I recently installed a 6000k conversion kit (http://www.extremebrightleds.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=R-HID-H11) They are great and I love the look, but I constantly get brighted. I know HID are a lot brighter then halogen, does the projectors affect the brightness? If I went down to a 5000k bulb anyone think it would help(I don't think so, from reading they are still the same brightness just a different light output). Any thoughts?
Constantly getting brighted with HID conversion kit
- Thread starter 13CX5GS
- Start date
Most likely it is a result of your vehicle not having an auto leveler or a hard shutter cut off. In the US, the reason why most HID conversion kits say "For off road use only" is because of the legal requirement to have the auto leveler to keep from blinding oncoming traffic. I have a kit similar to yours on one of my other cars and you have to aim them low to keep from offending oncoming traffic. On my CX-5 with the factory HID and my Audi I don't have the issue since the light is kept out of their faces.
I don't think changing the color of the light would keep people from being annoyed, you can try re-aiming them if it doesn't compromise the visibility, otherwise I think you are stuck with either being flashed or switching back.
David
I don't think changing the color of the light would keep people from being annoyed, you can try re-aiming them if it doesn't compromise the visibility, otherwise I think you are stuck with either being flashed or switching back.
David
changing the color won't do anything.
also, some people just like to flash.
my two pennies worth: triple check the height alignment. you want about a 2" vertical drop per 20ft distance. line up to a bare wall, mark the center line of the lights, back up 20ft, and adjust for a two inch drop from the cutoff.
also, some people just like to flash.
my two pennies worth: triple check the height alignment. you want about a 2" vertical drop per 20ft distance. line up to a bare wall, mark the center line of the lights, back up 20ft, and adjust for a two inch drop from the cutoff.
I think there could be a couple of explanations for this. The first is that the bulbs aren't seated properly. The second has to do with the lens optics. The projector lens on halogen differ from that of hid in the way the the light is being projected. I'm sure the cars coming twds you are seeing scattered light rather than a well defined sharp cut off that you would get with a proper hid lens.
Suddueth13
Member
- :
- 2011 Mazda 2 Sport, 1987 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II
Lens has nothing to do with it. Both halogen and HID projectors use fresnal lenses. The difference is in the bowl optics of the projector. Halogen projectors are designed to use with halogen light source and positioning. A xenon bulb changes the position of the arc. This can result in further distorting cutoff. They also use a different squirrel finder than the HID versions which bleeds light above to cutoff to illuminate overhead signs. Likely it's allowing too much light above the cutoff. Lets see an output picture against a wall at about 25 feet back.
Suddeth13 is totally right about the difference in light sources moving the focal point from the filament and distorting the cut off. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#Retrofitment I usually don't point people to Wikipedia, but this article agrees with me and has its sources in line)
I am not so sure about the use of fresnel lenses since all 'Projector beam' headlights I have taken apart use an ellipsoidal reflector and a condenser (plano-convex) lens (hence the bubble look of the headlight vs the old school flat sealed beam lamps) with a shade near the image plane to form the cut off (Similar to how we use internal shutters on stage to shape ERS Beams). Modern headlamps are specifically designed to work with light originating from a specific point (the filament @ the focal point) which is in a different position and usually a different orientation on a Metal-halide Arc Lamp (referred to as Xenon or HID Lamps). Since the source of light is no longer at the focal point, the image plane moves and the cut off shade is rendered useless (causing bleed, etc... as rmac pointed out).
The only options you have to avoid the pissing off oncoming traffic or getting pulled over are
1.) Follow njaremka's direction and repoint the headlights (this is what some time ago since both of the above have happened to me in my retrofitted car)
2.) Look into Halogen bulbs which are closer to white and still have the proper filament placement so that the cut off works. -Sylvania makes the SilverStar zXe and Hella also has some reliable Halogen lamps which are closer to the 5000K or 6000K you are looking for.
Good luck,
David
P.S. Sorry for the excessive use of () and ...
I am not so sure about the use of fresnel lenses since all 'Projector beam' headlights I have taken apart use an ellipsoidal reflector and a condenser (plano-convex) lens (hence the bubble look of the headlight vs the old school flat sealed beam lamps) with a shade near the image plane to form the cut off (Similar to how we use internal shutters on stage to shape ERS Beams). Modern headlamps are specifically designed to work with light originating from a specific point (the filament @ the focal point) which is in a different position and usually a different orientation on a Metal-halide Arc Lamp (referred to as Xenon or HID Lamps). Since the source of light is no longer at the focal point, the image plane moves and the cut off shade is rendered useless (causing bleed, etc... as rmac pointed out).
