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inodes
03-28-2012, 03:51 AM
Hi All,

Finally! After all my posts my Black Mica Diesel CX-5 GT is coming soon.

Manufactured: 28/02/12
Left Hiroshima: 09/03/12
Left Japan: 12/03/12
Arrived Australia: 19/03/12
Arrived Sydney: 25/03/12
Arrived at Dealer: 27/03/12

Now just to pick it up..... soon....

Report to come :)

hsb
03-29-2012, 01:43 PM
Well?

Eager to hear real world experience with the diesel.

inodes
04-03-2012, 10:09 AM
I had my new Diesel CX-5 delivered on Friday afternoon. I've done a mix of driving around Sydney and surrounds to the tune of 700km (435 miles).
I think I can give a good summary of the pros and cons so far of the Diesel.

The model I have is the AWD Diesel with the following:
Power: 129kW/173hp @ 4500rpm
Torque: 420Nm/310lbf @ 2000rpm

This compares with the same AWD Petrol:
Power: 113kW/152hp @ 6000rpm
Torque: 198Nm/146lbf @ 4000rpm

That's 14% more power at 25% less rpm and 112% more torque at 50% less rpm.
But the redline and operating revs of the diesel are also lower (rev gauges are obviously a different scale to suit).
The diesel is about 100kg heavier though.

In comparing various vehicles, I had a chance to drive the VW Passat Diesel and Tiguan Diesel. The Tiguan TDI feels like the economical twin of it's petrol sibling. The petrol is the performance model in comparison. But transplanting the engine into the Passat makes for a powerful and comfortable experience. It was fairly comparable when driving only 30 minutes prior, the top of the range CX-7, which has performance in spades.

This is one reason we held off the the CX-5 Diesel. Ideally it had to have CX-7 or better performance, with Passat fuel economy.

Starting up the CX-5 Diesel, I was surprised at how quiet Mazda have made it. VW has been in the Diesel game for a long time, and their engines and tranmissions are quite advanced. But the diesel of the CX-5 in comparison seems not only more quiet (at idle from outside), but revs a heck load more. The engine note is masculine, throaty and the noise is quite addictive at high revs.

As far as dynamics go, the CX-5 Petrol and Diesel feel very similar, so driving along a highway and around corners there is almost no difference (comparing AWD Petrol and AWD Diesel).

It's the engine and change in transmission behaviour where to change is most noticable. There is a variance in the gear ratio which immediately becomes noticible when driving the diesel. Because the revs stay low,

The diesel doesn't mind being revved. Testing by the Australian government for fuel economy rated the running rpm of the CX-5 Diesel to be partway between the low revs of the Tiguan and the screaming revs of the Petrol CX-5. This seems to equate to less diesel thumping while running the vehicle around town. Some diesels almost sound tractor like when driving around at parking speeds, because their revs are slow low and the engines so massive. The CX-5 seems far less so.

But on the highway while the petrol CX-5 loves to be revved high (and most of the useable overtaking manuourveres would require high revs and downshifting), the diesel requires a small tap and no downshift to overtake.

Most of our highways are 110km/h limit (70mph) - some areas up north where the CX-5 is likely to be common are 130km/h (81mph). These are slow limits by European standards, but at these speeds the Diesel is running at around 1800rpm; practically sounding as if it's idle. When battling trucks banking up, it's not uncommon to get up to a max of 150km/h (96mph) (Shhh... don't tell anyone). And for this, there was little effort to go from 100km/h to 130km/h or more. The Diesel did it without breaking a sweat - and comfortably.

Fuel economy....

One of my friends neighbours purchased a new CX-5. Her immediate reaction was to ask the neighbour if it was diesel or petrol, to which the answer was that the $3000 price difference wasn't enough to compensate for variances in fuel economy.
And the neighbour was right.

Customers are typically drawn to diesel first based on fuel economy and in many models, the diesel is so much better than the petrol.
The Petrol CX-5 fuel economy though is quite impressive on paper, and it seems that in practice on this forum (and also in media reports). The difference between it and the diesel on paper is minimal.

