A statement from Mazda about emissions

This was stated yesterday, I believe.

A number of Mazdas stakeholders have expressed concern as a result of the emissions scandal involving Volkswagens diesel vehicles in North America. Mazda would like to take this opportunity to give its view on this issue.

In compliance with the law, Mazda develops hardware and control software for both diesel and gasoline-powered vehicles in order to meet the regulations and standards of each country.

Mazda uses essentially the same system throughout the world, but some countries, like those in North America, have special regulations and modes due to differences in traffic flow. In these cases, Mazda may add hardware or software to meet regulations, always being careful to fully comply with the law.

Mazda's customers may rest assured that all of the company's vehicles are in full compliance with regulations.

Media reports on this issue have identified the following two problems as the reasons for emission levels being higher in real-world driving than they are when testing for certification.

1) The use of illegal software

2) Differences in driving modes* when testing and in real-world driving situations

* Vehicle speed, engine speed, slope inclination angle, engine temperature, etc.

In the first case, the computer program somehow detects that the engine is being tested and sacrifices fuel efficiency and driving performance in order to reduce emissions. Such a process is an infringement of the law.

In this situation, the illegal software does not operate during normal driving, resulting in a significant deterioration in emissions compared to when testing.

The authorities have accused Volkswagen of using such software. Mazda has never used such illegal software.

The second problem is caused by the difference between driving modes under testing and in real-world driving. Driving modes for homologation tests are established by the authorities in consideration of the characteristics of traffic flow in each country. When a vehicle is driven in the real world, it is possible for vehicle and engine speeds (rpm) to exceed those during testing. Also, the driver may brake and accelerate more frequently, and ascend steeper slopes than is done during testing. All of these factors will increase engine emissions.

This is the same reason there is a difference between catalogue fuel economy figures and those achieved in the real world. The principle applies to vehicles of any type, including diesel, gasoline and hybrid-powered vehicles, and in all regions.

In order to solve this problem, it is necessary to make the driving modes for homologation test as close as possible to real world driving. Authorities in each country are considering reviewing driving modes for testing, such as Worldwide harmonized Light duty Test Cycle (WLTC) and Real Driving Emissions (RDE).

As a carmaker, Mazda has a duty to continue developing technologies that enable it to comply with regulations tested by driving modes determined by the authorities, and to reduce emission volumes as much as possible during real-world driving. Mazda has always been aware of this responsibility and will continue to be aware of it in the future."

That's reassuring even though Mazda doesn't have any diesels in the US market (but it probably could have been stated much more clearly with half the number of words).

I think the image of diesel has been tarnished by the VW scandal. We may not see a diesel powered Mazda vehicle in the U.S. for a very long time. And with HCCI on the horizon it doesn't make financial sense to bring diesel technology to the U.S.

Yes, agreed.

But, it's good for us in Europe where most are diesels that they haven't cheated to the extreme of VW. My previous car was a VW Tiguan and that model is going to need a 'fix'

First we had the General Motors Debacle of extremely poor reliability which set back diesels the US for 30 years and now this from Europe. Hopefully when Mazda gets it all sorted out and meets US regulations, I'll be able to buy one that I can afford. Ed

prhac said:

But, it's good for us in Europe where most are diesels that they haven't cheated to the extreme of VW.

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I wouldn't call tuning the engine to pass the emissions test as "cheating" (at all). They have a defined goal to meet and they meet it. It's only cheating when the car runs a different program because it recognized it was being tested.

I think what will come out of this is changes in the test protocol, namely the tests will include a wider range of driving conditions. Of course that won't stop cheating of the VW type so there will also be more spot checking after manufacturers have certified a vehicle.

erhayes said:

First we had the General Motors Debacle of extremely poor reliability which set back diesels the US for 30 years and now this from Europe. Hopefully when Mazda gets it all sorted out and meets US regulations, I'll be able to buy one that I can afford. Ed

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I used to work for Chevrolet back in the early ‘80s. They tried stuffing diesels into anything, from pickups down to the lowly Chevette, which by the way wasn’t too bad using an Isuzu motor but it was still a Chevette. Ever since that time I always partnered GM with unreliability. Never cared for them and always tried to discourage others from buying the brand.

The English seem to have a different opinion than Mazda.
Read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-limit.html]this article frmo the Daily Mail:

Dr Tate, whose work is funded by the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs and local councils, has been monitoring diesel emissions on Britain’s roads for five years and has recorded more than one million cars

His latest research looked at the new Euro Six category diesel engines – which were introduced in September last year. He measured 300 of the newest diesel cars at six locations in England and Scotland over 20 days during the summer.

He found that on average, none of the manufacturers met the Euro Six regulations that state the engines must not produce more than 0.08 grams of NOx per kilometre.

Mazda’s engines emitted the most on average (0.49 grams per km) – 6.1 times the Euro limit. One of its vehicles was found to discharge 1.1 grams per km – 13.75 times the limit. Mazda was bettered by BMW (0.45 grams), Mercedes (0.42 grams), Volkswagen (0.41 grams) and Audi (0.36 grams).

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jev said:

The English seem to have a different opinion than Mazda.
Read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-limit.html]this article frmo the Daily Mail:

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This does not conflict with Mazda's statement.

