still alots of road noise
- Thread starter Alantje
- Start date
- :
- 2001 Mazda MP3
did you test drive one?
Its not the wheel size that makes it louder. Its the agressive tread design. The 17's are a more performance orientated tire so they make more noise. But even still the 3 is quieter than the Civic, Corolla, Sentra.....etc. Anything that's quieter is also more money or a class up. IMHO
Eugeosyncline
Member
- :
- 2001 Protege ES
I Don't Buy It
I don't personally buy the argument that noisy driving characteristics must go hand in hand with an "economy" car. I'd use the Volkswagen Jetta as an example.
Although it is quite true that these cars are more expensive than other small cars in the class, I personally believe most of the higher cost associated with Jettas are simply because of the "VW" badge on it. It's all about vogue image. I also fail to buy the notion that, "Because they're German cars they're more expensive". Well, when speaking of the Jetta, they're made in Mexico with among the cheapest labor you can dig up on this planet (so are the current generation Nissan Sentras, as an aside)-- The Jettas we might buy here in North America have never seen the light of day in Germany or anywhere else in Europe. They get built on the cheap by workers in Puebla earning only around <i>$26 U.S. bucks a day</i>.
So basically, I'd expect it costs about the same to build a Jetta as it does a Mazda3, yet the Jetta is a superbly quiet vehicle for its class.
I've always been displeased with the noisy driving characteristics of my '01 Protege ES, and given what I've been reading about recent Mazda offerings (the 6 and 3) it's become apparent that noise control isn't something Mazda places much priority in-- Their efforts are probably going to other things; perhaps like handling characteristics, etc. To my personal chagrin...
I don't personally buy the argument that noisy driving characteristics must go hand in hand with an "economy" car. I'd use the Volkswagen Jetta as an example.
Although it is quite true that these cars are more expensive than other small cars in the class, I personally believe most of the higher cost associated with Jettas are simply because of the "VW" badge on it. It's all about vogue image. I also fail to buy the notion that, "Because they're German cars they're more expensive". Well, when speaking of the Jetta, they're made in Mexico with among the cheapest labor you can dig up on this planet (so are the current generation Nissan Sentras, as an aside)-- The Jettas we might buy here in North America have never seen the light of day in Germany or anywhere else in Europe. They get built on the cheap by workers in Puebla earning only around <i>$26 U.S. bucks a day</i>.
So basically, I'd expect it costs about the same to build a Jetta as it does a Mazda3, yet the Jetta is a superbly quiet vehicle for its class.
I've always been displeased with the noisy driving characteristics of my '01 Protege ES, and given what I've been reading about recent Mazda offerings (the 6 and 3) it's become apparent that noise control isn't something Mazda places much priority in-- Their efforts are probably going to other things; perhaps like handling characteristics, etc. To my personal chagrin...
If the Jetta competes with the 3 why did C&D do a comparison with the 6, Jetta, and Altima?
The Jetta may be classified as a compact, but in the real world it competes against the 6, Accord,....etc. The Golf competes against the the Protege, Civic....etc, its too much money to compete against the Echo and Hyundai crap.
The Passat competes in that 1/2 step up class with the Maxima.
The Jetta may be classified as a compact, but in the real world it competes against the 6, Accord,....etc. The Golf competes against the the Protege, Civic....etc, its too much money to compete against the Echo and Hyundai crap.
The Passat competes in that 1/2 step up class with the Maxima.
Eugeosyncline
Member
- :
- 2001 Protege ES
Curious Competition
Indeed I've always somehow thought of the Jetta as looking larger than it really is. It's quite true that there's something about that car's appearance that looks bigger, thus perhaps creating the impression that it's more in the class of the Mazda 6, etc.. That said, Jetta is categorized as a compact, and that's the class it belongs in, so it <b>is</b> in the same league as the Mazda 3. The notion that Jetta is somehow superior because its a German car, that it belongs in a higher class than a Mazda, and thereby justifiably more expensive, is bogus because it doesnt cost Volkswagen any more to build their car than many other manufacturers. Its about successful marketing and image... and nothing more. In fact, given how little they pay their workers over in Mexico, it wouldnt surprise me if it cost LESS to build a Jetta than, say, the Mazda 3. Auto workers in Japan earn much more (not to mention US auto workers), regulations are more stringent in terms of manufacturing/safety/environmental policies there, etc.. So it likely costs considerably more to build a car in Japan than in Mexico.