The only options you have to avoid the pissing off oncoming traffic or getting pulled over are
1.) Follow njaremka's direction and repoint the headlights (this is what some time ago since both of the above have happened to me in my retrofitted car)
2.) Look into Halogen bulbs which are closer to white and still have the proper filament placement so that the cut off works. -Sylvania makes the SilverStar zXe and Hella also has some reliable Halogen lamps which are closer to the 5000K or 6000K you are looking for.
Good luck,
David
P.S. Sorry for the excessive use of () and ...
I am sensitive to light and driving at night kills when people have HID conversions. I do love the look and see great behind the wheel. But I am always blinded by oncoming traffic. I will never do this. Please aim them low not to blind other drivers. The CX5 headlamps are, imo,at the perfect height to see without going into people's mirrors. There are ways, and tools, that you can adjust the direction of light given off.
I wish more people were sensitive to other drivers with their outlandish HID kit's that blind everyone on the road. Esp true for NYC drivers who have not only high glare HID's but HID foglights as well that put light everywhere but the road.
Thanks da5id, and everyone else for their input.
I have thought about possibly leaving them as is and dealing with the brighting but don't want to piss off drivers, or perhaps cause and accident or something.
I may try to lower the light a little, or may just put them up for sale and buy a set of halogens(SilverStar zXe) I had a pair on our last car and really liked them.
So if anyone is interested in a set keep your eye on the FS forum. I will also post here to let you know if they go up.
bushidoboy
Member
- :
- CX-5 GT
Is it the silver nut on the back of the elongated part of the housing? Do you have photos of the nut, I couldnt find the instructions in the manual. The nut seems hard to move and didn't seem to make a difference
That's the one. You won't notice a difference unless you're parked at least 20 feet away from a wall, even then you'll have to turn it several times before you see the light move significantly. I think I turned mine 6 full rotations, so like 24 quarter turns with my little wrench.
Id love to see proof that the HID and halogen projectors are different. Different part numbers and visual comparisons.
There has always been internet forum knowitall chatter about how aftermarket HIDs will kill babies and cause other cars to burst into flames. Ive never seen a lick of proof, especially with projector housings.
Light is light, and all projector housings have cutoffs. In the age of economies of scale and globalized production, I doubt that mazda designs 2 completely different projector housings for HID and halogens.
There has always been internet forum knowitall chatter about how aftermarket HIDs will kill babies and cause other cars to burst into flames. Ive never seen a lick of proof, especially with projector housings.
Light is light, and all projector housings have cutoffs. In the age of economies of scale and globalized production, I doubt that mazda designs 2 completely different projector housings for HID and halogens.
usually the only difference between hid and halogen projectors is the design of the bowl, the halogen bowl looks to focus the light more and the hid reflector spreads it out more which it can because of the greater amount of lumens
Here is an example of differences between HID projector and halogen (H7) projector taken from SAME cars (Toyota Avensis).
Lens-cutoff shield distance is same
Lenses are identical
HID reflector is much larger than halogen.
Cutoff shields are almost same except the width.
Output comparison. D2S is in the halogen projector to judge fairly.
Here is an example of differences between HID projector and halogen (H7) projector taken from SAME cars (Toyota Avensis).
Lens-cutoff shield distance is same
Lenses are identical
HID reflector is much larger than halogen.
Cutoff shields are almost same except the width.
Output comparison. D2S is in the halogen projector to judge fairly.
<EDIT>
Disclaimer: Not to speak for everyone, but most of us speed, most of us roll a stop sign every now and then, have illegal tint, HID conversions, etc... No one is saying that it is WRONG to have an HID conversion, but it should be done right and minimize the impact on other drivers (which the OP 13CX5GS is trying to do). The on topic responses relate to getting reactions from drivers in the opposing traffic lanes. Now, here is my nerdy response to fill in some more details.
</EDIT>
Thanks mx-p5
Great pictures showing the different reflectors needed to compensate for the filament vs arc placement difference so that the cut off can be kept in the same place. I guess we would be the "knowitall"s that Evan55 is referring to.
Evan55,
I don't know about killing babies or catching cars on fire but retrofitted Halogen/HIDs can shine in people's eyes and can be unsafe as a result. I have spent years working with projector lamp assemblies in Automobile and Stage lighting and the difference (while it might be subtle) is a big one between Halogen assemblies and HID assemblies. (NHTSA Calls the differences photometry requirements - Lens + Lamp + Reflector certified together) Google is your friend if you want to learn about the difference between the "Light", how Lenses work, and why lamps are not always so easily interchangeable without other adjustments.
Oh, and yes, they most certainly do design two sets of headlights for the Halogens and HIDs.
