driving dynamics of fwd vs. awd

veejayy

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rx-8
hello,

this is not a thread about which is better in snow or which gets better gas mileage.

I am interested in your thoughts on what would be a better driver experience. I tested the awd version again on a test track at a dealership and i was surprised how well it did in corners. the tires were 17 inch. Would the fwd be a better experience?

thanks.
 
The awd is 100% fwd until the front wheels spin, then power is delivered to the rear tires. Since the cx5 doesn't have the power to spin the front tires on asphalt, they will drive the same until you get in snow or ice. Actually, the fwd would probably drive better because its lighter.
 
Generally, RWD > AWD > FWD

Until you take into consideration of how much added weight the AWD system brings, in addition to how it will impact steering feel. :)

I tested the awd version again on a test track at a dealership and i was surprised how well it did in corners.

Candidly, if you were test driving a CX-5 in general conditions and were able to induce enough slip in the front wheels that the rears stepped in, you were driving too hard for the streets.

As for being up north, the AWD model would be a no-brainer for me.
 
Until you take into consideration of how much added weight the AWD system brings, in addition to how it will impact steering feel. :)



Candidly, if you were test driving a CX-5 in general conditions and were able to induce enough slip in the front wheels that the rears stepped in, you were driving too hard for the streets.

As for being up north, the AWD model would be a no-brainer for me.

I've never actually drove a car that had AWD... wonder what kind of difference I'd see since I'm so used to FWD in snow.
 
Since the cx5 doesn't have the power to spin the front tires on asphalt...
Correction: the manual transmission can spin the tires, but only in an aggressive 1st-2nd gear shift. Also in rainy conditions there is the potential to spin the wheels if you are holding a low gear and are taking a corner at speed (although PhoenixINX is right though, you'd have to be driving a bit too aggressively for the streets).

ok i'm off the soapbox now :)
 
I've never actually drove a car that had AWD... wonder what kind of difference I'd see since I'm so used to FWD in snow.

At under highway speed awd is really sweet but going 60mph, if you lose it, the only difference it will make having AWD is that you are going to go further in the ditch and maybe if youre lucky you will be able to get out of it.
It makes me laugh when im being push by a big 4x4 on highway in snowy condition, if he lose it is 4x4 wont be of any help at that kind of conditions.
 
Until you take into consideration of how much added weight the AWD system brings, in addition to how it will impact steering feel. :)

Well, all other things taken equally, including weight- the rule typically applies. If you start getting into specific differences from car to car like power distribution, weight and suspension geometry- there's no way to make a general drivetrain layout judgment. There are lots of AWD cars that handle worse than some FWD cars just because of bad/compromised (intentionally) design.
 
You think AWD will improve GTI or Si? No.

That depends if the rest of the car was properly tuned,car's power output, chassis rigidity, suspension design and dimensioning, torque distribution between axles and is mostly noticed on cars with a power output in excess of 200Bhp. Usually, the more power a car disposes better handling/less scrub in the twists and turns in an AWD car than FWD or RWD (which are generally more fun). You may see a trend of more high-end cars going towards AWD as the years progress.

With AWD you have less wheel spin and torque understeer (a car's tendency to exit the curve by following a trajectory whose radius is longer than the corner's when a car understeers the driver has to steer more than he/she'd normally have to). AWD vehicles have this issue as well, but much less and depending on the driver you can force more neutral driving by "braking late" when entering corners(you do this as well in FWD, but the rear wheels are more subject to sliding and you can't change gears while braking-most efficient when used with "left foot braking"), in order to create a weight transfer, and push the gas pedal while inside the corner in order to allow a "torque transfer" (usually operated by self locking differentials) to the rear wheels. This can be really felt in turbo-charged vehicles. Most drivers with experience do this without even thinking because it "feels good/fun" when driving.

Generally FWD cars are less balanced then AWD and which have better grip and stability. Due to most of the weight being up front, which contributes great inertia forces while in a corner. Since no opposite force is present to spin the car around its vertical axis (i.e. no rear wheel traction) the car has a natural tendency to understeer. Most of the time you won't really feel this unless you push it in the corners - like on a track or really tight exit/entrance ramps.