Carrying my point further along the lines of being in the same class as the Mazda 3, the Jetta's interior space is less roomy than even the current generation Protege-- I had the misfortune of taking an extended road trip in the back seat of one of those accursed VW's, and I can tell you without hesitation that our Protege's back seat area is much more comfortable and roomy (at least if you're 6 feet +). God help anyone who must sit back there for any length of time! For the price one is gouged when buying a Jetta, you really get screwed in interior space (not to mention reliability, which the Jetta has never once demonstrated itself worthy in, especially compared to Japanese makes like Toyota, Mazda, Honda).
Anyway, all I was saying is it likely costs about the same to build a Jetta as it does a Mazda3 (or Protege, for that matter). And based thereon there is no reason except priorities that Mazda lags behind in noise control (if indeed the Mazda 3 is still on the loud side). If Mazda wanted to build a car as quiet and civil riding as the Jetta they could do it, but dont because thats not what they currently care about, I theorize. They're focusing on sporty characteristics, which doesn't favor refinement.
In any event, I hope others' comments are correct that the Mazda 3 has improved dramatically over the 3rd Gen Protege and that the new 3's noise problems are exaggerated. As said, Ive been very, very unhappy with how noisy the Protege is, and would seriously consider a Mazda 3 if it indeed muffles some of the previous din.
Excellent thread! It's good to hear other people's experiences and get their input!
Indeed I've always somehow thought of the Jetta as looking larger than it really is. It's quite true that there's something about that car's appearance that looks bigger, thus perhaps creating the impression that it's more in the class of the Mazda 6, etc.. That said, Jetta is categorized as a compact, and that's the class it belongs in, so it <b>is</b> in the same league as the Mazda 3. The notion that Jetta is somehow superior because its a German car, that it belongs in a higher class than a Mazda, and thereby justifiably more expensive, is bogus because it doesnt cost Volkswagen any more to build their car than many other manufacturers. Its about successful marketing and image... and nothing more. In fact, given how little they pay their workers over in Mexico, it wouldnt surprise me if it cost LESS to build a Jetta than, say, the Mazda 3. Auto workers in Japan earn much more (not to mention US auto workers), regulations are more stringent in terms of manufacturing/safety/environmental policies there, etc.. So it likely costs considerably more to build a car in Japan than in Mexico.
Carrying my point further along the lines of being in the same class as the Mazda 3, the Jetta's interior space is less roomy than even the current generation Protege-- I had the misfortune of taking an extended road trip in the back seat of one of those accursed VW's, and I can tell you without hesitation that our Protege's back seat area is much more comfortable and roomy (at least if you're 6 feet +). God help anyone who must sit back there for any length of time! For the price one is gouged when buying a Jetta, you really get screwed in interior space (not to mention reliability, which the Jetta has never once demonstrated itself worthy in, especially compared to Japanese makes like Toyota, Mazda, Honda).
Anyway, all I was saying is it likely costs about the same to build a Jetta as it does a Mazda3 (or Protege, for that matter). And based thereon there is no reason except priorities that Mazda lags behind in noise control (if indeed the Mazda 3 is still on the loud side). If Mazda wanted to build a car as quiet and civil riding as the Jetta they could do it, but dont because thats not what they currently care about, I theorize. They're focusing on sporty characteristics, which doesn't favor refinement.
