New to the CX-5 and AWD. New 5 with about 1000 mi. For the first time I was in AWD conditions and gave the CX a little kick to see how it would go. I heard a small clunk sound. So was that the AWD engaging? Is it seamless or does it go in and out ? Should I hear anything?
AWD question
- Thread starter Martyd
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- CX-5
We have a little incline on our property that is greasy due to rain. New CX-5 crawled up with no fanfare or complaints.
Oldengineer
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- CX-5 Touring AWD
I've got a 2015 with AWD. The one time I'm sure it kicked into AWD, there was no noise at all.
Regards:
Oldengineer
Regards:
Oldengineer
capnfatpants
Member
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- 2015 CX-5 Touring AWD
I also heard an odd sound when I was sloshing through some slush (2015 touring). I think that was the first time I was driving when I was sure the AWD kicked in. There should be some sort of indication that it's on, as well as a way to manually turn it on for days when it's snowy everywhere and you don't want to wait the 2 seconds for it to kick on. two seconds is a long time when you've lost traction. Also, how long does it stay on?
2 seconds??? Where did you hear that? From my experience, and from videos on YouTube, it's more like a fraction of a second... It's probably more along the lines of a certain amount of front wheel slip, like half a turn or somthing like that, not a time delay.
capnfatpants
Member
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- 2015 CX-5 Touring AWD
That's what the dealer said... He said it in passing, I assumed he knew what he was talking about. He also told me the stereo was good. Live and learn. Is there any documentation on when it does kick in?
Sorry folks I dropped the ball on this.
So I went to the dealer. They checked and test drove. I was told all was fine and could I try to get the 5 to them during AWD conditions. I said I would.
We finally got some snow and I took the 5 for a test drive. No matter how hard I tried, no clunk. The 5 performed great. My first AWD auto and I was very pleased. So now what? I know it happened twice and thought I had a little chatter on a wet slope.
I'm hoping that whatever it was came on the first AWD engagements and now that very important part has seated itself where it belongs. I will continue to test.
So I went to the dealer. They checked and test drove. I was told all was fine and could I try to get the 5 to them during AWD conditions. I said I would.
We finally got some snow and I took the 5 for a test drive. No matter how hard I tried, no clunk. The 5 performed great. My first AWD auto and I was very pleased. So now what? I know it happened twice and thought I had a little chatter on a wet slope.
I'm hoping that whatever it was came on the first AWD engagements and now that very important part has seated itself where it belongs. I will continue to test.
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Never assume the dealer knows what they're talking about!
Oldengineer
Member
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- CX-5 Touring AWD
I have 2 CUVs with this type of AWD system. They react in milliseconds, not 2 seconds. On my Mazda, the one time I'm sure it kicked in, the front wheels didn't even make a full revolution before the rears went into action to get me up a steep hill on a wet street. My other vehicle, with about 100 more HP than the Mazda, has, on two occasions, chirped all 4 wheels together, when I hit the throttle heavy to get on to an interstate. Neither vehicle has an indicator that the AWD has engaged - its not needed. The systems keep the AWD engaged as long as they detect any slippage of the front wheels of the Mazda, or, the rear wheels on my other vehicle. Your salesman is misinformed. I had two Jaguar X-Types with AWD that used a transfer case with a dynamic fluid clutch (basically a mechanical system with no electronics involved to transfer power ), and, even they would react to wheel slippage faster than 2 seconds and transfer power to the front wheels.
Regards:
Oldengineer
Sorry but the CX-5 isn't very good compared to an Xtrail.
Xtrail WILL engage in less than one revolution of the fronts slipping, and they publish this in the brochure.
And also have FWD, AUTO, LOCK options.
My CX-5 certainly doesn't, from experience pulling a caravan of wet grass, virtually flat, the front wheels were actually slipping before the rears cut in and traction took up. I've also had TC cut in a couple of times which suggests the AWD was too slow to engage.
And there is very little information given by Mazda, nothing really in the present brochure.
Which is probably why the due out model has an improved AWD system.
Kuga does have a screen display showing which wheel is being driven which should be on the Mazda IMO, in the UK all CX-5 cars have a screen.
I'm on my forth AWD car now, one permanent, the other three auto engagement which I prefer.
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TC engages when wheels slip unevenly, whether it's 2 or 4 wheels. TC does not indicate AWD is not on. AWD is not magic either, it doubles your traction, but it does not bring it up to infinity. Wheels can slip even under AWD.
To get out of where I work I have a half mile straight private road covered in hard packed snow (almost ice). For fun I often gun it just to get a feel for the car under these conditions. I feel AWD engaging in a few tenths of a second, probably not even a full front wheel revolution. TC is often active almost all the way down the road (remember, I'm full throttle). I still manage to get up to a pretty good speed. With my old Protege 5 FWD with similar tires, it would take forever just to get off the line under these conditions.
The CX-5 AWD might not be as good as the xtrail, I don't know, but it certainly is not bad.
I do deplore Mazda's lack of transparency on their AWD system too though...
I'm not saying the AWD system is bad, it does work.
It did get me of the wet grass after some front wheel spin, no TC light on that occasion, I think there's a switch to turn that off but I've never used it.
But I never had any wheel spin with the XT towing so that's what I'm basing my judgement on.
The first model xtrail T30 up to 2007, is around the same as my CX-5 with a slight delay before AWD is engaged. The second model XT from 2007 to 2013 was more advanced in that Nissan claimed the AWD cut in under one revolution of the front slippage being detected.