I've done a mixture of driving including a lot of stop-start Sydney traffic (where i-stop kicks in), and also highway driving. The fuel economy is best around the 80km/h (50mph) mark, but if you drove that speed on Australian highways you'd be shoved off the road. Any slower in a car like the CX-5 that obviously doesn't seem to have issues, and Police would pull you up for a random breath test to ensure you weren't drinking.

With this mix of driving, my calculations so far appear to be a dismal 8.6L/100km (27mpg US). This is far worse than many of you are reporting with your petrol runs.
This said, the economy appears to be improving. The calculation on the display appears to be fairly close to my calculations.
See: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/inodes/cx5

I hope that I see an improvement as I continue to drive.

Orangutan
04-03-2012, 10:43 AM
I consider your fuel economy one point in a data set. While others are achieving better fuel economy, they're not you. Someone may say they have similar driving habits but what does that really mean? I wouldn't worry too much about it right now. You don't have all that much mileage on it yet so your observations are necessarily limited. As more people buy them and start logging them, then it will be useful to compare them and see how things average out.

bigi1983
04-03-2012, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the info. 8.6L is quite a lot as Mazda claims 5.7L for this engine - but you obviously enjoy the car:)
Do you get 1800rpm at 110km/h or at 130km/h? Here in Germany when the highway is only with two lanes you can either drive between the trucks with 90km/h or on the left lane with as much as you car can do - that's why low rpm at higher speeds is always good.

cptkloss
04-03-2012, 11:47 AM
"$3000 price difference wasn't enough to compensate for variances in fuel economy"

i guess that's the major hurdle in making diesel popular in the US...overall lower base fuel prices make it tough to make a case for diesel. economy wise at least.
Let's say you drive 18k miles/year and the average difference in fuel consumption is 5 mpg, that comes to measly $150/year savings on gas. Looking at "best case scenario" - highly unlikely - where gas version averages 30 mpg and diesel 40 mpg, it's still just $400/year. hopefully diesel option will cost less than $3k here in states. And from what i read here and elsewhere , it's going to be really difficult to make "performance gain" a significant factor in making people's minds up to which version are they going to choose.. heh anyways it's still theoretical as we dont even know for sure that CX-5 WILL offer diesel option in a forseeable future.

xwedge
04-03-2012, 12:31 PM
I sure hope they do offer it. I hope the US will see this new diesel engine as a performance engine, with the sweetener being fuel economy. No diesel means no purchase for me =( .

DrTraci
04-03-2012, 02:20 PM
+1

inodes
04-03-2012, 07:01 PM
Thanks for the info. 8.6L is quite a lot as Mazda claims 5.7L for this engine - but you obviously enjoy the car:)
Do you get 1800rpm at 110km/h or at 130km/h? Here in Germany when the highway is only with two lanes you can either drive between the trucks with 90km/h or on the left lane with as much as you car can do - that's why low rpm at higher speeds is always good.

Bigi1983, I know this is important in Germany. I will have to go out one weekend and find out what the rpm is at 130. The figure I gave you is for 110km/h which isn't too bad.
This weekend (as per all long weekends) it's double demerit points. Speed this weekend and it's half a licence. Have one passenger with their seatbelt off (any seat counts), and it's half a licence. Drink more than 0.5, and it's 6 months off the road and a $3000 fine.

Thankfully seatbelts and drinking are never an issue, but speeding is too easy....

joepro
04-04-2012, 08:36 PM
Drink more than 0.5, and it's 6 months off the road and a $3000 fine.

Australia has a 0.5 bac limit??!? I live in the wrong country! :D

inodes
04-04-2012, 11:24 PM
Australia has a 0.5 bac limit??!? I live in the wrong country! :D
It is 0.05 sorry. Missing my 0 :)

With my average of getting breath tested at least once per fortnight - it's crazy to drink and drive.
If you're in the first 3 years of your licence (i.e. you still hold provisional plates), the limit is 0.00.

Breath tests are very common with Police sometimes doing them on the spot, but generally they'll block roads and test a bulk of people going through.

