can make those things quite quick, also theres a huge aftermarket for them. And i HATE the tamperproof turbo idea from mazda, plus the engine cant hold as much as the 1.8. Im thinking the MSP might be a bit too boy racerish for me, though i will test both before i make my decesion.
Weighing my options..., Jetta 1.8T vs. MSP
- Thread starter MazdaNeal
- Start date
The tamper proof thing is to keep you from modifying the boost pressure. You can modify to your hearts content, but don't expect to get warratny work done on your motor after you blow it. The same applys to the 1.8T. If they suspect you have upped the boost, then they will void your warranty.
The other issue is that within 6 mo. Mazdaspeed will bring its aftermarket protege line to market and I am sure an increase in boost can be had and still keep your factor warranty.
You will have this warranty issue problem no matter what car you buy that has forced induction. If a GTP has a smaller pulley and they take it in the shop with that pulley, they just voided their factory warranty. Tis the story.....
The other issue is that within 6 mo. Mazdaspeed will bring its aftermarket protege line to market and I am sure an increase in boost can be had and still keep your factor warranty.
You will have this warranty issue problem no matter what car you buy that has forced induction. If a GTP has a smaller pulley and they take it in the shop with that pulley, they just voided their factory warranty. Tis the story.....
i dont care about upping boost cause i know that 2.0 motor cant handle much, That engine came in the base and se probes so it has been around for awhile. I am just thinking the jetta has more petential and is a nicer car overall. I actually was going to buy a jetta last spring but didnt cause i was going to wait for 2003 cars and options to come out.
Well, I gotta tell you, I love both cars. The take off on teh 1.8T is monstrous. Just test drive both cars (and I mean good, long test drive, not around the block) and see what you think. The MSP outhandles the 1.8T, and I feel comes with far more amenities.
It is closer to a true race car than the 1.8T
On the flip side, the 1.8T is a joy to drive, I've driven one several times.
I think it will come down to personal preference. I think VW's are some of the ugliest cars out there, and love the MSP's lines. I like dragging, but think that sliding through a corner with no skid and little body roll is so much sexier than just peeling out, so again I lean to the MSP, which with comparable HP would smoke even its very expensive competition on a road course.
The ride in the VW is a little smoother.
I actually love the interior layouts of VW's, very "sensible" everything is where it should be, you reach and it's there.
Start looking at financing, lease terms, etc, that might be the big deciding factor.
It is closer to a true race car than the 1.8T
On the flip side, the 1.8T is a joy to drive, I've driven one several times.
I think it will come down to personal preference. I think VW's are some of the ugliest cars out there, and love the MSP's lines. I like dragging, but think that sliding through a corner with no skid and little body roll is so much sexier than just peeling out, so again I lean to the MSP, which with comparable HP would smoke even its very expensive competition on a road course.
The ride in the VW is a little smoother.
I actually love the interior layouts of VW's, very "sensible" everything is where it should be, you reach and it's there.
Start looking at financing, lease terms, etc, that might be the big deciding factor.
RuggedMazda
Member
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- 03 MazdaSpeed, 93 Supra TT RC toy.
Toooooo many on the road.....
I had 2000 Jetta 2.0, it was my first 5spd. I did love that car,
but every were I went I saw one. Young peolpe, old, everyone
& there mother had one & now its even worse.
Besides the fact that the MSP looks, handles, performs better IMOI, I wont have to see everyone & there mother driving it.
I've siad this before & I'll definitely say it again, theres no other car out know that can offer the exclusivity that the MSP bring to the table.
I had 2000 Jetta 2.0, it was my first 5spd. I did love that car,
but every were I went I saw one. Young peolpe, old, everyone
& there mother had one & now its even worse.
Besides the fact that the MSP looks, handles, performs better IMOI, I wont have to see everyone & there mother driving it.
I've siad this before & I'll definitely say it again, theres no other car out know that can offer the exclusivity that the MSP bring to the table.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
Consider this then - stock, a manager at my old job with his Jetta turbo had me beat. Turboed = he was smoked. If I can smoke a Jetta turbo with turbo Protege5, I think we can make an educated guess as to whether or not the Mazdaspeed will be as fast or faster...