Apparently the VW Tiguan is 10% to the rears permanently, and a 2013 sets off in AWD and reverts back to FWD if conditions allow.
If anyone has any links to the upcoming CX-5 system I would appreciate it.
Absolutely! I've run into a lot of red neck types around here that think the old school 4x4's are better than the modern AWD systems but they have no experience with modern AWD systems. I've driven all kinds of 4x4's over the last 35 years including Jeeps, Toyotas, Nissans, Fords and Chevrolets as well as AWD systems from Subaru, Volvo and Mazda. As an avid snow skier and off-road driver in the very slippery, rocky and muddy PNW since I was 17 or 18 years old, I've been in plenty of positions, winter and summer, where I could no longer make forward progress up a hill so I know how these systems behave when you need them.
Most off-road newbies are shocked to learn how easily they can get stuck, regardless of their 4 wheel drive (which is not really 4 wheel drive except on the most purpose built rock-crawler with full locking differentials front and rear) which is impractical for normal transportation. Then there is the AWD systems that use a viscous coupling in the transfer case.
I actually prefer Mazda's computer controlled implementation of AWD using wet clutch packs over ANY 4WD or AWD with a standard viscous coupling I've driven because it can be left engaged and cuts in as needed. Any delay is measured in milliseconds. The primary limitation of the CX-5 AWD system is that it will transfer a maximum of 50% of the torque to the rear wheels. Normally, one would never notice this but one situation where it may be noticeable is if a trailer with a high tongue weight is transferring weight from the front to the rear wheels or you are on a steep slope and front traction is very limited. I will point out that AWD's with viscous couplings between front and rear have this same limitation, only worse. That's because the transfer case acts like an open differential (except between the front/rear). This means torque gets transferred away from the end that has traction and towards the wheels that are already spinning, exactly the opposite of what you want.
The computer controlled AWD works opposite of this, the torque is transferred to the wheels that need it the most (but only up to 50% rear). Any time delay is inconsequential. If front wheel slippage is obvious it is because the AWD clutches have already transferred the maximum torque to the rear wheels but the hill is steep or the load is high and the power was applied too suddenly. The secret is a little driver skill, apply power gently and let the 50% torque to the rear wheels work it's magic, applying additional power will simply cause the front to spin faster and add extra wear to the clutch packs. This type of system is very capable but is not designed for pedal to the metal, ham fisted driving. It does work well in conjunction with the traction control system because it will detect excessive wheel spin and reduce power automatically. Don't think you should turn traction control off!
My experience exactly! Especially on particularly slippery ice the CX-5 will accelerate harder and maintain more composure than either 4WD or most AWD's with a viscous coupling. There are more sophisticated and more expensive AWD systems using a viscous coupling and computer controlled torque transfer that can out perform the CX-5 in pure acceleration or steep climbing but these systems cost more, weigh more, take up more room, are not as efficient and are more expensive to work on. But in typical icy conditions where an experienced driver will drive smoothly and judiciously, the CX-5 is very capable and maintains skid-free control right up there with the best of them. And you would have to do something pretty stupid to actually get stuck.
I've never driven an xtrail but I thought it was marketed more as a light off-road vehicle. I doubt it would maintain control as well on very slippery icy roads. The CX-5's AWD system has excellent sensitivity and lightning fast reaction which translates to effortless driving. In most cases you will not even feel the AWD working except that you will maintain traction in situations where a 2WD vehicle (and many 4WD and other AWD systems) would break into a slide.
I think AWD in general is over-rated. I'll take winter tires and driver skill over AWD every time. AWD is just one tool of many in your toolbox.
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Pulling a caravan is an extreme edge case. If the front wheels have close to zero grip at a standing start, then anything less than the absolute maximum amount of torque sent to the back wheels isn't going to be able to overcome the inertia of the extra weight. If the Xtrail comes on to maximum torque sent to the back quickly/aggressively, that is great for that particular use case, but does not represent real-world on-road usage or responsiveness of the AWD system.
If you want to appreciate how quickly the AWD kicks in for the Mazda, you could recreate the drive home from work I had yesterday...... a few centimetres of semi-wet snow sitting on top of ice. Too much throttle through a corner and the back end instantly slips out just a touch as the rear wheels kick in. Absolutely no understeer as the front wheels spin alone, no imaginary two second delay, little-to-no TCS light - just instant application of power to the back wheels.
There is no perceptible delay for the CX-5 AWD to kick in, it's virtually instantaneous. There is video proof in the link below.
Realize that this link is a Subaru marketing video. While the "certified" test really was done by an independent agency, it's apparent that they were paid by Subaru and Subaru designed the specifics of the test. The independent agency did not certify that the test was a valid test of the relative performance of each vehicles AWD system. Also note that the Mazda appears to have the most sensitive AWD system as evidenced by the very smooth and slow speed spinning of all four tires simultaneously. If the tire rubber compound was good on wet polyethylene, the CX-5 would have been right up and over as evidenced by the very smooth and controlled spinning motion of all 4 tires.
As it is, this is a very good test of how each vehicles OEM tire rubber compound performs on wet polyethylene and a very poor test of the performance of each vehicles AWD system (although it is photographic proof the CX-5 AWD does not have perceptible delay before driving all 4 wheels).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=med9V-vO9d0