Seatbelts are not really an issue. It's been compulsory to wear both front and back since about 1982 (about the same time tobacco advertising was banned completely). I only ever have to tell American or Mexican tourists to put their seatbelts on when they get in the back. They always look at me as if I'm crazy.

cptkloss
04-05-2012, 07:08 AM
backseat seatbelts!?!?!? (boom06)

inodes
04-05-2012, 11:02 AM
backseat seatbelts!?!?!? (boom06)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation_in_the_United_States

It was longer ago than I thought.... Some Australian and US states were among first implementers of seatbelt rules.
The Australian state of Victoria was well ahead of the rest of the world by requiring seatbelts in rear to be compulsory in 1970. Most of the rest of the country followed shortly after.

So it's been over 40 years in Australia since it became compulsory in all seats - something still not case in the US.
The usage in Australia is supposed to be the highest per capita (Sweden is second). And it created an interesting design change to Australian cars when air bags were introduced.

Because of the high rate of sealtbelt usage, studies showed that passengers involved in crashes below 25km/h, received the most benefit from their seat belt usage, and actually incurred injuries from airbag deployment rather than any assistance. The airbag became more useful at higher speed.

When GM exported Australian produced vehicles to the US, the airbag was changed completely. In Australia it was a smaller airbag that deployed at over 25km/h - because it was used as a secondary device. In the US bound vehicles, airbags were doubled in size and required to deploy at speeds less than half the Australian design.
The reason: The airbag was considered a primary device in the US on the basis that seatbelt usage was so low.

Obviously laws and Policing dictate this.

I was born in the mid 70's, and my entire life I've been taught that the seatbelt is a must. I can't count the number of times a Police car would go by and my parents would snap "make sure your seatbelts are on". Not wearing a seatbelt was a primary offense well before we got colour TV.

But in the end, statistically the number of fatalities plummeted when this law was passed. The same drop occurred when roadside random alcohol tests became a common affair.

Interestingly, car magazines here hail the invention of stability control as the most second most important safety feature of the modern car - after the seatbelt.

Really good article worth reading:
http://www.enablingchange.com.au/The_dark_side_of_regulating_behaviour.pdf

sami1228
04-08-2012, 02:09 AM
Anyone know if the diesel version is coming to Canada?

VK Sefirosu
04-08-2012, 02:39 AM
Anyone know if the diesel version is coming to Canada?

Some say yes, others say no… nothing confirmed yet for north america. I've read an article recently that said "the diesel will come to Canada but we can't confirm in which model yet", I'd guess this means either the new Mazda6 or the CX-5 if it happens in the short term…

sami1228
04-08-2012, 02:51 AM
The dealership where I am buying the car from said... likely it'll be the 6 coming with diesel but no one can confirm either way.... so sad.

inodes
04-08-2012, 09:21 AM
The dealership where I am buying the car from said... likely it'll be the 6 coming with diesel but no one can confirm either way.... so sad.

Hope it gets to North America soon. It meets all the strictest US emission requirements with flying colours.
I think Mazda USA has blocked the Diesel thinking there is no market for it. It's GFC thinking, and it's pathetic, because the US retail sales are improving, and the car market is on the rise.

VW Australia made a similar mistake.

Back in 2008, 2009 the Scirocco came out. The decision was made by VW not to export the car to the US or Australia. It was considered poor timing and a vehicle that would steal sales from the Golf GTI.

At the time the decision was probably right for the US. But it was totally wrong for Australia.

Everyone is familar to the state of the world back then.... But what people don't realise is that Australia was immune to the global recessions. We were cashed up on a mining boom (still are), spending money like there as no tomorrow and car sales were at record highs. Cars that would be considered expensive in the US, were considered quite cheap here simply because annual incomes are generally higher.

Ferrari's and Lamborghini sales skyrocketed. Audi sales were so high, they the German brand built their world's biggest dealership in Sydney in response, then took the head of Audi Australia and sent him to Germany to work his magic on Head of Global sales.
See:
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/2D7283F48601D52BCA257392000FE9C8

VW didn't take the pulse of the Australian market.

