Anyone have more specs on the MSM?

lude714 · May 19, 2004

First off I want to say hello to everyone and I'm looking forward to learning alot on this forum.

I am looking into getting the new MSM, but I can't seem to find much information on the car. I know all about the HP/TQ rating, weight, dimensions, etc... but I can't seem to find out much else.

Off the top of my head, here are a few things I'd like to know more about.

Injector size? (same as Base?)
Downpipe/exhuast size? I know FM added their exhaust to it to get 2-3 more hp, but what about adding a new DP (most factory cars are pretty small 2")
ECU? (same as Base model or modified for boost or larger injectors?)
Turbo specs?
Or anything else I can't think of right now.

Is this just a Base model with a turbo added? Or are there other differences (other than suspension & cosmetics)? Yea, I know if I just buy one I can find out these things myself, but I do plan to modify it and I guess I'm trying to find out if it is worth it or will I basically be replacing the whole system. Goal is 200 rwhp or greater.

I prefer the MSM over the FM kit only because of the warranty and I won't have to deal with tuning it. I am a 2000 Honda Prelude SH owner so please excuse my lack of knowledge on Mazdas.

Thanks,
Gregg

Orthonormal · May 19, 2004

It's a Miata with a turbo, suspension, and cosmetics. It also comes with some features and has options that are normally only available with the "LS" (leather) trim level, like the 6-speed and optional (or is it standard) ABS. The final drive ratio is shorter than other Miatas with the 6-speed.

lude714 · May 19, 2004

Orthonormal said:
It's a Miata with a turbo, suspension, and cosmetics. It also comes with some features and has options that are normally only available with the "LS" (leather) trim level, like the 6-speed and optional (or is it standard) ABS. The final drive ratio is shorter than other Miatas with the 6-speed.

Thanks, but I'm looking for more detailed specs on the turbo, ecu, injectors, exhaust, etc.... All that basic info I can read in the brochure. Unless what your telling me is the ecu, injectors and exhaust (size from downpipe on) is exactly the same.

Sdrotary2 · May 30, 2004

It also has lowered comp. I believe due to shaved pistons lowering it from 10:1 to 9.5:1. It also has shotpeened gears in an RX-8 trans if I am not mistaken too.

vodapas77 · May 30, 2004

It's actually a very interesting car because Mazda dug into the old parts bin. The suspension is almost completely based on the 99 Miata (which according to Sport Compact Car) was the best handling Miata up until the release of the MSM. The engine is based off of the 2000 Miata's BP in the fact that it has no VVT. Plus like was said before the combustion chamber has been reshaped along with the 9.5:1 pistons.

Funny how sometimes we only have to look back to the past to find the right parts for the job.

Mazdaspeedgirl · May 30, 2004

vodapas77 said:
It's actually a very interesting car because Mazda dug into the old parts bin. The suspension is almost completely based on the 99 Miata (which according to Sport Compact Car) was the best handling Miata up until the release of the MSM.

I agree, given my experience owing 2 99's and an '01.

(Though Keith may argue to the death with me on this one

)

Sdrotary2 · Jun 1, 2004

The vvt was lost for cost saving reasons. There were a lot of 99 parts on the new car. I drove it and it was fun, but It needed to have its boost raised (12psi) and a new intercooler. I keep telling my gf if she can get hers (02) stolen then she can have one. Otherwise I save up for a bsp/fm2 kit.

vodapas77 · Jun 1, 2004

Sdrotary2 said:
The vvt was lost for cost saving reasons.

Yup that and because VVT doesn't have much of a purpose on a boosted car.

Kelvin Hiraishi Director of Mazda R&D (Quoted from SCC June 04) said:
Variable Valve Timing really isn't necessary when running boost, so the system was ousted to cut costs and improve the engines midrange power.

SpicyMchaggis · Jun 1, 2004

i know my balls were on the steering wheel and i hit fuel cut in 2nd on the test drive..

vodapas77 · Jun 1, 2004

SpicyMchaggis said:
i know my balls were on the steering wheel and i hit fuel cut in 2nd on the test drive..

Hey Joe P, looks like a new model for the FCD. lol.

jared · Jun 1, 2004

i belive the turbo is a TD03 or a 13G or somewhere there abouts.
injectors are probably somewhere around 360-440cc's
DP is going to be close to 2"-2.25"
the ECU has been modified from the N/A but the tuning is NO good. once you start hitting full boost the car dumps fuel in.

things to upgrade.
upgrade to TD04E/14G turbo
2.5"DP w/out cat.
either a LINK or go AEM ECU's
upgrade the FMIC, should be pretty easy seeing where the thing is sitting.

even w/out cranking the boost, you can probably get abou 25rwhp just by making the car more efficient. from what i've heard the turbo is a big problem, it tends to start to run out of air at the top of 3rd gear and beyond. just by upping the turbo size to something a little larger means you can get better HP w/out upping boost, just because of the CFM gains you will recieve.

hope this helps.

Keith@FP · Jun 1, 2004

Interesting, isn't it, that Mazda has apparantly found a turbo that spools badly AND manages to make almost no power? That's some clever engineering. I don't know the specs on the turbo.

The cars do run extremely rich on the dyno, that's been found. The downpipe is probably the biggest restriction to making any significant power although the baby IC piping isn't helping any. We really expected to see a larger difference from putting the more open muffler on the car.

Jared, there are no plug-in ECUs available for the 1999-04 cars. Just FYI.

Keith
Flyin' Miata

TX Speed Demon · Jun 1, 2004

You could pm RX7GLSE (i think that's his name) with questions. He'd be the one to tell you since he owns one.

rx7gslse · Jun 1, 2004

I'm here... Whatcha wanna know? Most of the info here is prety correct

Yep, it's short geared, but that's kinda fun.. I hit the dyno and discovered how rich it runs, and how it doens't so much liek heat. Yes there's a nice neck in the downpipe right after the turbo, hopefully I'll have that fixed in a month or so

All being said.. . it's still a heckuva blast to drive.. You're not going to beat it for $$$/fun with any other new car out there. sure you can buy a used one and build it cheaper, so what...

Anything else ya wanna know?

TiGrayMsp716 · Jun 1, 2004

I heard that the msm has denso iridium plugs? Have any idea if they would fit on the MSP?

Mazdaspeedgirl · Jun 1, 2004

Keith@FP said:
Interesting, isn't it, that Mazda has apparantly found a turbo that spools badly AND manages to make almost no power? That's some clever engineering.

(lol)

jared · Jun 1, 2004

Keith@FP said:
Jared, there are no plug-in ECUs available for the 1999-04 cars. Just FYI.

Keith
Flyin' Miata

now that doesn't sound like fun.

although the AEM isn't plug-in, is it possible to put in a universal?

rx7gslse · Jun 1, 2004

jared said:
now that doesn't sound like fun.

although the AEM isn't plug-in, is it possible to put in a universal?

Sure you can wire in a Haltech or whatever you desire, but it's a lot more work...

We're gonna see how well the piggy-back concept works 1st.

Keith · Jun 4, 2004

TiGrayMsp716 said:
I heard that the msm has denso iridium plugs? Have any idea if they would fit on the MSP?

Yes, the Miata and the Protege use the same plugs. We tested Densos some time ago and found that they basically made no difference.

You can wire just about any ECU into any car. It's all about how much effort you want to put into it.

Keith
Flyin' Miata

Mazdaspeedgirl · Jun 4, 2004

Keith said:
Yes, the Miata and the Protege use the same plugs. We tested Densos some time ago and found that they basically made no difference.

snake oil, eh?

Anyone have more specs on the MSM?

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