Throttle Response

A

amgc36

Member
Got my CX-5 a few weeks ago and I am pretty happy with it so far. But one thing that really bothers me is the throttle response. When I step on the gas pedal it takes 0.5 sec for the throttle to respond. It's most obvious when I try to accelerate out of the corner, or pulling out to the passing lane to get pass a slow car. It happens when the car is in manual shifting mode so the delay wasn't due to downshifting.

Is this normal? I hope it's not because none of the cars I drove before (a gutless Tercel included) behave like this.
 
If its still really low in the miles then it may just need more break in time. I got mine with 1 mile on it and the throttle felt lazy but now its starting to "loosen" up and respond faster.

Are you manual or auto.
 
Push harder and faster:)). I have read that the ECM & TCM have a learning algorithm and it takes some time to adjust to your style of driving. Maybe that is the reason. Ed
 
As stated in owners manual:
"Active Adaptive Shift (AAS)
automatically controls the transaxle shift
points to best suit the road conditions and
driver input. This improves driving
comfort."

It works well, tranny becomes more responsive for aggressive driver after a few hundred miles. I know how well it adapts, having reached 9K miles recently.


Welcome amgc36. Do you still have the old C36?
 
Mistersix said:
If its still really low in the miles then it may just need more break in time. I got mine with 1 mile on it and the throttle felt lazy but now its starting to "loosen" up and respond faster.
Are you manual or auto.
Click to expand...

It is auto and has about 600 miles on it so far. Hopefully it will be better soon.

erhayes said:
Push harder and faster:)). I have read that the ECM & TCM have a learning algorithm and it takes some time to adjust to your style of driving. Maybe that is the reason. Ed
Click to expand...

Is throttle response part of the learning algorithm?

CX-SV said:
As stated in owners manual:
"Active Adaptive Shift (AAS)
automatically controls the transaxle shift
points to best suit the road conditions and
driver input. This improves driving
comfort."

It works well, tranny becomes more responsive for aggressive driver after a few hundred miles. I know how well it adapts, having reached 9K miles recently.
Click to expand...


I don't think it has to do with the tranny though but more with power delivery.


CX-SV said:
Welcome amgc36. Do you still have the old C36?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome. The C36 is long gone and is dearly missed. Hopefully the kids will grow up quickly and I can get myself a C63 or whatever is available then. :D
 
amgc36 said:
I don't think it has to do with the tranny though but more with power delivery.
Click to expand...

What you probably are feeling (if it's not new tranny's unwillingess to downshift crisply) is probably the engine in Atkinson cycle mode for high fuel economy. Usually this is felt at cruise, lower rpms, upper gears, larger throttle opening.
 
amgc36 said:
It happens when the car is in manual shifting mode so the delay wasn't due to downshifting.

Is this normal?
Click to expand...

I played around with the manual mode on my way home today, and didn't notice any lag in response. There can be slight lag when in automatic mode of course, but in manual mode I didn't notice any. Maybe others can experiment too?
 
If you're in manual mode, set yourself up in the right gear where the RPM is in the power band, that way it will accelerate right when you need it.
 
MadMan2k said:
If you're in manual mode, set yourself up in the right gear where the RPM is in the power band, that way it will accelerate right when you need it.
Click to expand...

I'll second this ^^^^

I experimented with it a lot more this morning, and there wasn't any appreciable lag between hitting the accelerator and feeling acceleration when in manual mode. Naturally, not much happens unless the revs are already up there a bit, but regardless of the revs it at least *tries* to accelerate right away ;)
 
Have others noticed a flat spot in MT acceleration on launch?

In my MT model, I get an annoying drop-out in power on launch. When accelerating from a standing start, the vehicle takes off nicely for a fraction of a second, then the power just drops as if I took my foot off the gas, then power comes back and acceleration continues. There is a lurching sensation, rather than a smooth application of power. I first thought this was a learning issue for me; I just needed to train myself to modulate the throttle and clutch correctly, but after 1500 miles I am still figuring it out. Of course if I wind it up and do a drag race start, the car takes off as it should, but I would like to be able to smoothly accelerate more moderately, squeeze on the power and accelerate without having to spin the wheels. Maybe the way to describe the phenomenon is that the throttle response on launch is not at all linear.

I am well accustomed to low-power cars, it's not like I'm coming from a V8; I haven't owned an automatic in many years; not afraid to floor an accelerator. This is just not like anything I've experienced.

Is this an artifact of the electronic throttle? Just a dead spot in the torque curve? The Atkinson cycle?

Have others noticed this?
 
IMO Atkinson cycle which is necessary for the best gas mileage in class. I can feel it w/automatic even if it's masked more. No lurching but in that mode deeper throttle causes less acceleration (or the "dead spot" you mentioned).
 
If were on the same page i think its a matter of clutch engagement. I feel there are moments where the clutch catches suddenly and chokes off the motor a bit no matter how smooth you are. Almost like dumping the clutch at low rpm. The motor is to weak to over come this and feels flat for a moment. The motor feels weak in general below 4k. After that point it really comes alive and pulls adequately.

