Im going synthetic, whats the best?
- Thread starter rabidus
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BrewMaster
Member
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- Truck!
there are more opinions on this than you can shake a stick at. this post is just my opinion and you are free to disregard everything I say. i don't know about this forum, but on www.f150online.com this question comes up weekly and there are peope that advocate a whole forum just for oil since it is so talked about.
quite honestly, there's no need for synthetic in an economy car. you're throwing your money away. but if you really want to do it, AMSOil is really the best oil out there. It ain't cheap, but it is the best. but it lasts many many more miles than any other oil.
I'm not sure if Mazda uses Motorcraft, but if so, 0W-20 is the way to go from Mobil1 when replacing 5W-20 oil. Just make sure if you go synthetic that you extend your time between oil changes and use a premium filter like a Mobil1 oil filter. otherwise you are really throwing away your cash.
quite honestly, there's no need for synthetic in an economy car. you're throwing your money away. but if you really want to do it, AMSOil is really the best oil out there. It ain't cheap, but it is the best. but it lasts many many more miles than any other oil.
I'm not sure if Mazda uses Motorcraft, but if so, 0W-20 is the way to go from Mobil1 when replacing 5W-20 oil. Just make sure if you go synthetic that you extend your time between oil changes and use a premium filter like a Mobil1 oil filter. otherwise you are really throwing away your cash.
I was in the same boat as you. I just got rid of my F-150 X-cab and bought a Mazda 3. I'm a vendor and I drive at least 2,500mi a month in my job. I get .31 cents a mile no matter what the vehicle is. The gas I saved in my Mazda 3 is $150 a month compared to my truck. Its like I got a raise.
So, why is synthetic oil wasting money in an economy car? I thought synthetic oil had much better lubricants than conventional oil. And we all know how much harder (RPM speaking) 4 cylinder cars are compared to V-8s so the extra revving can wear those pistons faster. Why not use synthetic oil to help combat that?
So, why is synthetic oil wasting money in an economy car? I thought synthetic oil had much better lubricants than conventional oil. And we all know how much harder (RPM speaking) 4 cylinder cars are compared to V-8s so the extra revving can wear those pistons faster. Why not use synthetic oil to help combat that?
I think it depends on how often you change the oil. If you consistently change the oil every 3000 miles, you can use almost any oil.
I have a 1988 Dodge with 240,000 miles. It has NEVER gone more than 3000 miles without an oil change and still today when I change the oil, it's so clean that I can barely read the dipstick. The old oil that comes out is so clean, it almost looks like you can still use it for something else.
So, if you use the most expensive oil every 3000 miles, it's almost a waste since it will still be in such good shape, you will literally be throwing away your money. With the best oil, you should be able to leave it in for longer (5000 - 7500 miles) between changes.
But, if you change it every 3000 miles, you can save money on the oil since even the cheapest stuff will still be in good shape.
I have a 1988 Dodge with 240,000 miles. It has NEVER gone more than 3000 miles without an oil change and still today when I change the oil, it's so clean that I can barely read the dipstick. The old oil that comes out is so clean, it almost looks like you can still use it for something else.
So, if you use the most expensive oil every 3000 miles, it's almost a waste since it will still be in such good shape, you will literally be throwing away your money. With the best oil, you should be able to leave it in for longer (5000 - 7500 miles) between changes.
But, if you change it every 3000 miles, you can save money on the oil since even the cheapest stuff will still be in good shape.
goldwing2000
Turd in the punch bowl
- :
- 2004 Mazda3s Hatch; 269,000 miles
Sethlan said:
Your dealership is full of idiots. Besides the fact that the car ships from the factory with semi-synthetic, it doesn't take 30,000 km to break in an engine.
With the thin piston rings that come on today's engines and the fact that most new engines are "hot-racked" from the factory, you shouldn't have to wait any longer than 5,000 miles (8,000 km) to have your engine fully broken in. In these cars, that would be your very first scheduled oil change. You can wait till your second if you want but there's no reason to wait for 30k.
Mobil 1 0W-20 all the way.....great results from Used Oil Analisys (both street and AutoX) and most testify to a 2-4 mpg increase....30K? damn thats a long wait! my last car I traded in didn't even reach 10,000 in the 2 years I owned it
thats one helluva break in period...
thats one helluva break in period...