Shortly after their realisation that the Australia market could handle anything, they reversed their decision...... But it took 2 years to get the Scirocco here.

The Australian market now gets the Scirocco and the Golf R in addition to the GTI - they can't import them quickly enough.
Meanwhile, VW in the US is still on GFC thinking.

At this stage, the Scirocco is not expected to be imported to the US based on the fact that they don't think it will sell.
Is Mazda thinking the same about the CX-5 Diesel?

Is so, they're both stupid. Both would sell in the US easily.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/volkswagen-wont-bring-scirocco-to-the-us-570.html
http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-scirocco-may-still-come-to-america.html

VK Sefirosu
04-08-2012, 12:27 PM
I also think it would sell well however, the nearest competitor with diesel engines, the VW Tiguan is also not available with a diesel engine over here. Maybe they wanted to see how the CX-5 sells over here before taking the jump with the diesel, or they prefer to bring the Mazda6 with it since there are competitors with it (VW Passat).

Or they have something more coming up with the Skyactiv-G engine that we're not aware of (last two paragraphs) : http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/represents+face+Mazda/6249870/story.html

I think Mazda is smart enough to know what to do, at least I hope so.

xwedge
04-09-2012, 05:08 PM
Well, according to Mazda from the New York Auto show, the new Mazda 6 will first be released to the U.S. with the Skyactiv-G gasoline...not the diesel.
"For North America, the 2014 Mazda6 will feature a SKYACTIV-G gasoline engine and be available with two transmissions, the SKYACTIV-MT six-speed manual and SKYACTIV-Drive six-speed automatic."

Given that, and the fact that they said "a" Mazda WILL arrive with the Diesel engine next year, it seems safe to assume it'll be in the CX5. Then again, maybe I'm being overly hopeful...but let's assume my interpretation and assumptions are correct heh.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/2014-mazda6-with-skyactiv-tech-confirmed-for-paris-motor-show/

cptkloss
04-09-2012, 07:06 PM
If they want to be successful they need to price it right. I'm looking at new Ford Escape pricing scheme...1.6 to 2.0 engine upgrade costs $1000, i-stop $295... it will be a worthy competition...hehe..once they start throwing in $1,500-$2,000 rebates

inodes
04-10-2012, 12:10 AM
If they want to be successful they need to price it right. I'm looking at new Ford Escape pricing scheme...1.6 to 2.0 engine upgrade costs $1000, i-stop $295... it will be a worthy competition...hehe..once they start throwing in $1,500-$2,000 rebates

Australia and the US are energy hungry countries. We're the two most wasteful nations on earth per capita with regards to refuse and water (and also very high up list for emissions per capita).

If we had fuel costs of Europe, or were as progressive ecologically as Europen nations, then diesels would have been common years ago.
CO2 emission wise, the diesels are better than the petrols (comparable pollution though).

In the UK, drivers get charged related to emissions:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10012524

The small diesel gets a tiny 20.00 registration fee - where as the petrol gets punished for higher emissions.

VK Sefirosu
04-10-2012, 12:17 AM
I got this reply when I asked @mazdacanada on twitter today: "working on it! Hope to have an "official" date for #SkyActiv Diesel soon!". For what it's worth.

But I understand that they won't confirm anything to risk sales of the current models.

Lando
04-10-2012, 12:55 AM
On my daily commute down I-80, I see many Jetta TDI sedans and wagons. It's a shame that Mazda is not willing to test the market with their far superior 175hp Skyactiv D, especially given VW's less than stellar consumer ratings. A possible sales strategy would be to offer it only at certain dealerships much like they do the Mazdaspeed cars here in the US. True, the majority of CX-5 sales would undoubtedly be 'G', but as with Mazdaspeed buyers, there are always those enlightened souls who would be willing to drive a few miles to experience true driving passion. And Mazda, if you are eavesdropping, you can have my idea, no strings attached.(wow)

inodes
04-10-2012, 02:22 AM
On my daily commute down I-80, I see many Jetta TDI sedans and wagons.

I still think VW thinks the same regarding diesels as Mazda when it comes to the US.

