RX-7 hybrid
- Thread starter Apollo
- Start date
Yeah i can understand your point, one of the main questions that i have heard from most people is that the V-8 will weigh more, once you get the certain v-8 in there the car actually weighs less than it did before, around 300 lbs less. Which does keep the weight distribution around the same as it was before. But as we all know more of the rotary's go out and start having problems around 50k+ miles. Now think about this you take a nice size v-8 with around 350hp and take a 2800 lb car what times do you estimate out of that? You are already in the 11's in the quarter with a good set of street tires and mid to low 11's with slicks. Now that that has been said, no mods (high 11's) now add cam, air lid, some suspension like sub frame connectors, adjustables, springs, then soon you would be in the low 11's with less than 20-22k invested in the car. What other way can you be in the low 11's with that kind of money in the car? I haven't seen any.
its been done. see rx7club.com for details.
for hardcore rotary enthusiasts like me, doing such a thing is BLASPHEMY.
but hey, its your car, do what you what.
btw, if you buy an fc with a blown engine, put in a built one. slap a big fat turbo with haltech and all associated accessories needed to run the car. you will run 11s, and it will cost less than 15k.
for hardcore rotary enthusiasts like me, doing such a thing is BLASPHEMY.
but hey, its your car, do what you what.
btw, if you buy an fc with a blown engine, put in a built one. slap a big fat turbo with haltech and all associated accessories needed to run the car. you will run 11s, and it will cost less than 15k.
Yeah i know that it has already been done. My good friend is owns Hinson super cars, he built the first one. I rode in both his and 750hp rotary here. But the way that i look at it is the rotary once you get higher and higher in the hp range things keep falling apart. Most of the guys that i have known that have 2 and 3 rotars went through 3 and 4 motors throughout the course of the project and most of them barely last over 50k miles. But i am sure that there are motors out there that have lasted 100k and so on but for the mojority i don't see that as reliability. But i have all the respect in the world for the guys that are squeezing 800-850 out of the 3rd gen. I understand that alot of guys that love rotary engines wouldn't dream of doing it, but differences in opinion is what makes the world go round. I would lke to know why it is you wouldn't want an LS1 in instead of a rotary. I know that you love rotary's but what makes you not want to try it and see how it turns out?
its just a personal preference for me. rx-7 to me means rotary. i wouldn't dream of putting anything else in there. reguarding reliability...they can be very reliable if you tune, and maintain it RIGHT. take care of your care like you would take care of yourself (this may not fit everyone hehe).
the LS1 is a great V8...it's not extremely heave, can produce lots of power. but it's not a rotary, and to me, it doesn't belong in an car that was originally rotary powered.
the LS1 is a great V8...it's not extremely heave, can produce lots of power. but it's not a rotary, and to me, it doesn't belong in an car that was originally rotary powered.
SpeedFreak
Member
The service manager at the Mazda dealer in Raleigh NC did this with a first gen. and could not get traction to save his ass. This car would break traction at 55mph with two 150lb plus people in it. He stuffed the biggest, stickiest tires under the back that he could and he still could not keep it on the road. He finally sold it.
http://www.dragva.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6073
there is a huge thread about it in case u want to see their point of view (hi)
there is a huge thread about it in case u want to see their point of view (hi)
twiztedjeckel
Member
- :
- '04 SVT Focus
you may as well glue a sign to your head that says "VB rules so no rotary guys talk to me" if you plan on doing this conversion. if i'm not mistaken there's actually rules against it someplace in the Rotary handbook that Felix put out some years ago.
if your really worried about the reliability of the engines why does Rob and Pineapple Racing offer an 5 year 60K mile warrenty with his engines? thats gotta say something right there. more argument for your reliability thoughts is this. why is it that N/A rotaries have been known to last for 200K+ miles and a properly driven and properly maintained turbo or even twin turbo'd one for just as many?
the truth of the matter is that the engine doesn't just fail magically because 60k miles pop up. It takes some sort of event to trigger this..
Instead of people talking about the triggering events, people make silly comments about the engines that just "die". Well, durrrr.. Preignition will kill them, its that simple.
Look at it another way.. Can a piston engine have preignition? Sure it can. In the event that a piston engine destroys something causing it to rebuilt, do people say "piston engines blow up all the time"? Typically no. Don't blame the engine, blame the user (for the most part).
if your really worried about the reliability of the engines why does Rob and Pineapple Racing offer an 5 year 60K mile warrenty with his engines? thats gotta say something right there. more argument for your reliability thoughts is this. why is it that N/A rotaries have been known to last for 200K+ miles and a properly driven and properly maintained turbo or even twin turbo'd one for just as many?
the truth of the matter is that the engine doesn't just fail magically because 60k miles pop up. It takes some sort of event to trigger this..
Instead of people talking about the triggering events, people make silly comments about the engines that just "die". Well, durrrr.. Preignition will kill them, its that simple.
Look at it another way.. Can a piston engine have preignition? Sure it can. In the event that a piston engine destroys something causing it to rebuilt, do people say "piston engines blow up all the time"? Typically no. Don't blame the engine, blame the user (for the most part).
SpeedFreak
Member
The weight thing may not even be an issue though. PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) sells complete all aluminum small and big block chevy long block kits. They're not that expensive either. Aluminum heads, block, hell even rods if you want. Heaviest thing in the kit is the crank!
twiztedjeckel
Member
- :
- '04 SVT Focus
or you could get just get a nice single turbo,tune it,get some fuel upgrades,remapped ecu and go have a ball.