Last edited:
willy65000
Member
You can't go wrong with Mobil 1 or probably any other synthetic for that matter. I'm just not sure it's worth the extra money. I just sold my 94 civic with 180k on the clock and the motor seems to run perfect after using Castrol GTX for the las 120k. I'm pretty sure the motor is going to out last the rest of the car. It doesn't even burn oil yet. This subject is being debated on just about every auto and motorcycle forum on the net as we speak and I think it just comes down to brand preference. Lab results are one thing and regular Castrol seems to do well in all of the tests, but does an engine really wear faster with one brand as apposed to another? Who knows. Just my opinion.
Bill
Bill
rodslinger
Member
Another thing to note that even though full synthetics do last longer, they don't prevent the accumulation of other contaminates in the oil. I'm talking about moisture, unburnt hydrocarbons from combustion, etc... If you manual wants you to change your oil every XXXX miles, then do it regardless of the oil type. Other than that you can pick up 5w20 Motorcraft semi-synthetic for under $2 a quart. Hell of a deal.
Used oil anaylasis will determine the amount of engine wear is done. And as stated before (Link to UOA down at this time i'll update later) UOA of people who used the car in autox events was told they could have gotten another 1000 miles out of the oil safely and to add that 1000 to their oil change interval (checking if it was the 3000 or 5000 change inerval). that was 0W-20. I found a lil of oil in my aem intake...not much is in the cetch can so I don't think I'll have too bad of a problem in missing oil like my last car....pcv would dump a quart into the intake mani per oil change interval.
carperformance3
Member
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- 2004 Mazda3 5 door
advantages of synthetic
I work in an express lube shop, and although I'm not a mechanic, I work under the hood of probably 3 -5 times as many cars in a day. Synthetic oil is without a doubt a better oil for your car. True, most of todays engines (made within the last 10 years), will easily go past 200,000 miles, or even 300,000 miles with good maintenance, thats on 3,000 mile intervals, especially conventional motor oil. Anything longer with that will start to get darker, even within the manufacturers recommended intervals. You must remember, about 1/2 a quart of oil stays in your engine when you change your oil and oil filter. That contaminates your new motor oil as soon as you start it your car up for the first time. So when it gets a little dirty, unless its like one exception, it starts to build a snowball effect. This doesn't necessarily mean your engine won't reach 300,000 miles, or that you'll even own it half that long. But just because the engine makes it that long doesn't mean it retains its original performance. Dirty oil creates more resistance and heat, and wear on an engine. Synthetic oil does not break down, it offers better properties in extreme temperatures. Have you ever opened the hood of your car after driving for a little while on a warm day? Its very hot. Todays engines run a lot warmer under the hood, although mazda took some major steps with the 3 to keep temperatures down. Synthetic oil helps control this. The bottom line is that with synthetic you will retain more horsepower for more years with your vehicle. It comes down to a matter of priorities. If you are spending the extra $500 for the 5-10 horsepower increasing exhaust, why not pay the extra $30 on oil changes to keep your horsepower at least what it was when it left the factory. Why do you think so many games are making oil changes part the modifications and parts of gameplay? Its important! If you read this entire novel, then thank you, and feel free to ask me maintenance questions, I'd be glad to try and help.
I work in an express lube shop, and although I'm not a mechanic, I work under the hood of probably 3 -5 times as many cars in a day. Synthetic oil is without a doubt a better oil for your car. True, most of todays engines (made within the last 10 years), will easily go past 200,000 miles, or even 300,000 miles with good maintenance, thats on 3,000 mile intervals, especially conventional motor oil. Anything longer with that will start to get darker, even within the manufacturers recommended intervals. You must remember, about 1/2 a quart of oil stays in your engine when you change your oil and oil filter. That contaminates your new motor oil as soon as you start it your car up for the first time. So when it gets a little dirty, unless its like one exception, it starts to build a snowball effect. This doesn't necessarily mean your engine won't reach 300,000 miles, or that you'll even own it half that long. But just because the engine makes it that long doesn't mean it retains its original performance. Dirty oil creates more resistance and heat, and wear on an engine. Synthetic oil does not break down, it offers better properties in extreme temperatures. Have you ever opened the hood of your car after driving for a little while on a warm day? Its very hot. Todays engines run a lot warmer under the hood, although mazda took some major steps with the 3 to keep temperatures down. Synthetic oil helps control this. The bottom line is that with synthetic you will retain more horsepower for more years with your vehicle. It comes down to a matter of priorities. If you are spending the extra $500 for the 5-10 horsepower increasing exhaust, why not pay the extra $30 on oil changes to keep your horsepower at least what it was when it left the factory. Why do you think so many games are making oil changes part the modifications and parts of gameplay? Its important! If you read this entire novel, then thank you, and feel free to ask me maintenance questions, I'd be glad to try and help.