This and the fact that Volkswagens have had an inverse price/quality relationship in recent years. Yes they are still good cars, but the overall build quality has gone down (drivetrain, transmissions being big complaints) while price has skyrocketed. VWs are becoming pseudo-luxury cars, something which I think will hurt them down the line. The price is not one for a "people's car".
In the end it all rests on your preferences. Look at it this way, you will be one of the few who owns a Mazdaspeed Protege or you could be one of the countless middle class suburbanite yuppies who owns a Jetta. Not to insult middle class suburbanite yuppies now....
This and the fact that Volkswagens have had an inverse price/quality relationship in recent years. Yes they are still good cars, but the overall build quality has gone down (drivetrain, transmissions being big complaints) while price has skyrocketed. VWs are becoming pseudo-luxury cars, something which I think will hurt them down the line. The price is not one for a "people's car".
In the end it all rests on your preferences. Look at it this way, you will be one of the few who owns a Mazdaspeed Protege or you could be one of the countless middle class suburbanite yuppies who owns a Jetta. Not to insult middle class suburbanite yuppies now....
Captain KRM P5 said:Look at it this way, you will be one of the few who owns a Mazdaspeed Protege or you could be one of the countless middle class suburbanite yuppies who owns a Jetta. Not to insult middle class suburbanite yuppies now....
Err..., Um.., that would be me
I like a classy car. Hence my addiction to BMW M, i actually almost aquired a 99 M coupe with 28k this weekend but the damn thing just had to have california emissions on it. GRRRR I wanted that thing sooooo bad.I think im just going to have to drive them both, and i KNOW the MSP will handle better but im just going to have to see how much that means, also i like the fact that nobody else will have one.
Funny, The day I bought my car I test drove a Charcoal grey 5spd 1.8t jetta fully loaded. 2 things kept me from buying compared to the P5.
1. Price. They wanted $27 after all was said and done and were not willing to give me any deals. not take one dime off the car.
2. I hate t say this because I love VW's as anyone can tell from my posts on my corrado but I have to agree with the above statement on quality in the past few years. The prices have continues to rise and the quality has just been hit or miss.
True you can build the hell out of the 1.8t but like has been said buh bye warranty. I have seen a 400HP stock internal 1.8t GTI and WOW was that thing fast but he constantly had problems with it and the VW people just laughed when he would bring it in for service. We aren't talking motor work either these were little things like radio and interior stuff like seats. they kept telling him htat his entire warranty was voided by his modifications.
The other car I looked at was the WRX and I realy almost wish I would have waited and bought one but I love my P5 and so since they couldn't find one of the wagons in a 5 spd and since the P5 has the option of leather and a sunroof I bought the mazda. BTW Has anybody seen any of the COBB Motorsports WRXs that are running over 300HP and still have warranties. If I can find a good deal on one of those I may consider selling the P5. Well maybe.... have to be a really good deal though.
Oh yeah MazdaNEAL I hear ya on the M Coupe. that is one of my Fav ccars ever since I drove the M roadster when it first came out. I will own one someday along with a few other M cars.
1. Price. They wanted $27 after all was said and done and were not willing to give me any deals. not take one dime off the car.
2. I hate t say this because I love VW's as anyone can tell from my posts on my corrado but I have to agree with the above statement on quality in the past few years. The prices have continues to rise and the quality has just been hit or miss.
True you can build the hell out of the 1.8t but like has been said buh bye warranty. I have seen a 400HP stock internal 1.8t GTI and WOW was that thing fast but he constantly had problems with it and the VW people just laughed when he would bring it in for service. We aren't talking motor work either these were little things like radio and interior stuff like seats. they kept telling him htat his entire warranty was voided by his modifications.
The other car I looked at was the WRX and I realy almost wish I would have waited and bought one but I love my P5 and so since they couldn't find one of the wagons in a 5 spd and since the P5 has the option of leather and a sunroof I bought the mazda. BTW Has anybody seen any of the COBB Motorsports WRXs that are running over 300HP and still have warranties. If I can find a good deal on one of those I may consider selling the P5. Well maybe.... have to be a really good deal though.
Oh yeah MazdaNEAL I hear ya on the M Coupe. that is one of my Fav ccars ever since I drove the M roadster when it first came out. I will own one someday along with a few other M cars.