"For those that said it could not be done .......
Just got off the dyno and here are the results...
402 rwh and 356rwt....."
taken from a guy called Boostn7 on the RX-7 forum. those #'s right there are from the stock turbo's by the way.
there are a bunch of guys running mid to low 11's on stock turbo's and even some into the 10's.
"For those that said it could not be done .......
Just got off the dyno and here are the results...
402 rwh and 356rwt....."
taken from a guy called Boostn7 on the RX-7 forum. those #'s right there are from the stock turbo's by the way.
there are a bunch of guys running mid to low 11's on stock turbo's and even some into the 10's.
User error and not taking care of the car. But no matter how you look at this a V8 lasts a lot longer than a rotary TURBO. Non turbo rotary's last a very long time. I have a 88 rx-7 in our garage that has over 150k on it and i use it on occasion. But i have rarely heard of a 3rd gen rx-7 with substancial mods lasting over 70k without having to buy a new engine. And if it does last then it has been rarely driven and tuned out the wazoo.
On the other hand you see everyday LS1, LT1, etc with more mods than can list that carry over to 120-150k
The guys that are running in the 11's and 10's how much do they have invested in that car, and how many engines have they gone through in the time it has taken them to get their times that low.
Now that this is turning into stipulation and opinion war. The only other thing that i will have to say is take a stock 3rd gen twin turbo and take a stock LS1 dropped into the same engine bay and take them out to a road course or the drag strip and see who will turn out the best times.
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if you take a 3rd gen with a the 13BT-REW and a 3rd gen with a LS1...both stock suspension..
road coarse, hands down, the FD3S has one of the most nimble chassis I've seen...the LS1 transplant has no chance.
on the drag strip...on street tires, it all depends on traction. The LS1 will definitely get the jump...and most likely the win at the end of the 1/4...but it'll be close.
There's a thread on rx7club.com that discusses this. A user with a LS1 (soon to be supercharged) against a 13BT-REW single turbo MONSTER. There's a $1500 dollar bet involved...and I can't wait to see the outcome.
road coarse, hands down, the FD3S has one of the most nimble chassis I've seen...the LS1 transplant has no chance.
on the drag strip...on street tires, it all depends on traction. The LS1 will definitely get the jump...and most likely the win at the end of the 1/4...but it'll be close.
There's a thread on rx7club.com that discusses this. A user with a LS1 (soon to be supercharged) against a 13BT-REW single turbo MONSTER. There's a $1500 dollar bet involved...and I can't wait to see the outcome.
twiztedjeckel
Member
- :
- '04 SVT Focus
you've got to be some kind of genious to come up with these things. go ahead and stick an LS1 into the car and see how far you get. make sure you keep us all posted and let the RX-7Club guys know as well because there aren't too many people that have succesfully done this conversion and have lived to tell about it.
did you ever think about the difference in the size of the engines as well? they may be similar in weight but still they don't have the same overall dimensions so you will be throwing off the handeling characteristics no matter what you think.
thats all i've got to say for the night. i'll be back tomorrow
did you ever think about the difference in the size of the engines as well? they may be similar in weight but still they don't have the same overall dimensions so you will be throwing off the handeling characteristics no matter what you think.
thats all i've got to say for the night. i'll be back tomorrow
Mazdaspeedgirl
Resident Autocrosser
- :
- 99 10AE MX-5 | 2016.5 CX-5 GT
rotary miata.
Mazdaspeedgirl
Resident Autocrosser
- :
- 99 10AE MX-5 | 2016.5 CX-5 GT
we should go the other way around...like my friend from Puerto Rico--he says they cram rotaries in EVERYTHING! It's my dream....rotary is the wave of the future...you can't beat 250hp from 1.3 litres!
ooo....I wanna see a 3 rotor rx7...and a 4 rotor full size truck!
~day dreamin~
ooo....I wanna see a 3 rotor rx7...and a 4 rotor full size truck!
~day dreamin~
andy_guerriero
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege5
I have to disagree with the blanket statement that a standard V8 would last longer than any rotary, even with turbos.
The Wankel has far fewer components than a standard reciprocating engine. This fact alone means better reliability. Fewer moving parts means fewer things to break. No timing belts, no cracked heads or failed head gaskets... these are all common "major" engine problems that any V-8 will experience.
The most common "major" engine problems for a rotary are O-ring failure and apex seal failure.
O-ring failures usually occur due to overheating of the engine. Apex seal failures rarely occur in non-ported engines, and rarely occur in turbocharged engines with standard boost. In either case, when they do occur it's generally due to extensive mods and/or failure to properly maintain the engine or responsibily accomodate for those mods. In those cases, you know the risks.
I have a 3rd gen RX-7 with 171000 miles on it and there has never been any engine problem related to the rotors.
The Wankel has far fewer components than a standard reciprocating engine. This fact alone means better reliability. Fewer moving parts means fewer things to break. No timing belts, no cracked heads or failed head gaskets... these are all common "major" engine problems that any V-8 will experience.
The most common "major" engine problems for a rotary are O-ring failure and apex seal failure.
O-ring failures usually occur due to overheating of the engine. Apex seal failures rarely occur in non-ported engines, and rarely occur in turbocharged engines with standard boost. In either case, when they do occur it's generally due to extensive mods and/or failure to properly maintain the engine or responsibily accomodate for those mods. In those cases, you know the risks.
I have a 3rd gen RX-7 with 171000 miles on it and there has never been any engine problem related to the rotors.