In any event, I hope others' comments are correct that the Mazda 3 has improved dramatically over the 3rd Gen Protege and that the new 3's noise problems are exaggerated. As said, Ive been very, very unhappy with how noisy the Protege is, and would seriously consider a Mazda 3 if it indeed muffles some of the previous din.
Excellent thread! It's good to hear other people's experiences and get their input!
I think it depends on what model of the Jetta you get. A GLS VR6 or 1.8t is definately in a class above a 3. And Jetta sare not cheap cars. They are quite because of the extra soundproofing and suspension tweeks they are a better built car and there is more money put in a Jetta to refine it. I do believe that a Jetta 4 banger is in the same class as a 3, but it is a piece of s***. Plastic wheel covers and 115 hp for 19 grand? No way. Mazda 4 ever! (untill I can afford something nicer)
I've now driven all 3 Mazda3 tire sizes (15 to 17-inch).
As I said before, the noise gets worse as the rim size gets larger (because there's less sidewall to cushion the bumps). However, the difference between the three is NOT very significant.
Only after I drove the 15-inch did I realize that maybe my expectations regarding road noise was a bit high (because I was buying a car, I've been testdriving many cars lately, but all were of a higher class than the 3).
And as I said, I bought a Mazda3 anyways, so it obviously wasn't a deal breaker for me.
As I said before, the noise gets worse as the rim size gets larger (because there's less sidewall to cushion the bumps). However, the difference between the three is NOT very significant.
Only after I drove the 15-inch did I realize that maybe my expectations regarding road noise was a bit high (because I was buying a car, I've been testdriving many cars lately, but all were of a higher class than the 3).
And as I said, I bought a Mazda3 anyways, so it obviously wasn't a deal breaker for me.
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
ACK! So both the MSM AND the 3 are going to be offered in Titanium. GRRR
Post some pics of your 3 when you get it.
Post some pics of your 3 when you get it.
Eugeosyncline
Member
- :
- 2001 Protege ES
I Already Have
Ahh! Regarding noise dissatisfaction, I already have completed an <i>exhaustive</i>, all encompassing noise control project on my Protege.
I kid you not: Double layer of B-Quiet's Brown Bread dampener material throughout the <i>entire</I> interior, covered in turn by a single layer of B-Quiet's L-Comp, <b>LEAD</b> based absorbtion material (except for the doors, which only have the double Brown Bread on them due to space limitations, and the roof which is also limited).
I worked on my car over the course of an entire month, going two weeks where the car was out of drivable service, with weather interruptions, work obligations, etc, etc, etc.. It was relentless, tedious, back-breaking toil. And the results?
Marginal difference, at best. I'd say there is little that can help the Protege if all the KILL MYSELF work I did provided little relief from the horrible raucous of road noise in this car. After around $800 bucks in material and 200 lbs. of added weight, I concluded that my only course of action was looking toward a different car.
So my criticism does not come without just cause or lack of good faith effort to rectify the situation-- Even with extreme measure. I've done all I will tolerate, I'm sorry to say.
Ahh! Regarding noise dissatisfaction, I already have completed an <i>exhaustive</i>, all encompassing noise control project on my Protege.
I kid you not: Double layer of B-Quiet's Brown Bread dampener material throughout the <i>entire</I> interior, covered in turn by a single layer of B-Quiet's L-Comp, <b>LEAD</b> based absorbtion material (except for the doors, which only have the double Brown Bread on them due to space limitations, and the roof which is also limited).
I worked on my car over the course of an entire month, going two weeks where the car was out of drivable service, with weather interruptions, work obligations, etc, etc, etc.. It was relentless, tedious, back-breaking toil. And the results?
Marginal difference, at best. I'd say there is little that can help the Protege if all the KILL MYSELF work I did provided little relief from the horrible raucous of road noise in this car. After around $800 bucks in material and 200 lbs. of added weight, I concluded that my only course of action was looking toward a different car.
So my criticism does not come without just cause or lack of good faith effort to rectify the situation-- Even with extreme measure. I've done all I will tolerate, I'm sorry to say.
