practicality of a turbo...

C

cougfan99

• Nov 5, 2001

• #1

Lets be realistic- based on the knowledge that the probe engine had a turbo version, and the probe engine is essentially the same as ours, the possibility of having a turbo MP3 is there, but is it really practicle?

Gaining a generous 30 HP from the engine to 170 still would not make our cars drag racers, plus the gas mileage would drop significantly, probably lower than most V6 cars.

And weighing the outrageous cost of installing a turbo against the resale value of the car once installed, makes the turbo seem like a waste.

Lets be realistic- this car is a roadster, not a speedster, and it always will be.

 

R

Razhael

Member

• Nov 6, 2001

• #2

and once again, thats your opinion.

im just glad i convinced some ppl over the mp5online forums to go to Mr. Corky Bell for some turbo kit!

 

A

APEXistud

Member

:

1990 Mazda Miata

• Nov 6, 2001

• #3

Yeah, 30hp would be a complete waste of everyones's time concidering you can possibly get those numbers from our motor staying NA.

If someone had the money to build a custom, I'm sure they'd shot for somewhere around 210-220whp. Or at least that's what I'd expect from a turbo's 2.0 liter.

 

R

Razhael

Member

• Nov 6, 2001

• #4

well, i dunno who came up with 30hp number, but Mr. Bell himself estimated to get 205 to 215 with a 6 to 8 psi turbo kit on the 140 2.0 that we have. And why is everybody talking like we can really do the intake cam upgrade? it says clearly is not legal

 

A

APEXistud

Member

:

1990 Mazda Miata

• Nov 6, 2001

• #5

Rahzel, Rahzel buddy. You're forgetting that turboing a car that isn't turbo from the factory is pretty illegal everywhere. The only place you really have to worry about it though (from my understanding) is California. Now I could be wrong and other states may have tough smog laws, but it seems like they're rarely enforced.

And even if you do have aftermarket cams or a an aftermarket cam in this case, chances are, you'll still pass a smog test if it's tuned properly. As most of us know, a smog test has 2 parts, the visual part and the tail pipe sniffer. With a cam and and drop in K&N filter or even the AEM which is CARB'd and 50-state legal, you'd definately pass the visual. And if the car is tuned properly you should pass the sniffer too.

So, I definately wouldn't eliminate the Cam & intake idea. Unfortunately though, until someone comes up with an aftermarket header that eliminates the Cat in the stock exhaust manifold, we're not going to see big increases in hp with each mod. Actually, as long as we have the stock exhaust manifold on the car, no one will crack the 170whp mark (economically), without the aid of NOS or forced induction. Just my .02 cents

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: APEXistud ]

 

R

Razhael

Member

• Nov 6, 2001

• #6

Originally posted by APEXistud:
<STRONG>Rahzel, Rahzel buddy. You're forgetting that turboing a car that isn't turbo from the factory is pretty illegal everywhere. The only place you really have to worry about it though (from my understanding) is California. Now I could be wrong and other states may have tough smog laws, but it seems like they're rarely enforced.
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: APEXistud ]</STRONG>

Click to expand...

wrong! well at least that illegal turbo statement is wrong if you are talking of a BEGI turbo kit! their systems are CARB legal. But actually, i was asking around yesterday, and the county where i live, they dont use the sniffer for the inspection, just the visual, and I do remember when i registered my old miata to TX (it had florida plates) they hardly check my lights and gave me the paper but im worried of installing the cams and then moving to a place where they actually do the CARB test

 

N

NC_MP3

Member

• Nov 6, 2001

• #7

Hahaha, you guys think that 30 HP is all you can get out of a turbo? Yes, the initial kits may only give you 60-70 HP (doubt any kit will give as little as 30), but if you give it time we will have kits to take the MP3 to 300 HP @ the engine, easy.

Look at it this way. I have an Integra LS. It has 140 HP stock, just like the MP3. I added a Gen Drag 3 turbo kit. This was a complete bolt on kit. Came with an intercooler, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, even guages and a guage pod. I have this kit, and a cat back exhaust system from Apex. Haven't had the car dyno'd, but the turbo kit alone is rated at 265 HP @ the wheels. Now that is prolly about 280 HP @ the engine. That is 140 HP gain, running at only 6 pounds of boost.

The only thing holding us back right now is the stock fuel system, I would think. Once we get better fuel pumps and bigger injectors, I think we can put together a kit with a front mount intercooler that will give us 300 HP @ the engine. After that, we need pistons, rods, rings, crank, throttle body, ignition, all that needs to be upgraded to go past 300.

I am not an expert, just saying what I think from working on Honda engines.

 

A

APEXistud

Member

:

1990 Mazda Miata

• Nov 7, 2001

• #8

Rahzel, Rahzel buddy. A turbo cannot be CARB approved without being tested. So if any turbo which is still in development is being advertised as CARB legal without being tested, it should be considered false advertising. No company can release a kit and just say "CARB'd, 50-state legal" Unless it has been tested by the California Air Resource Board and has been given CARB exemption. Plain and simple. They can say that their goal is to be CARB exempt, but without testing it will remain to be seen. And as for BEGI, they still don't have a 2.0 liter Mazda MP3 turbo kit, so you can't exaclty say that there kit is CARB when it doesn't even exist.