Case and point would be Golf GTD (the diesel GTI) and the Tiguan TDI. They're both German produced, but I don't think either hit the US market. They are however exported to nearly every other advanced economy selling VW's.

I think the reason the Jetta is not overlooked is production location.

US Jetta's are produced in Tennessee and Mexico. I suppose there are trade agreements with Mexico that would mean TDI Jetta's would be an easy (and possibly encouraged) import for VW.

hooked
04-10-2012, 07:59 AM
We were leaning heavily to getting the VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI, but the smaller size was a concern because we have two ever-growing pre-teens. The CX-5 was the best choice when combining space, comfort, room for the dog, mileage, features, looks and sportiness. I wish Mazda offered the Diesel option in the U.S. That would have been at the top of our list.

bamirault
04-10-2012, 04:01 PM
[QUOTE=VK Sefirosu;5926358]I also think it would sell well however, the nearest competitor with diesel engines, the VW Tiguan is also not available with a diesel engine over here. Maybe they wanted to see how the CX-5 sells over here before taking the jump with the diesel, or they prefer to bring the Mazda6 with it since there are competitors with it (VW Passat).

I was told by a VW dealer two years ago that there would be no diesel Tiguan in Canada before its next redesign as the current engines could not meet California emissions requirements without ad-blue - and there was no place to put the resevoir. I was also told (at the Ottawa Auto Show last month) by VW that the Tiguan diesel would be available for preorder the fall of 2013 and by a Mazda report that the CX-5 diesel would be available at the same time.

What's that information worth?

inodes
04-10-2012, 06:54 PM
We were leaning heavily to getting the VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI, but the smaller size was a concern because we have two ever-growing pre-teens. The CX-5 was the best choice when combining space, comfort, room for the dog, mileage, features, looks and sportiness. I wish Mazda offered the Diesel option in the U.S. That would have been at the top of our list.

I considered VW and BMW Diesel options. The X1 though is so much smaller than the CX-5 (not too much larger than the Mazda 3 I was coming from). I considered the Passat Diesel as well. I compared quite well. But driving the CX-5 now, glad we chose it.

inodes
04-10-2012, 06:58 PM
ould be no diesel Tiguan in Canada before its next redesign as the current engines could not meet California emissions requirements without ad-blue

What are the Californian emissions like for diesels?

The CX-5 Diesel not only exceeds the tough current European standards, but also exceeds the future European standards set for vehicles manufactured post 2015.
How can current Californian standards be getting in the way of the CX-5?

Lando
04-10-2012, 09:46 PM
Mazda says that the Skyactiv D meets all US standards without costly additives like Mercedes is forced to use (German engineering you know). It is cleaner than the Golf, Jetta and Toureg diesels that are legal in California. I don't think CA emissions are the issue. I think it's as others have said, that there is a perception by most American consumers that diesels are dirty and noisy. Previous to my vacation in Ireland, where I got to experience the genius of Rudolf Diesel on my 10 day drive around the country, I felt the same way. I couldn't imagine ever wanting to own one especially since my local gas station is selling diesel for 20 cents a gallon more than 87 octane. Then I saw the light. It's all about those 320 pound/feet of torque and that purring sound coming from the engine when your moving down the highway at 65 mph and your engine is turning over 2000 rpm. You get the feeling that the engine is not even working hard.

I have followed behind Dodge and Ford diesel trucks that are stinky and loud. Often these drivers leave the engines running while they get out of their trucks and unload something or stand chatting while people nearby have to listen and smell their manhood. I don't blame people for the negative feelings that these old school engines evoke. It just doesn't have to be this way. The fact that our legislatures tax diesel fuel more than gas is the only reason that it costs more. In Ireland it was 10 cents per liter less than gas. Inodes, how do the prices per liter in Australia compare for gas and diesel?

Thanks

As an aside, Rudolf Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil so that farmers could grow their own fuel to run their tractors and farm equipment. He died mysteriously while crossing the English channel at the age of 55. Shortly after his death, the petroleum industry took over the manufacture of diesel fuel. I read that one of his original engines is still running at a museum somewhere.

inodes
04-11-2012, 01:26 AM
I think it's as others have said, that there is a perception by most American consumers that diesels are dirty and noisy.

