The Protege wasn't built to be boosted. If Mazda were smart they would have used a diff engine or at least beefed up the internals. Why would someone who wants a performance car spend 21-22K on this car when they can spend the same amount or less on something like a WRX, 2nd Gen Eclipse, Supra, RX-7, the list goes on and on. You buy this car and you have a bad base to build on. There is few aftermarket goodies for us. On cars that were built to be turbo you can simply turn the boost up a bit and get more power. Hell, even Honda engines can take 10-15 psi and not break. what about the Miata engine and tranny? That is a decent engine, why not throw it on the Protege and boost it? Oh well, at least we get rims and a cool stereo.
This car is a bad idea
- Thread starter NC_MP3
- Start date
Well, it's a chicken and egg sort of thing. Mazda needed to show the world that tuned Proteges sell (at list price or above, we found). There is now a groundswell of hopped up Mazda cars (scan any thread here), racing (Speed Touring Car), rally (SCCA ProRally) and autocross in various flavors. Now there are (and will be) a variety of factory and third party parts for the Protege. Notice that Mazda brought in (and gave $$$ to) aftermarket vendors instead of just creating a high performance parts divison? Smart move. Get vendors to create parts for projects and they will sell them.
It is easier for a aftermarket vendor to make some more Civic parts (knowing that it is like hot rod parts for a '57 Chevy) - they will sell. Convincing that same vendor to create/make/stock/sell parts for a less popular car (the Protege) needs the car company to step up and show it can be done.
The engine and drivetrain will hold up under normal use. Mazda isn't stupid. They have to warranty the car for 3 years or 50,000 miles. If you grenade the motor under warranty - (short of extreme mods or utter stupidity) - they will have to cough up a new engine and pay the friendly local dealer to replace or repair it.
There is not a lot of profit margin in a $20,000 motor vehicle to take care of these things, so I'm betting that Mazda (and Callaway -- the folks with THEIR rep on the line) have tested this setup and continue to do so. Probably at higher boost levels, too. Recalling 1500 Mazdaspeed Proteges with ventilated engine blocks would be expensive to fix and would generate very bad press on top of some EXCELLENT recent writeups.
If it was that Mazda was being short-sighted or cheap in specing the Mazdaspeed, they wouldn't have put in an limited slip diff and bigger axles. I have to think that they know what they are doing. They need to have the car hold up and sell for a price that people will pay knowing that they getting a good deal.
(Of course, that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.)
It is easier for a aftermarket vendor to make some more Civic parts (knowing that it is like hot rod parts for a '57 Chevy) - they will sell. Convincing that same vendor to create/make/stock/sell parts for a less popular car (the Protege) needs the car company to step up and show it can be done.
The engine and drivetrain will hold up under normal use. Mazda isn't stupid. They have to warranty the car for 3 years or 50,000 miles. If you grenade the motor under warranty - (short of extreme mods or utter stupidity) - they will have to cough up a new engine and pay the friendly local dealer to replace or repair it.
There is not a lot of profit margin in a $20,000 motor vehicle to take care of these things, so I'm betting that Mazda (and Callaway -- the folks with THEIR rep on the line) have tested this setup and continue to do so. Probably at higher boost levels, too. Recalling 1500 Mazdaspeed Proteges with ventilated engine blocks would be expensive to fix and would generate very bad press on top of some EXCELLENT recent writeups.
If it was that Mazda was being short-sighted or cheap in specing the Mazdaspeed, they wouldn't have put in an limited slip diff and bigger axles. I have to think that they know what they are doing. They need to have the car hold up and sell for a price that people will pay knowing that they getting a good deal.
(Of course, that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.)
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Yeah. I would rather get a used 99 or 00 Audi A4 1.8 Quattro Turbo. You can easily chip it to 207hp and a 240 plus lb/ft of torque. Not bad for a less than $22,000 investment. Plus, it's a proven aftermarket platform, compared to the Protege.
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gene in cincinnati said:
The 3rd gen Protege might not be a totally proven platform, yet. But it's getting there. Mazda put the Protege in the SPEED World Touring Car Championship for a reason. To show just what the Protege is capable of.
The 1st and 2nd gen Proteges have a decent after market following. Is it as big as Honda's for the same time period of cars, no, but it is growing.
If you read articles from magazines back when the first Protege came off the line in 1990, everyone loved it. It handled better than any other car in it's class. And that was stock. As the Protege aged, every iteration was received favorably by the automotive press. Mostly for it's stiff chassis and nice suspension. Something the other cars in it's class couldn't touch from the factory.
The closest car I think to get close would be the Corolla with the TRD package. But even then, that car is loose with the TRD stuff in it. The chassis wasn't designed for those parts or that stiff of a spring IMHO.
And, as for the Audi thing, that car weighs a lot and also has the dis/advantage of all-wheel drive. Sure you can boost the power easy enough, but it needs a lot more power to over come the huge drive train losses. Don't get me wrong, I love Audi (I have since 1984), but the A4 1.8T isn't the best platform to work with from them. And the maintenance costs on an Audi will easily cost twice as much for anything on the same year Protege.
I'm happy with my decision to buy Mazda products. I just wish I had the money to get the Mazdaspeed Protege as well.
