Larger oil filter option/s in here.

S

SayNoToPistons

Wheels, not rims...
:
CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
The OEM sizing for the CX-5 in Mobil-1's part number is a M1-108. Quite a small filter. It is also the same for the RX-8. It is a common practice to find the biggest fitting oil filter for obvious reasons. With that said, a Mobil-1 M1-110 will fit perfectly fine. I have done it for years on my RX-8 and so have many. The male oil adapter for the RX-8 and CX-5 is the same. I test fitted one of my extra M1-110's today and it was perfect with zero clearance issues with the underbody aero cladding/s.

I am using Mobil-1's part number as an example because it is proven to be of the highest build quality and the best filtrating oil filter. If you wish to use other brands and models, search for models that fit the Infiniti/Nissan VQ35 engine as they use the M1-110.
 
SayNoToPistons said:
The OEM sizing for the CX-5 in Mobil-1's part number is a M1-108. Quite a small filter. It is also the same for the RX-8. It is a common practice to find the biggest fitting oil filter for obvious reasons. With that said, a Mobil-1 M1-110 will fit perfectly fine. I have done it for years on my RX-8 and so have many. The male oil adapter for the RX-8 and CX-5 is the same. I test fitted one of my extra M1-110's today and it was perfect with zero clearance issues with the underbody aero cladding/s.

I am using Mobil-1's part number as an example because it is proven to be of the highest build quality and the best filtrating oil filter. If you wish to use other brands and models, search for models that fit the Infiniti/Nissan VQ35 engine as they use the M1-110.
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Sounds like the perfect excuse for Mazda to deny an engine warranty claim.
 
Been about 9 years since owners have been using the over-sized M110 filter and no reports of any troubles with warranty claims or even denial of engine replacements based on any non-OEM sized oil filters. Not to mention the Magnusson-Moss Act where the manufacturer/dealer must provide proof that a specific "aftermarket part" caused need for repairs. The oil filter is not substantially larger either. There should be zero reasons why a dealer would deny any warranty claim in association with the oil filter.
 
SayNoToPistons said:
There should be zero reasons why a dealer would deny any warranty claim in association with the oil filter.
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Agreed. There should also be zero reason why a different oil filter would provide ANY benefit.

I bought the CX-5 because I believe Mazda has some of the most talented automotive engineers in the world. Without evidence to the contrary. I assume they understand the filtration requirements of their engine.
 
MikeM. said:
Agreed. There should also be zero reason why a different oil filter would provide ANY benefit.

I bought the CX-5 because I believe Mazda has some of the most talented automotive engineers in the world. Without evidence to the contrary. I assume they understand the filtration requirements of their engine.
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amen!
 
As an engineer that has done countless thermofluid dynamics lab analysis on oils, it is quite obvious to me that a larger capacity oil filter will ultimately and SIMPLY provides more filtration given the larger filter element area, not to mention increase in oil capacity. We have gone as far as sending oil samples to third party oil analysis laboratories The benefits might be insignificant, but it is there and can be had without addition cost.

The reason why Mazda engineers chose the oil filter sizing of M108 on the M1 filter is one size fit for most of their engines and that of course as to do with bulk parts costs and spacing of the oil filter surroundings. For an RX8, an enlarged M110 will provide less spacing, making it slightly more difficult to remove by hand. Same applies for various Mazda engines ranging from their dated MZR to the SkyA-G line.

Why you guys don't understand is beyond me.

Sample report here of our oil analysis using an ICP (inductive coupled plasma) spectrometry.

94912d1172777590-blackstone-labs-results-w0w-oils-jpg
 
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SayNoToPistons said:
The benefits might be insignificant, but it is there and can be had without addition cost.
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Which raises the question:

If the "benefits" are insignificant, how can they be considered a "benefit"?

Why you guys don't understand is beyond me.
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What I understand is that I've used the factory recommended oil filter on all my cars, trucks, motorcycles, lawn mowers, generators and pressure washers for over 30 years without a problem. Wait, scratch that, my lawn mower and pressure washer don't even have oil filters.

When I was 19 years old, I wanted to make everything better. Gradually I learned the wise adage: If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.
 
Don't mind Mike, he isn't shy about trying to tell a lot of people he thinks they are not as "wise" as he thinks he is. Usually people grow out of that around 19 but he hasn't grown out of it yet. :)
 
Regardless, I will use only Mazda-specified oil filter in my CX-5. Insignificant and questionable gains aren't worth the bother and/or risk.
 
Buger said:
Don't mind Mike, he isn't shy about trying to tell a lot of people he thinks they are not as "wise" as he thinks he is. Usually people grow out of that around 19 but he hasn't grown out of it yet. :)
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(rlaugh) (rolleyes)


You are paying the same price for a smaller filter. The reason why Mazda uses 108 sizing on almost all of their cars is merely bulk buying prices and the fact that the 108 is the filter that fits all platforms with ease (no clearance issues). They don't make their own oil filters (obviously), they buy them, hence buying more of one size is more cost effective for them. So why pay more for a smaller filter? This not only applies for Mazda, but every damn manufacturer.