"pseudo-luxury" describes them perfectly. They've taken off in popularity with a certain segment of the population (midde- to upper-middle class white americans) who cant seem to stop buying VW products. And as the people who buy them become more affluent (and car companies do track that), they inflate the price.Captain KRM P5 said:
Same thing happened with cars like the ford focus and a bunch of pontiacs. Granted the ford is more reliable than a hyundai elantra, but their prices went up because they could. Ford has production costs lower than everyone else, for all intensive purposes.
VW is by far the best example, though.
Mazda on the other hand is throwing us cars with loads of features, excellent handling, great stereo, and TURBO for 22k in an effort to grab some part of the market. Right now, Mazdas are some of the best buys on the market.
MMMatHeart
Member
y'know, I drove the 1.8t jetta and golf. I was not impressed. The Jetta was much worse than the golf. Dunno why, everything is almost the same. Here are the problems: Suspension is s***, way too much lag on the turbo and the extremely low compressioned 1.8, also its heavy. Although, I was very impressed once the turbo kicked in and knocked me on my ass. Also, its clutch was very vague. Couldn't get a good feel in its engagement point. So, that's a hell of a lot to pay for just the engine, if you ask me. The MSP is the most complete car out there. You can't do too much more with the suspension. Brales are good. Alot of things have been done to handle more power. So, yeah, the tamper proof is a b****, but I'll put up with it. I don't have enough money to do those kinda huge improvements without doing it right (ie. strengthening internals and lowering compression ratio before huge boost) anyway. The exhaust, however is a great place to start. If you're unlike me and have a vast amount of money, then yeah, go buy the 1.8 and sink some money into it to make it handle and brake as well as the msp. Me, I'll stay right here the bandito completo.
I am on my third jetta now (GLI) and looking forward to switching up to the Mazda.
They vapor lock so bad in the heat, they really bog down in anything over 90 degrees and have no pickup power. Don't try to take anyone off the light!
I can't bypass the factory airbox on mine because it has the fuel distributer built into it. neuspeed or anybody else doesn't even make anything for a cold air intake for it.
VW really needs to work on their air induction systems. I have had A2 and A3 styles, but my roommate has an A4 VR6 and has similar problems, though I think it is a little better then mine and he should be able to put a cold air intake on it to further improve it. The car was fine when I was living in Maine, but not down here in Georgia.
We won't even talk about the wiring in them... lets just say I drive around with a fire extingisher in the car at all times! My roommates old desel jetta would just sparatically shoot smoke out of the steering wheel. It was like a freak show at the circus.
I don't exactly have stock tires or suspension on my jetta and the stock Pro5 I rented this past summer would certainly give my jetta a run for it's money in the handling dept.
Both cars have 4 wheel disc brakes, but after driving the Pro5 you would think mine had 4 wheel drum!
I am certainly looking forward to saying bye bye jetta, and hello mazdaspeed... It just can't come fast enough for me!
They vapor lock so bad in the heat, they really bog down in anything over 90 degrees and have no pickup power. Don't try to take anyone off the light!
I can't bypass the factory airbox on mine because it has the fuel distributer built into it. neuspeed or anybody else doesn't even make anything for a cold air intake for it.
VW really needs to work on their air induction systems. I have had A2 and A3 styles, but my roommate has an A4 VR6 and has similar problems, though I think it is a little better then mine and he should be able to put a cold air intake on it to further improve it. The car was fine when I was living in Maine, but not down here in Georgia.
We won't even talk about the wiring in them... lets just say I drive around with a fire extingisher in the car at all times! My roommates old desel jetta would just sparatically shoot smoke out of the steering wheel. It was like a freak show at the circus.
I don't exactly have stock tires or suspension on my jetta and the stock Pro5 I rented this past summer would certainly give my jetta a run for it's money in the handling dept.
Both cars have 4 wheel disc brakes, but after driving the Pro5 you would think mine had 4 wheel drum!