The tests above that found all diesels emit more than the standard were done by driving the cars on actual roads. The standard is based on in-shop testing on a dyno. It is well recognized that the standard is a very gentle drive cycle, not what would be produced in real world testing. The regulators in various markets are looking to update the standard test procedure to make it more representative.

I asked the following on the UK Mazda Facebook page, and had a reply:-


Yesterday at 22:00

Dare I ask, how are we in Mazda land regards the diesel scandal as affecting VW. There is a report in the Daily Mail that Mazda diesel is one of the offenders.
1Like

Response as follows.....

Mazda UK Hi Alex, In compliance with the law, Mazda works hard to ensure that every petrol and diesel engine it makes fully complies with the regulations of the countries in which they are sold. Mazda never uses illegal software or defeat devices. You can rest assured that your car is fully compliant with all regulations.

The problems I have with this test (as with many others) is that there is no information whatsoever on what was actually tested under which conditions. That cars (all cars) emit more than in a lab setting though is not the issue. It is concerning that Mazda seems to be anything but "the cleanest" out there.

Anyway, all Mazda says in its press release is: "we don't cheat the VAG way". Great. In reality, Mazda seems to have developed the most efficient way of "legal cheating". Maybe I should've highlighted this phrase: "Mazda’s engines emitted the most on average (0.49 grams per km) – 6.1 times the Euro limit. ". Not "just as much as others", no, "the most".

Also, "technologies that enable it to comply with regulations tested by driving modes determined by the authorities" and "reduce emission volumes as much as possible during real-world driving" are two quite different things, now and in the foreseeable future. As illustrated by this "research".

The response alex1706 got from their PR-machine is a pretty typical political denial to answer the question. Mazda hides behind "the rulebook".

jev said:

The response alex1706 got from their PR-machine is a pretty typical political denial to answer the question. Mazda hides behind "the rulebook".

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This should surprise no one. Mazda is a private, for profit corporation, like all car makers. Their goal is to be competitive under the same rules/conditions that other makers are constrained by. If Mazda had a method to be even more competitive, either by increasing efficiency/power further and/or reducing emissions, they would do it. As long as they are not cheating like VW, I don't know why you would expect anything different.

Two further points:

1) The info you posted shows the Ford emitted 10% more nitrogen oxides every km vs. the Mazda.
2) Nitrogen oxides are not the only emitted pollutants of consequence. The Mazda could very well be lower on other pollutants.

All this means is the current testing methodology isn't applicable to real world emissions. Manufacturers are good at legally beating the current emissions test.

Testing needs revision and it will be revised.

inlinev said:

Testing needs revision and it will be revised.

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Agreed. And that is probably the best thing that will likely come out of this scandal. But if they don't simultaneously revise the acceptable limits upwards, it will kill off the diesel car.

I read in some German reports that manufacturers predict normal road driving to produce about 5 times the lab results required to confirm to Euro 5 and 6 so from 300 cars, only 5 came close to the lab results, the rest were around 5 x more. Manufactures simply point out out that this difference is down to the requirements for the test being so far from normal conditions.

The VW in question produced over 40x more Nitrogen Oxide on the road, which puts the Mazda result into complete insignificance.

Dr_Watson said:

The VW in question produced over 40x more Nitrogen Oxide on the road, which puts the Mazda result into complete insignificance.

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Did you read the article? That is 40 times over the US norm, not Euro5/6. The article states "The surprising finding for us was that even the Volkswagen engines were polluting 35 per cent less than other comparable cars".

As for Ford's position in the picture, I agree that looks like that at first sight is in contrary to the text. However, the part on Mazda being the worst of class is about Euro6, the results in the picture is on-the-road in absolute numbers, including Euro5, Euro4 or even Euro3 engined cars. Most diesel-mazda's will be relatively new since they where not that popular in the leasemarket. Therefore they are relatively clean compared to other brands but obviously not in comparison to the latest Euro6 compliant models from those other brands.

On a related issue, here is a picture showing true NOx emission versus norm:

Interestingly, Euro5 is "dirtier" than Euro4. Note however the emissions relatively becomes worse with each new norm.

Just for the sake of it... here's the same picture for petrol cars:

jev said:

Did you read the article? That is 40 times over the US norm, not Euro5/6. The article states "The surprising finding for us was that even the Volkswagen engines were polluting 35 per cent less than other comparable cars".

As for Ford's position in the picture, I agree that looks like that at first sight is in contrary to the text. However, the part on Mazda being the worst of class is about Euro6, the results in the picture is on-the-road in absolute numbers, including Euro5, Euro4 or even Euro3 engined cars. Most diesel-mazda's will be relatively new since they where not that popular in the leasemarket. Therefore they are relatively clean compared to other brands but obviously not in comparison to the latest Euro6 compliant models from those other brands.

On a related issue, here is a picture showing true NOx emission versus norm:

Interestingly, Euro5 is "dirtier" than Euro4. Note however the emissions relatively becomes worse with each new norm.

Just for the sake of it... here's the same picture for petrol cars:

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Your right, it was the US norm. I cant find the article anymore, it compared US to Euro 5 and 6.