If you want to see the difference test drive a Mazdaspeed6 and a Mazda 6, Audi A4/A5/Q5, BMW 333/335,etc. with and without AWD - granted these also have engine,chassis, and suspension upgrades as well, but are also heavier cars. Very different cars in the turns, but for commuting to and from work most won't feel the difference.

The advantage of FWD is it is the cheapest and most compact setup with better gas mileage, which is a higher priority for regular road cars - the downside FWD cars have understeer, torque steer and have unbalanced weight distribution. AWD cars are good because they are the most stable in low traction situations, but are also the heaviest, higher priced, have higher mechanical losses (friction) due to the number of gears to drive (differentials,axles,driveshafts,etc.), and have more parts and associated maintenance cost.

I would say the all around best for all year everyday driving is AWD because it balances performance with stability, but it depends on what you want from your car and how you will use it. So you have to make the right choice for you. Just my 2 cents with 3 cents change. ;)

If you were allowed to test drive the AWD at a test track check if your dealer will let you drive a FWD back to back to get a real comparison.

Either way they are both pretty fun!

:)
 
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Most of the slick conditions stability of a modern vehicle like the CX-5 (standard on both awd and fwd versions) is due to stability control system. It greatly reduces the chance of getting sideways in normal driving for normal drivers.
 
That depends if the rest of the car was properly tuned,car's power output, chassis rigidity, suspension design and dimensioning, torque distribution between axles and is mostly noticed on cars with a power output in excess of 200Bhp. Usually, the more power a car disposes better handling/less scrub in the twists and turns in an AWD car ...

Either way they are both pretty fun!

:)

Really good evaluation of differing drive systems, but question its applicability to the CX-5 since the "AWD" system is pretty minimal here in that it only activates when the front wheels lose grip. Otherwise, it is dead weight and does nothing for anyone. That's my understanding anyway, and I must admit it's a bit disappointing. I will be curious to see if the system is worth anything at all when I get a chance to drive in the snow, which is a primary reason I got a CUV as opposed to a truly fun car.

I generally disliked my Murano, except when it snowed (and by corollary I was going skiing), then I loved it because it could climb a wall of ice. I would never own another Nissan, but I admit with chagrin that their AWD systems seem significantly more sophisticated than Mazda's. I am similarly surprised that the VW "4-Motion" system seems to work the same as the Mazda's, and that they would bother to put something like that on their new Golf "R" when it doesn't seem that it would bestow any handling improvements, although perhaps I don't understand that system entirely.
 
Really good evaluation of differing drive systems, but question its applicability to the CX-5 since the "AWD" system is pretty minimal here in that it only activates when the front wheels lose grip. Otherwise, it is dead weight and does nothing for anyone...

Autoweek mentions at: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120302/CARREVIEWS/120309971

"Interestingly, unlike many soft-roading-oriented AWD setups, the CX-5 isn't merely FWD until the rear wheels are needed. To maximize efficiency, Mazda's engineers found that under differing loads and conditions, varying and discrete torque splits offered the best fuel economy. The system also keeps the rear end more tucked in during near-the-limit cornering antics."
 
katmar - Good find, I remember that Autoweek article from earlier. Pretty sophisticaed awd system, and other reviews/tests also found excellent handling and steering for awd version.
 
Yes very interesting Katmar! I missed those reviews somehow. That's the only place I've seen reference to the sophistication of the AWD system. It's certainly good news if true. The dealers certainly aren't aware of it, which is not a great shock. But I've never seen anything from Mazda referencing it either which is a little strange ...
 
I purchased the AWD after test driving AWD then FWD. My wife and I took a very sharp exit ramp on both test drives first with the the AWD, it stuck like glue in the curve. The FWD did ok but not near as controlled as the AWD. My wife was actually driving and she is a very capable driver, she was sold on AWD after that.
 
Ok a little more research shows that the CX-5 does actually have the Mazda ATS (Active Torque Split) AWD system which is pretty much as described in the Autoweek articles. Good deal. Sounds promising. Theoretically then there should be significant differences (as described by some testers) in the driving dynamics of the FWD and AWD. It's also interesting because a lot of pple (and magazine testers) seemed to opt for the manual transmission for maximum "sportiness", but as that only is available with FWD, it probably doesn't provide the best handling.

I did have the ability to lock all of the wheels together in the Nissan, but although I did sometimes use that, I'm not convinced it ever really was necessary.
 
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