I am talking about a 20% higher area of filter media (more contaminate capacity), increased oil sump capacity, and most importantly allowing less oil pressure drop and time in bypass by lowering face velocity. The spring loaded bypass in the oil filter opens so the oil can bypass the filter and continue through the galley. The necessity of the bypass is so the flow stays somewhat constant and to prevent filter media damage blowout. This applies especially for cold oil as it is more viscous. Pressure drop of a usual dirty oil filter can be anywhere from 10psi to much as 20psi at cruising low load RPM's of ~2500-3000rpm on any given 4cyl engine. Normally cruise oil pressure of the MZR 4cyl is around 70-80psi, and ~80psi for cold starts. So the difference is there.

If anyone can come up with any valid concerns or disadvantages of using a larger filter, please feel free to post as I would like to see what they might be. I know there are fellow engineers out there on this forum. I'll be sticking with my larger filters in the future and might even try an M-104. Just giving out proven info to the community and it's ultimately your decision to do this "mod".
 
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SayNoToPistons said:
If anyone can come up with any valid concerns or disadvantages of using a larger filter, please feel free to post as I would like to see what they might be.
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The extra weight will lower my MPGs and also will throw the balance of the car off, reducing sharp corner handling at speeds over 175.
 
Lol at mike... Same old...

More filter area, slightly more oil capacity, will help to keep oil temps slightly cooler... Not a huge thing again, but for the same price you might as well... As long as it screws on, seals, and is at least as large as stock go for it...
 
apexanimal said:
More filter area, slightly more oil capacity, will help to keep oil temps slightly cooler...
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More oil capacity? Wow, if the engine could benefit from more oil capacity it would have been a simple matter for Mazda engineers to design in an extra gallon or two. Now that would be a significant difference. Cooler oil temps? LOL!

As long as it screws on, seals, and is at least as large as stock go for it...
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Probably correct - but I don't know every detail of the technologies incorporated into this thoroughly modern engine and how it monitors oil pressure, etc. I do know it's designed to have very low pumping losses but I'm not sure exactly how that was achieved.

For me, the bottom line is the engine has been thoroughly tested with the Mazda recommended oil filter in place and I am most comfortable with that. It makes no difference to me (zero) if you or anyone else thinks you can "one-up" Mazda engineers. I'm just sharing the reasons why I see no reason trying to fix something that's not broken.
 
Mazda engineers are the Gods of all things mechanical... lol. Come on, now. Cx-5 isn't built to be the greatest mechanical marvel on earth. It's designed and built to make money. They have to make decisions based on practicality and profit, just like all mfgs not run by the government. lol Seriously, I like Mazda and their engines... which is why I bought another one. BUT.... I could list a number of things on my 5 where they either screwed up or cut corners in the suspension dept. TSBs and notorious issues don't happen because they "chose wisely" 100% of the time.

Nobody suggested that the OEM filter was junk. It's probably a good filter, but it's not magic because it came from Mazda. If you can use a larger filter (of the same quality or better), what's wrong with that? Then again, maybe the Mazda engineers spent too much time making a perfect filter when they should have been reading books on how to build and install a hood. :)

btw, there are reasons to "upgrade" the oil and filter system, regardless the mfg. Use in dirty environments, towing, racing, extended oil change intervals, etc. In some applications it makes sense to use anything possible to improve what's designed for "normal" consumer use. Sometimes, things don't have to be broken...
 
mr.fusion said:
Mazda engineers are the Gods of all things mechanical... lol.
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No, I didn't mean to imply Mazda engineers are Gods... but my money says the engineers who designed the lubrication system know more about it than Internet experts who dream up ways that might improve the lubrication system.

I could list a number of things on my 5 where they either screwed up or cut corners in the suspension dept.
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Right. Mazda screwed up and cut so many corners on the suspension that it is widely acclaimed as the best handling compact SUV in the world.

TSBs and notorious issues don't happen because they "chose wisely" 100% of the time.
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I agree, no car is without faults. But there is not a shred of evidence that the CX-5 engine would benefit from a different oil filter.


Nobody suggested that the OEM filter was junk. It's probably a good filter, but it's not magic because it came from Mazda.
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But no one suggested the OEM filter was "magic".

If you can use a larger filter (of the same quality or better), what's wrong with that?
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Nothing is wrong with that as far as I know. But I don't claim to know every detail about how the lubrication system is designed. That's why I'll be sticking with the filter recommended by Mazda.