I've seen test after test after test of Amsoil vs Redline vs Royal Purple vs Mobile 1, etc etc etc. Amsoil ALWAYS comes out on top, and any of the those are leaps and bounds better than regular oil. And Amsoil not that expensive if your a dealer. $30/year and your a dealer, big deal. At that point its $4.55/qt. Thats not nearly as expensive as Mobile 1 at most places.
BrewMaster
Member
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- Truck!
I agree with a lot of what you said carperformance3, but the whole 3 months/ 3000 miles thing is bogus and made up by oil manufacturers. i don't know about your shop, but whenever I get my oil changed on my F-150 by my dealer, they put a sticker on the window that says I need another oil change in 3 months or 3000 miles. but the owners manual says oil changes every 5k miles. most cars now call for 5k miles between oil changes. and if you use a good synthetic, that can get pushed out even longer. my point is that we should not perpetuate the myth of 3 months/3k miles because that is total BS. A properly maintained car can have longer intervals between oil changes.
The reason I say synthetic is not worth it on an economy car is that it doesn't give you much of a benefit. i mean, by the time the car dies, it won't have any value to you. plus, it's a freakin' economy car, who cares if you have 160HP or 155HP in 5 years. You're losing more horses in the transmission.
Say you change your oil every 5000 miles and you use synthetic at $5 quart (which is a bargain) vs. $2 a quart for regular 5W-20 and the car uses 5 quarts (I assume). For one oil change you spend at least $15 extra on synthetic. that means the oil alone costs you an extra $500 over the course of 160k miles, not counting premium filters which are a must if you're spending the dough on sythetic oil. the engine will due fine on what the manufacturer recommends and I can't justify for myself using synthetic. synthetic is factory fill for high performance engines like Porsche, BMW, etc for a reason. The 3, as cool as it is, has no need for synthetic in my humble. But if you want to pay the extra money for synthetic you go right ahead because it is your car and your cash so you shouldn't give a crap what some guy on the internet says. I'll save my money and use it to buy my next car or buy gas with these ridiculous prices.
The reason I say synthetic is not worth it on an economy car is that it doesn't give you much of a benefit. i mean, by the time the car dies, it won't have any value to you. plus, it's a freakin' economy car, who cares if you have 160HP or 155HP in 5 years. You're losing more horses in the transmission.
Say you change your oil every 5000 miles and you use synthetic at $5 quart (which is a bargain) vs. $2 a quart for regular 5W-20 and the car uses 5 quarts (I assume). For one oil change you spend at least $15 extra on synthetic. that means the oil alone costs you an extra $500 over the course of 160k miles, not counting premium filters which are a must if you're spending the dough on sythetic oil. the engine will due fine on what the manufacturer recommends and I can't justify for myself using synthetic. synthetic is factory fill for high performance engines like Porsche, BMW, etc for a reason. The 3, as cool as it is, has no need for synthetic in my humble. But if you want to pay the extra money for synthetic you go right ahead because it is your car and your cash so you shouldn't give a crap what some guy on the internet says. I'll save my money and use it to buy my next car or buy gas with these ridiculous prices.
goldwing2000
Turd in the punch bowl
- :
- 2004 Mazda3s Hatch; 269,000 miles
Point of fact: Motorcfaft 5W20 (what the car ships with from the factory) is semi-synthetic, not conventional.
Carry on with your rants.
Carry on with your rants.
Well, the Owners manual says 5,000mi. I've always gone 3,000mi. But I will go synthetic and change it at 5,000mi.
To the guy who said that a 1/2 quart is still in the engine when you change your oil. If you let it drain longer, will the leftover drain out?
I know these quick shops drain the oil, but since they are normally busy, they dont wait as long as they should?
To the guy who said that a 1/2 quart is still in the engine when you change your oil. If you let it drain longer, will the leftover drain out?