I am certainly looking forward to saying bye bye jetta, and hello mazdaspeed... It just can't come fast enough for me!
well that sums it up for me. Looks like im going with the mazdaspeed. Im just checking everything that i could get to make sure that i am getting the best for my money and will be totally heppy with my purchase, looks like i should be. And looks like i may be able to get the msp in grey! Although i think im going to be origional and get the orange NOW and not wait another 3 months for the grey to come out.
holey s***. this has got to be the most uninformed post , on any message board, in the history of time.
i own a 1.8t jetta. 2001, stock came with 150hp (which is now sporting an APR chip)... i've also driven the p5, and let me tell you, if your manager knew how to drive, he would walk all over you. the p5 engine is ass. plain and simple, i really liked the rest of the car, but hated the engine. maybe your manager had a TDI, which is a 1.9l turbo diesel sporting ~90hp stock.
my 18t on the other hand, i love the engine, but hate the chasis for what i want to do. not because, "these cars vaporlock!" or, "the wiring catches on fire!" but because stock they do handle like ass. which is the main reason i've put money down on the mazdaspeed.
not that it really matters, but the 1.8t engine really is better than the mazdaspeed seems to be. 400hp on stock internals without NOS (and that's just on US cars) isn't too shabby. a 500 dollar chip bumps the AWW engine code (which has a 9.3:1 compression ratio by the way, so none of this, "the CR is to low" bulls***) up to around 190hp/240ftlbs at the crank. few guys have dynoed at 210 at the WHEELS with just chip/intake/exhaust. which is good for high 13's, low 14's at sea level. the fastest just chip/intake/exhaust 1.8t out there is running mid 13's on drag radials. most stock 1.8t's see peak boost of about 14psi at ~3000rpm. that's damn good as far as turbo lag goes, but it at the expense of top end
but power isn't everything. the handling stock does really suck. i'm not a big fan of the Drive-by-Wire system that all of the VW 1.8t's use (throttle lag because insted of using a throttle cable, there is a signal sent from the gas pedal to the ECU, which then opens up the throttle body). and that's why i'm getting the MSP. not because mazdaspeed has a superior engine, because i know it doesn't (it wouldn't suprise me if Mazda requested that calloway develop the kit to use mazda partsbin materials at all), but because I want handling, and an LSD.
sorry for the rant, just had to dispell the idea that the 1.8t is laggy, and that the electronics just spontaniously combust in the mk4's. because they dont.
i own a 1.8t jetta. 2001, stock came with 150hp (which is now sporting an APR chip)... i've also driven the p5, and let me tell you, if your manager knew how to drive, he would walk all over you. the p5 engine is ass. plain and simple, i really liked the rest of the car, but hated the engine. maybe your manager had a TDI, which is a 1.9l turbo diesel sporting ~90hp stock.
my 18t on the other hand, i love the engine, but hate the chasis for what i want to do. not because, "these cars vaporlock!" or, "the wiring catches on fire!" but because stock they do handle like ass. which is the main reason i've put money down on the mazdaspeed.
not that it really matters, but the 1.8t engine really is better than the mazdaspeed seems to be. 400hp on stock internals without NOS (and that's just on US cars) isn't too shabby. a 500 dollar chip bumps the AWW engine code (which has a 9.3:1 compression ratio by the way, so none of this, "the CR is to low" bulls***) up to around 190hp/240ftlbs at the crank. few guys have dynoed at 210 at the WHEELS with just chip/intake/exhaust. which is good for high 13's, low 14's at sea level. the fastest just chip/intake/exhaust 1.8t out there is running mid 13's on drag radials. most stock 1.8t's see peak boost of about 14psi at ~3000rpm. that's damn good as far as turbo lag goes, but it at the expense of top end
but power isn't everything. the handling stock does really suck. i'm not a big fan of the Drive-by-Wire system that all of the VW 1.8t's use (throttle lag because insted of using a throttle cable, there is a signal sent from the gas pedal to the ECU, which then opens up the throttle body). and that's why i'm getting the MSP. not because mazdaspeed has a superior engine, because i know it doesn't (it wouldn't suprise me if Mazda requested that calloway develop the kit to use mazda partsbin materials at all), but because I want handling, and an LSD.
sorry for the rant, just had to dispell the idea that the 1.8t is laggy, and that the electronics just spontaniously combust in the mk4's. because they dont.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
Go back and read my post. I said he beat me before I installed my turbo. I beat him after I installed my turbo. How the hell is that uninformed? Sorry if my post was a tad unclear there, but man I hate nothing more than to be told I don't know what I'm talking about.
For the record, the man knew very well how to drive. And yes, it was a 1.8t NOT some dog ass TDI.