Japan and the US are identical in this perception!

I was in Japan in December and January just prior to the CX-5 launch. I was considering visiting Mazda in Hiroshima to get up to date information, or go to the Fukuoka Car Show to see it in the flesh, but instead decided to go skiing in Nagano and get married.

But I did get a bombardment of CX-5 information on Japanese TV and media regarding the product (thankfully my wife translates the difficult stuff for me).

Two important points were made in Japanese media reports:

* Japan diesel usage is 1%, with most diesels being commercial
* Japanese perceive diesel to be noisy and dirty

The story is identical to the US....

BUT... Mazda Japan changed their tactic to deal with perception.

They said clearly:

* We know potential of the CX-5 Diesel
* We will provide to the public their perception is wrong

To cater these points, all the major TV stations ran specials where famous TV reporters were all driven around Hiroshima in both petrol and diesel models, and various demonstrations with white towels over the exhaust were done to show there was no carbon soot.

It worked....

They estimated the take up of diesels to be 10% of all domestic sales in Japan, or a total of 1000 units - or 100 Diesels.

Instead, in the first month they sold:

* 5840 Diesels (A massive 58 times the amount expected)
* 2160 Petrols (A conservative 2 times the amount expected)

Nevertheless, sales records were broken and possibly Japan had to steal from supplies that would have otherwise gone elsewhere (easy when you're in control of all production and exports).

All Mazda's worldwide (including North America) were given access to test petrol and diesel models well before decisions regarding units were discussed.
After this, all markets (except North America) have made a decision to sell the diesel.

It's fairly easy for the US to prepare their customers with media announcements in a similar way to the media releases I watched that must have gone someway to breaking the Japanese perception and creating the whopping 58 times record sales in Japan domestically.

VK Sefirosu
04-14-2012, 02:56 AM
Inodes,

Out of curiosity, do you have access to a PDF version of the owner's manual from your side of the world, with diesel and features available in your market ?

Here owner's manual are available as PDF without registration on Mazda's US website (the Canadian paper version of the manual is the same except bilingual) but I haven't been able to find the same for diesel spec models.

inodes
04-14-2012, 11:29 PM
Inodes,

Out of curiosity, do you have access to a PDF version of the owner's manual from your side of the world, with diesel and features available in your market ?

Here owner's manual are available as PDF without registration on Mazda's US website (the Canadian paper version of the manual is the same except bilingual) but I haven't been able to find the same for diesel spec models.

I tried.... but unfortunately don't think they post the manuals online. I could however said a request off the Mazda Australia. Being an owner, I can't see why they would say no.

Lando
04-15-2012, 02:25 PM
Australia and the US are energy hungry countries. We're the two most wasteful nations on earth per capita with regards to refuse and water (and also very high up list for emissions

Inodes,

Does your owner's manual prohibit the use of biodiesel? I am curious after watching the movie "Fuel" from Netflix. I show this movie in my 'Frontiers of Science' class.

inodes
04-18-2012, 07:54 AM
Inodes,

Does your owner's manual prohibit the use of biodiesel? I am curious after watching the movie "Fuel" from Netflix. I show this movie in my 'Frontiers of Science' class.

The specifications for Australia are strictly the use of EN590 specified Diesel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_590

Diesel sold in Australia has also been modified to have very low sulphur amounts in line with this standard.

inodes
04-18-2012, 07:57 AM
Found an interesting article which shows Nissan skipping diesel for the US as well, and a simple paragraph explaining why:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/nissan-working-on-a-plug-in-hybrid-but-still-iffy-on-diesel-in-u-s/

“Diesel is an open question. In the U.S., diesel is very limited,” Loing said. Because of fuel cost and availability, as well as government regulations, “the case is more difficult here.” Still, he said, “I’m ready to look at it.”

Even more comprehensive:
http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/subaru-diesel-cars-usa.htm
And
http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/2012-usa-diesel-cars.htm