Part numbers for our CX-5
Headlight Assembly
Halogen $318
R - KD3151031D
L - KD3151041D
HID $726
R - KD3351031D
L - KD3351041D
According to my friend Nate at my dealer's parts department the two units are very different (partly due to the system that turns the headlight with the car and partly because of the HID). They look quite different on the parts blow up for sure, but I don't have a picture to show you. I suggest a trip to your dealer to confirm if you don't believe me
(or you can call Mazda corporate and get to a technical specialist for an explanation 800-222-5500)
I think this was covered elsewhere in the forums as well
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-are-illegal&p=2399920&viewfull=1#post2399920
Some other explanations:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5n38wDe684
Every couple of years there is a crackdown where cops pull people over and NHTSA starts having customs turn away shipments (I have a retrofitted car and have been pulled over as well before I re-aimed my lights and after)
http://www.sema.org/files/attachmen...-eNews-May07-Lighting-HID-Conversion-Kits.pdf
http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/41/customs-seizing-imports-of-illegal-hid-conversion-kits
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html
The Law they reference (also there is one about color, but that one is less common depending on your state)
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/VI/A/301/II/30122
Too bad you can't even consider yourself safe with "DOT Approved" claims since those usually reference the whole system including the reflector, lens, and light source (when the retrofit kit only has the source included)
Best Regards,
David
Disclaimer: Not to speak for everyone, but most of us speed, most of us roll a stop sign every now and then, have illegal tint, HID conversions, etc... No one is saying that it is WRONG to have an HID conversion, but it should be done right and minimize the impact on other drivers (which the OP 13CX5GS is trying to do). The on topic responses relate to getting reactions from drivers in the opposing traffic lanes. Now, here is my nerdy response to fill in some more details.
</EDIT>
Thanks mx-p5
Great pictures showing the different reflectors needed to compensate for the filament vs arc placement difference so that the cut off can be kept in the same place. I guess we would be the "knowitall"s that Evan55 is referring to.
Evan55,
I don't know about killing babies or catching cars on fire but retrofitted Halogen/HIDs can shine in people's eyes and can be unsafe as a result. I have spent years working with projector lamp assemblies in Automobile and Stage lighting and the difference (while it might be subtle) is a big one between Halogen assemblies and HID assemblies. (NHTSA Calls the differences photometry requirements - Lens + Lamp + Reflector certified together) Google is your friend if you want to learn about the difference between the "Light", how Lenses work, and why lamps are not always so easily interchangeable without other adjustments.
Oh, and yes, they most certainly do design two sets of headlights for the Halogens and HIDs.
Part numbers for our CX-5
Headlight Assembly
Halogen $318
R - KD3151031D
L - KD3151041D
HID $726
R - KD3351031D
L - KD3351041D
According to my friend Nate at my dealer's parts department the two units are very different (partly due to the system that turns the headlight with the car and partly because of the HID). They look quite different on the parts blow up for sure, but I don't have a picture to show you. I suggest a trip to your dealer to confirm if you don't believe me
(or you can call Mazda corporate and get to a technical specialist for an explanation 800-222-5500)
I think this was covered elsewhere in the forums as well
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-are-illegal&p=2399920&viewfull=1#post2399920
Some other explanations:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5n38wDe684
Every couple of years there is a crackdown where cops pull people over and NHTSA starts having customs turn away shipments (I have a retrofitted car and have been pulled over as well before I re-aimed my lights and after)
http://www.sema.org/files/attachmen...-eNews-May07-Lighting-HID-Conversion-Kits.pdf
http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/41/customs-seizing-imports-of-illegal-hid-conversion-kits
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html
The Law they reference (also there is one about color, but that one is less common depending on your state)
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/VI/A/301/II/30122
Too bad you can't even consider yourself safe with "DOT Approved" claims since those usually reference the whole system including the reflector, lens, and light source (when the retrofit kit only has the source included)
Best Regards,
David
Last edited:
Suddueth13
Member
- :
- 2011 Mazda 2 Sport, 1987 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/sho...-vs-Halogen-comparison-of-projector-bowls-etc
Here is another instance comparing the CX-7 halogen projector vs. the HID projector. There are some halogen projectors that will accept HID well. The first gen Mazda 3 Stanley projectors for instance are phenomenal with a clear lens and some modifications to the cutoff shield.
The difference between halogen and HID projectors in the CX-5 is a lot different than in other vehicles. The HID projectors used in the CX-5 are Bixenon so they work for both low beam and high beam. It utilizes a completely different shield and bowl design.
Here is another instance comparing the CX-7 halogen projector vs. the HID projector. There are some halogen projectors that will accept HID well. The first gen Mazda 3 Stanley projectors for instance are phenomenal with a clear lens and some modifications to the cutoff shield.
The difference between halogen and HID projectors in the CX-5 is a lot different than in other vehicles. The HID projectors used in the CX-5 are Bixenon so they work for both low beam and high beam. It utilizes a completely different shield and bowl design.
Some lenses are HID compatable, meaning they can accept both the HID and halogen bulbs. On my car, I have the HID compatable lenses but have the halogen bulb yet.