Then again, maybe the Mazda engineers spent too much time making a perfect filter when they should have been reading books on how to build and install a hood. :)
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Mazda doesn't make the filter, they farm it out to outside manufacturers. But they do design the specifications. For example, this would include the specification for the oil pressure at which the oil bypass valve is activated. I simply do not have the time or resources to investigate filters designed for other engines to verify they use the same bypass pressures, etc. I'm not saying they are not the same, I'm saying I don't know. That's why I use the one recommended by Mazda.


btw, there are reasons to "upgrade" the oil and filter system, regardless the mfg. Use in dirty environments, towing, racing, extended oil change intervals, etc. In some applications it makes sense to use anything possible to improve what's designed for "normal" consumer use.
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I would not recommend using extended oil change intervals simply because I installed a bigger filter. That will void the warranty if you have internal failure that can be attributed to insufficient lubrication. Also, there are severe service recommendations for CX-5's that are used for towing, high speed driving, dusty environments, etc. Installing a bigger oil filter is not a pass to ignore severe service requirements. All manufacturers test their engines under severe conditions and they use the OEM oil filter for their torture testing. I have complete confidence the OEM filter is more than adequate.

Others are (of course) free to come to their own conclusions.
 
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MikeM. said:
my money says

widely acclaimed as the best handling compact SUV in the world.

But there is not a shred of evidence that the CX-5 engine would benefit from a different oil filter.

Mazda doesn't make the filter, they farm it out to outside manufacturers.

I would not recommend using extended oil change intervals simply because I installed a bigger filter.

I have complete confidence the OEM filter is more than adequate.

Others are (of course) free to come to their own conclusions.
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Nothing special about the CX5... basic filter and oil principles apply. It's not a radical new idea. Mazda doesn't actually make the filters. Umm, that was sarcasm. BTW, Mazda5 is notorious for it's suspension issues. I didn't say handling was a problem. Read up on it.

You are determined to miss the point, or simply argue for the sake of arguing. Picking apart statements while avoiding the main point is childish internet BS. The very fact that vehicle use dictates the maintenance schedule, indicates that it would be beneficial to improve the oil/filter system in all situations, IF POSSIBLE. Plenty of obsessed people and companies have their research claiming it is possible. As with most things, there are companies dedicated to doing the research to make a better mousetrap.

You want to stick to the script, fine... we get it... you are the one that reads and follows all directions and safety guidelines. Free to come to their own conclusions? Doesn't sound like it.
 
For the record, I think the OEM oil is very good, based on independent testing I've seen on the internet, thanks to those who are obsessed with oil and go so far as to send in samples for analysis, trace who makes what brand oil, etc. Another 0-20 oil reported to be very good is Toyota synthetic. Neither company makes the oil of course, and they are not the only source of quality oil, of course. Royal Purple and Amsoil also have very good oil.... dare I say perhaps better than OEM. I wouldn't use any oil that is questionable or can't be traced to the mfg.

Filters are the same. OEM are fine, and aftermarket filters vary. Some are cheap junk, but no doubt some are equal to, or better than, OEM.
 
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Mikes one line: Mazda engineers did everything so well, there's no way you can improve upon it... Except for he wheels... And tires...

;)

Okay
 
apexanimal said:
Mikes one line: Mazda engineers did everything so well, there's no way you can improve upon it... Except for he wheels... And tires...

;)

Okay
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No, I don't believe that (nor did I imply that).

But before I assume a filter from another application will provide better results, I need testing and data to back up those claims. I am not swayed by the armchair philosophers argument that it has to be better because it's bigger (particularly when there's no evidence the OEM filter is not up to the job). And no one has provided data that shows the two filter's bypass valves have the same blow-off design pressure. They are designed for two different engines and I have no data showing they are the same. Is the other filter suitable? Probably, very likely even. But I know the one specified by Mazda is. Which one do I choose? The one without unknowns.

Why does my pragmatism chafe you so much that you feel the need to mischaracterize my words?
 
The data is out there if you really want it. Like I said, some people are obsessed with oil and filters. They HAVE researched all the oils, cut open filters, sent out oil to the labs.... and have been doing it for a long time. I haven't done it myself, but I can learn something from those that do. For example, check out bobistheoilguy.com. When I had the Mazda5, I could also see what the Mazda3 guys were doing with the 2.3l whether it's fluids, tuning, air flow... whatever. The guys who race their cars, or modify them, or are simply obsessed.... are a valuable resource IMO.

Companies like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Lucas, Purolator, etc are the specialists. Not everything is as good as advertised, of course, but these guys have a vested interest in providing top of the line performance products, and there is testing/data from independent sources to back it up.

If you could take the OEM filter and double the size, it would improve flow and also increase capacity/life while maintaining the exact same filtration ability. Or you could have the same exact flow rate, with improved filtration. FWIW, I used Wix filters and Mobil1 full synthetic in my Mazda5, changed at 10K intervals, and it ran like new when I sold it w/230,000 miles.
 
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