I see no need to worry about the cams. Seeing as how I know quite a few people who own Civic SI's and have CTR Civic Type R cams in their cars and still pass smog exams. And my brother who owns a Focus and has cams aswell, he passes with flying colors. So, I imagine that there wouldn't be a problem.

 

Y

YellowMP3#1237

• Nov 8, 2001

• #9

Originally posted by SanFranMP3:
<STRONG>Lets be realistic- based on the knowledge that the probe engine had a turbo version, and the probe engine is essentially the same as ours, the possibility of having a turbo MP3 is there, but is it really practicle?
</STRONG>

Click to expand...

The probe's turbo won't fit our motors at all. It is a totally different motor from our FS motor. Their 93-97 base model has the same motor as us, but not the older turbo ones.

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: YellowMP3#1237 ]

 

L

LinuxRacr

Contributor

:

2001 Mazda MP3

• Nov 8, 2001

• #10

Hey,

Just wondering, when you put your indiglos on, were you able to do it so that your needles still function correctly?

 

M

MazdaMP

Member

• Nov 8, 2001

• #11

hey, where did u connect the power wires to?
i remember when i installed indiglos in a Civic we had to connect them to the headlight?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

 

L

LinuxRacr

Contributor

:

2001 Mazda MP3

• Nov 8, 2001

• #12

I had them installed by a someone else.

 

Y

YellowMP3#1237

• Nov 9, 2001

• #13

I installed mine myself without any problems. I connected it to the parking light fuse and it works without any problems.

 

L

LinuxRacr

Contributor

:

2001 Mazda MP3

• Nov 9, 2001

• #14

You did have to pull the needles off didn't you?

 

Y

YellowMP3#1237

• Nov 9, 2001

• #15

nope. I just flexed the guage face a lil and fit it around the needle. rotated it, and snaped it into place. It was easy

 

L

LinuxRacr

Contributor

:

2001 Mazda MP3

• Nov 9, 2001

• #16

What Brand are you using?

 

S

subywan-kenobi

• Nov 10, 2001

• #17

Originally posted by NC_MP3:
<STRONG>Look at it this way. I have an Integra LS. It has 140 HP stock, just like the MP3. I added a Gen Drag 3 turbo kit. This was a complete bolt on kit. Came with an intercooler, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, even guages and a guage pod. I have this kit, and a cat back exhaust system from Apex. Haven't had the car dyno'd, but the turbo kit alone is rated at 265 HP @ the wheels. Now that is prolly about 280 HP @ the engine. That is 140 HP gain, running at only 6 pounds of boost.........I am not an expert, just saying what I think from working on Honda engines.</STRONG>

Click to expand...

That you are not an expert is obvious from your post. Am I the only one who is gonna call BS on this claim?? I'm sorry, but the gains you talk about running only 6 psi are absurd!! The kits out for the GSR don't even give you that to the wheels at #s like 8 psi. Go get your car dyno'd and post the results. I can guarantee you, you will not put those #s to the ground at 6 psi.

Slapping a TD05-18G on a GSR running 8.5 lbs of boost will only yield 255 whp bro and you are telling me that with an oversized T3/T4 for your motor, you are putting out more than a GSR.......on top of that, doing it with less boost!!

I almost have to think you are joking I'm sorry, but I've seen too many dyno charts in my time and have run into too many boosted Si's, Integras, and the like to believe such a claim without some hardcore #s.

 

C

cougfan99

• Nov 11, 2001

• #18

Yes- no offense intended, but I too call BS on this one. The bottom line is that power is expensive, and doubling the hp from an engine with a simple bolt on kit and 6psi is absurd.

If power were that cheap and easy, every new car would have that system installed from the factory and the dealorship would make a killing off the markup.

I guarantee that the developement and production cost of the WRX engine far surpasses ours. Go to the Subaru homepage and "build" a WRX equipped similar to our car... I got an MSRP of 24K... that's a far cry from 18.5- so if people are talking about simple kits to gain major power, remember: things that seem too good to be true, probably are.

 

N

NC_MP3

Member

• Nov 11, 2001

• #19

Yeah OK, whatever. I can't say anything about MP3's or anything, but I can say s*** about Honda's cause I have been working on them since I was 16, I am 20 now. No, I haven't got my car dyno'd, but I have alot of friends, online and off and a few of them put the exact same kit on the exact same car with no other mods and got 265 @ the wheels. Don't believe me? Lemme dig up some posts on the Gen Drag 3 kit. You get what you pay for. I paid $3200 for the kit and got a very good quality kit, with a front mount intercooler, and yes the power is there. I beat a stock Z28 by about a car length. How much HP do they have? Like 300 + right? Don't say I am BSing when you have no clue what you are talking about. I am new with Mazda but Honda is what I grew up on.

 

N

NC_MP3

Member

• Nov 11, 2001

• #20

Oh, and if you didn't know the LS engine is far better than the GSR. Only thing GSR has going is the Vtec head. Why do you think people buy LS's and then put a Vtec head on it? Cause anything you do to an LS and a GSR, the LS will always yield more power. I am not gonna argue though. Why the hell you gotta start s*** for? Did I start anything with you? If you don't believe me then read the post and mind your own buissness.

But I am right.