I have found that smooth engagement requires the catch and hold technique. Release the clutch quickly and smoothly until you feel it start to catch, (about mid stroke) then stop and hold for a second, then release. My six ask the same clutch wise, as to where in the miata you can just dump and go.
 
CCR76 said:
In my MT model, I get an annoying drop-out in power on launch. When accelerating from a standing start, the vehicle takes off nicely for a fraction of a second, then the power just drops as if I took my foot off the gas, then power comes back and acceleration continues. There is a lurching sensation, rather than a smooth application of power. I first thought this was a learning issue for me; I just needed to train myself to modulate the throttle and clutch correctly, but after 1500 miles I am still figuring it out. Of course if I wind it up and do a drag race start, the car takes off as it should, but I would like to be able to smoothly accelerate more moderately, squeeze on the power and accelerate without having to spin the wheels. Maybe the way to describe the phenomenon is that the throttle response on launch is not at all linear.

I am well accustomed to low-power cars, it's not like I'm coming from a V8; I haven't owned an automatic in many years; not afraid to floor an accelerator. This is just not like anything I've experienced.

Is this an artifact of the electronic throttle? Just a dead spot in the torque curve? The Atkinson cycle?

Have others noticed this?
Click to expand...

Regarding the highlighted text, I have experienced it as well. I think you will find that a smoother/slower application of throttle will reduce the occurrence of lurching.
I previously drove a car which had less torque than this one and didnt achieve peak torque till 4400rpm (Toyota Matrix with 1.8L 1zz-fe engine), but because it was cable throttle dealing with bogging was a bit more intuitive.
 
Related to the dead spot in powerband created when in Atkinson cycle mode, that's why nearly all engines with this are hybrids-electric motor/supercharged/turbocharged (to help compensate for low engine output in that mode)
 
CX-SV said:
IMO Atkinson cycle which is necessary for the best gas mileage in class. I can feel it w/automatic even if it's masked more. No lurching but in that mode deeper throttle causes less acceleration (or the "dead spot" you mentioned).
Click to expand...

OK; I gotta ask. I've seen several references to the Atkinson Cycle capability of this engine (and I generally know what that means-though I'm no expert on it) and nowhere else (road tests, spec sheets, etc.) have I ever seen any mention of this. So where does this information reside and why am I seemingly the only CX-5 owner who does not "know" this?
 
paris1 said:
OK; I gotta ask. I've seen several references to the Atkinson Cycle capability of this engine (and I generally know what that means-though I'm no expert on it) and nowhere else (road tests, spec sheets, etc.) have I ever seen any mention of this. So where does this information reside and why am I seemingly the only CX-5 owner who does not "know" this?
Click to expand...

Google: Atkinson cycle

Some articles about CX-5 (including C&D article) mention Atkinson cycle effect.
 
Last edited:
Jcanracer said:
Regarding the highlighted text, I have experienced it as well. I think you will find that a smoother/slower application of throttle will reduce the occurrence of lurching.
I previously drove a car which had less torque than this one and didnt achieve peak torque till 4400rpm (Toyota Matrix with 1.8L 1zz-fe engine), but because it was cable throttle dealing with bogging was a bit more intuitive.
Click to expand...

I do think this is more engine than clutch. Today I did several starts making a point of getting the accelerator and clutch to a certain point and holding them there with no change as the car accelerated. The car accelerated forward smartly, then the power died and there was that pitching forward sense of deceleration before it picked up again; all this time I never changed the pedal positions. I watched the tach; the first time the hesitation happened at 1500 rpm, but then I tried again with more throttle and it seemed to happen around 2000 but after what felt like the same amount of time, a second or so.

I don't like that electronic throttle, think that is part of the problem, although I expect I'll adapt. Also wonder of some of this is the engine management software programming, and if so if there is any chance that it could be helped with an update at some point? Finally, the throttle return spring seems quite stiff; possibly less resistance would make it easier to fine-tune one's touch?
 
CCR76 said:
I don't like that electronic throttle, think that is part of the problem, although I expect I'll adapt. Also wonder of some of this is the engine management software programming, and if so if there is any chance that it could be helped with an update at some point? Finally, the throttle return spring seems quite stiff; possibly less resistance would make it easier to fine-tune one's touch?
Click to expand...

I doubt it's the electronic throttle, these have been in common use for well over a decade and should be completely unobtrusive and precise. Yes on the liklihood of your issue being contributed to by the engine management programming, it could be a problem with the engine going into a feedback oscillation of some sort and could likely be fixed with a minor software update. But my CX-5 with the automatic six-speed has nearly perfect throttle response with no negatives being attributable to the electronic throttle.
 
CCR76 said:
I do think this is more engine than clutch. Also wonder of some of this is the engine management software programming, and if so if there is any chance that it could be helped with an update at some point ?
Click to expand...

I think it's engine management software programming which is how it goes into fuel-saving Atkenson cycle mode, with the resulting dead spot. To modify/update and shorten time spent in that mode would decrease fuel economy.
 
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