I know these quick shops drain the oil, but since they are normally busy, they dont wait as long as they should?
carperformance3
Member
- :
- 2004 Mazda3 5 door
Synthetic Oil
I know that most owners manuals are calling for longer intervals now, but that does not make it better. The new trend is making less maintenance for a vehicle, because trust me, most people do not like spending money on routine maintenance. Mercedes, who uses only synthetic from the factory for a couple of years now, got themselves into trouble with this. They pushed this lack of maintenance so that their oil change lights were reported by some owners for 20,000 to 30,000 mile intervals. This was a good thing for all their new car owners until their engines starting gumming up and locking up. Now Mercedes had a lawsuit filed against them. The moral of this story is that car companies are pushing their service intervals as long as they can, so that the part fails at an acceptable time. And if major failure happens at an acceptable time, (i.e. 250,000 miles) the consumer won't be so pissed off at it. On a performance basis, changing that fluid frequently, will make the engine last a lot longer, retaining factory performance, or close to it, especially when using a synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is such a better lubricant for the vehicle that I can guarantee that it is going the be the lowest standard for all qualities of oil in the near future. The oil standard this summer should be going up again, which may possibly be a partial synthetic, because it is supposed to cost "substantially more" than the current oil. Ford switched to partial synthetic as the standard for transmissions a long time ago. Anyone here of Mercon V? Mopar switched last year for transmissions. Now Ford and Mazda switched to partial synthetic for the motor oil as well. They wouldn't spend the extra money on all that motor oil (partial synthetic is about double the cost as conventional oil) if it wasn't for a very good reason. And partial synthetic is only barely worth the investment when compared to full synthetic, considering the convential motor oil in it still breaks down after 2,500 miles. On another note, that extra half a court left in the engine is not from a lack of draining time, that is from oil left in the bottom of the pan, because no oil pan has a perfect design to drain all the engine oil. There are always oil lines as well, and deposits left in the motor. We have a Bilstein engine flush machine that we use to clean out engines that have deposits, and after running this machine, the motor will take about half a quart more oil on the fill up. Also, if you ever checked a service manual (not owners manual), sometimes it will list total fill and refill with different numbers. Also, 5,000-7,500 mile intervals are for "normal driving conditions," which upon reading the descriptions, most enthusiasts are in the "severe driving contions". Which usually calls for 3,000 mile intervals.
Maybe when I have more time I will also post something in here that will retain your horsepower far more than using synthetic oil. If you have over 49,000 miles, you've already lost more horsepower since your car left the factory than any cold air intake could make up for.
I know that most owners manuals are calling for longer intervals now, but that does not make it better. The new trend is making less maintenance for a vehicle, because trust me, most people do not like spending money on routine maintenance. Mercedes, who uses only synthetic from the factory for a couple of years now, got themselves into trouble with this. They pushed this lack of maintenance so that their oil change lights were reported by some owners for 20,000 to 30,000 mile intervals. This was a good thing for all their new car owners until their engines starting gumming up and locking up. Now Mercedes had a lawsuit filed against them. The moral of this story is that car companies are pushing their service intervals as long as they can, so that the part fails at an acceptable time. And if major failure happens at an acceptable time, (i.e. 250,000 miles) the consumer won't be so pissed off at it. On a performance basis, changing that fluid frequently, will make the engine last a lot longer, retaining factory performance, or close to it, especially when using a synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is such a better lubricant for the vehicle that I can guarantee that it is going the be the lowest standard for all qualities of oil in the near future. The oil standard this summer should be going up again, which may possibly be a partial synthetic, because it is supposed to cost "substantially more" than the current oil. Ford switched to partial synthetic as the standard for transmissions a long time ago. Anyone here of Mercon V? Mopar switched last year for transmissions. Now Ford and Mazda switched to partial synthetic for the motor oil as well. They wouldn't spend the extra money on all that motor oil (partial synthetic is about double the cost as conventional oil) if it wasn't for a very good reason. And partial synthetic is only barely worth the investment when compared to full synthetic, considering the convential motor oil in it still breaks down after 2,500 miles. On another note, that extra half a court left in the engine is not from a lack of draining time, that is from oil left in the bottom of the pan, because no oil pan has a perfect design to drain all the engine oil. There are always oil lines as well, and deposits left in the motor. We have a Bilstein engine flush machine that we use to clean out engines that have deposits, and after running this machine, the motor will take about half a quart more oil on the fill up. Also, if you ever checked a service manual (not owners manual), sometimes it will list total fill and refill with different numbers. Also, 5,000-7,500 mile intervals are for "normal driving conditions," which upon reading the descriptions, most enthusiasts are in the "severe driving contions". Which usually calls for 3,000 mile intervals.
Maybe when I have more time I will also post something in here that will retain your horsepower far more than using synthetic oil. If you have over 49,000 miles, you've already lost more horsepower since your car left the factory than any cold air intake could make up for.