Gro Harlem
Member
Dood, the FS Mazda engine is stronger than lots of the honda engines. It has a forged crank, iron block just like the B series miata engine. It isn't as strong, but it isn't weak. I would bet the FS could handle 13 psi on the street on stock internals with the MS protege's turbocharging system.
I do agree that 22k is way too much for this car. 20k would be a good deal though.
I do agree that 22k is way too much for this car. 20k would be a good deal though.
I totally agree that the 1.8TQ is not the best Audi platform to work with, but it is the most cost-effective choice when comparing it with the Mazdaspeed Protege, in my opinion. I would love to get a used S4 and mod the heck out of it. Actually, I am considering a 2002 A4 Avant 3.0 Quattro as my next car when my lease is up this fall.
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gene in cincinnati said:
I'd argue that the Jetta with a 1.8T would be more a more cost-effective comparrison with the Mazdaspeed Protege.
Personally, I think that all wheel drive is an advantage. Yes, it is a bit heavier than a non-Quattro car, but the handling advantage outweighs it's negatives.
Yes, the 1.8T Jetta is a better comparison, since it's underpinnings are nearly identical to the old A4. At the end of the day, it's just cool to have so many great choices, including the Protege.
Yes, the 1.8T Jetta is a better comparison, since it's underpinnings are nearly identical to the old A4. At the end of the day, it's just cool to have so many great choices, including the Protege.
AAAhhhhhh!!!!!!! Lets ramble since there's no more real information leaking to us about the MS.
about the s4 or a4....I have a good friend who is in the top of his class in scca and always has interesting stories to tell b/c he travels EVERY weekend chasing AX events. Last time he mentioned seeing a s4, he said something to this effect, "Man it had like 375hp! except he blew the turbo halfway through the day." He has another story about his best friend blowing the T on his A4. Doesn't sound very cool or reliable.
about the s4 or a4....I have a good friend who is in the top of his class in scca and always has interesting stories to tell b/c he travels EVERY weekend chasing AX events. Last time he mentioned seeing a s4, he said something to this effect, "Man it had like 375hp! except he blew the turbo halfway through the day." He has another story about his best friend blowing the T on his A4. Doesn't sound very cool or reliable.
kcagle said:
You are correct sir. Audi has had some issues with their "weak" turbos. I've been reading more and more occurances of S4 owners having to replace a turbo. However, the A/S4 is a beautiful car and quattro is excellent.
Lets not compare the 4-door MS Pro to RX-7s and the like. BTW, a $22,000 turbo supra probably has a ton of miles. Most supras in good condition are $30,000+ depending on milage.
Mazda is doing all of us a favor. We'll all get more recognition becuase of this car
Honda = crappy f/i motor
Hondas cannot reliably handle more than 7psi of boost. They are the weakest platform to work on. The problem is not the rods and pistons but there weak blocks. Honda need a lot of work to get boosted serously
Could not have even come close to saying it better myself
Chris Farbry
Member
spoolinmp3 said:
Honda = crappy f/i motor
Hondas cannot reliably handle more than 7psi of boost. They are the weakest platform to work on. The problem is not the rods and pistons but there weak blocks. Honda need a lot of work to get boosted serously
Could not have even come close to saying it better myself
Honda=crappy f/i motor, thats the first Ive heard that one
I can't ever say all honda motors are THE weakest platform to boost on, thats just a really bold and ignorant statement. Honda blocks are usually not designed for high boost, but its really not the blocks that cant take it, it IS actually the rods. Honda motors have higher than average compression ratios which as most people know aren't exactly suitable for boost (ping/detonation). Actually the block guards some people put in their blocks, do more harm than good. If youre talking about 18 pounds and up, sure, youll need the forged rods, and lower comp pistons. Even then, block guards still aren't recommended at the shops around my area until you get up around 24. These are shops who have been working since the early 90s.
There are examples of people with a 10psi application and eventually blow up their engine, but Ive never heard of anyone tear up their block, the rods give out because they had nasty detonation. Then again, I know guys with stock internals drive daily with 10 pounds and only an intercooler, injectors, and a way to control to the fuel. Not even a pump.
Honda motors are not crap for induction, nor are Mazda motors.
Comparing an Audi-anything to a Mazda Protege is like comparing apples to... Watermelons.
I'm not sure this car is a bad idea. Everyone who comes up and talks to me at an autocross always ends up mentioning the "new one with the turbo". I think it may be bad for those of us with the "lesser" protege. The thought has crossed my mind to try and unload my MP3 before the value drops, which will be inevitable once the Mazdaspeed comes out.
I'm not sure this car is a bad idea. Everyone who comes up and talks to me at an autocross always ends up mentioning the "new one with the turbo". I think it may be bad for those of us with the "lesser" protege. The thought has crossed my mind to try and unload my MP3 before the value drops, which will be inevitable once the Mazdaspeed comes out.
nc the mazda is different why buy what everyone else has....if you want to get a real car go spend $35000 on the evo that will blow away any of the cars on the road in in all categories id rather have a limited edition car then a car you see everytime on the road like hondas and wrx and a bad eclipse. You cant get a supra for 21000 unless it is it has 100,000 miles on it and isn't in good shape.........
funnylittlman
Member
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- Protege
SO I wonder if NC MP3 thinks the MSP is still a bad idea
