Comparing time slips, before/after Cobb

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Mazdaspeed 6
I was going through my old time slips and comparing them to this weekends. The only difference besides the time and weather is now I have a cobb ap and a short throw shifter.

7/3/09: Non aggressive launch, no power shifts

60': 2.2196
330': 6.3227
ET @ 594': 9.0310
1/8 ET: 9.6524
1/8 MPH: 72.41
1000' ET: 12.4927
1000' MPH: 86.33
1/4 ET: 14.9280
1/4 MPH: 92.68

7/2/2010 Notes: Launch control set to 4000, shifting at 6000, flat foot shifting set to 5000. wish i had tried shifting at 5500 though.

60': 2.0872
330': 6.2291
ET @ 594': 8.9563
1/8 ET:9.5877
1/8 MPH: 71.27
1000' ET: 12.4559
1000' MPH: 86.17
1/4 ET: 14.8227
1/4 MPH: 98.10

Based on these two time slips i can conclude that the Cobb AP with an off the shelf map doesnt increase power much at all. Seat of the pants it feels better, but i think it just changes the feel of the power band. Usually the trap speed is an indication that you are making more power but in this case its because i didnt have to shift into 5th since power doesnt plummet at 5500. Notice my 1/8th and 1000' MPH are nearly idential before and after cobb. weather probably wasnt identical but should of been pretty close.
 
Something is off as I ran the quarter quicker but with a lower speed. Maybe a get together sometime soon to see what the problem is.
 
I did some data logs today and im only holding 15.37 PSI boost from 4000 to 6000rpms and my wastegate is at 99% im not going to troubleshoot it right now because i have a new intake and turbo inlet pipe coming on july 6th then hopefully my TMIC is right after that.

I would like to try to run you again from a roll and this time im going to shift at 5500. i do think my car is faster this way, i really wish i would of tried at least one pass at the track shifting at 5500. I kept screwing up each of my passes and never changed my shiftpoint.
 
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Wow are you serious? $600 component for the car and it really doesn't do much? I was looking into the AP but man this is a bit dissapointing...

Obviously, down the road with a full TBE and some other powerfull goodies with a higher stage you can get some better numbers... but does this mean it's not that good for a stockish car?
 
I still dont regret the purchase because it opens you up for so much potential. Im using an off the shelf map which isnt ideal in about any situation. I do not yet feel comfortable making changes to increase power until i study it some more. I am just surprized that my car feels so much faster (seat of the pants) but my track times dont indicate any more power being put to the ground. sure my ET is a tad better thanks to launch control/flat foot shifting.

I love the data logging, opened throttle plate, launch control and especially flat foot shifting. I bought mine brand new from Ebay for $540 (ebay bucks + bing cashback) I believe having a tuner is necessary for anyone looking to upgrade their turbo someday, and i plan to do so next year.
 
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buttons said:
I was going through my old time slips and comparing them to this weekends. The only difference besides the time and weather is now I have a cobb ap and a short throw shifter.

7/3/09: Non aggressive launch, no power shifts

60': 2.2196
330': 6.3227
ET @ 594': 9.0310
1/8 ET: 9.6524
1/8 MPH: 72.41
1000' ET: 12.4927
1000' MPH: 86.33
1/4 ET: 14.9280
1/4 MPH: 92.68

7/2/2010 Notes: Launch control set to 4000, shifting at 6000, flat foot shifting set to 5000. wish i had tried shifting at 5500 though.

60': 2.0872
330': 6.2291
ET @ 594': 8.9563
1/8 ET:9.5877
1/8 MPH: 71.27
1000' ET: 12.4559
1000' MPH: 86.17
1/4 ET: 14.8227
1/4 MPH: 98.10

Based on these two time slips i can conclude that the Cobb AP with an off the shelf map doesnt increase power much at all. Seat of the pants it feels better, but i think it just changes the feel of the power band. Usually the trap speed is an indication that you are making more power but in this case its because i didnt have to shift into 5th since power doesnt plummet at 5500. Notice my 1/8th and 1000' MPH are nearly idential before and after cobb. weather probably wasnt identical but should of been pretty close.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I'm not sure how much 1/4 mile experience you have, but look again at those numbers. Et is an indicator of acceleration/traction/launch/shift, etc. where the final mph is the "power" indicator. I see MUCH quicker and faster numbers in the second set of data. Have you run the calculator to determine the difference in power required for a 3500 lb car to increase the 1/4 mile mph by ~6 mph. Give it a whirl and then try and find that much power for $600 in a generic OTS map.

As for the other folks whining about $600 for a low power improvement, the cash is for the capability in the AP hardware and ATR software, not irrelavent drag strip numbers....
 
FORZDA 1 said:
Hmmm, I'm not sure how much 1/4 mile experience you have, but look again at those numbers. Et is an indicator of acceleration/traction/launch/shift, etc. where the final mph is the "power" indicator. I see MUCH quicker and faster numbers in the second set of data. Have you run the calculator to determine the difference in power required for a 3500 lb car to increase the 1/4 mile mph by ~6 mph. Give it a whirl and then try and find that much power for $600 in a generic OTS map.

As for the other folks whining about $600 for a low power improvement, the cash is for the capability in the AP hardware and ATR software, not irrelavent drag strip numbers....
Click to expand...
I'm not whining, just wondering if there was much of a difference on stock-ish car... I'm aware of the differences and importance of it down the road with heavy modding and turbo upgrades. The software is great for our cars.
 
FORZDA 1 said:
Hmmm, I'm not sure how much 1/4 mile experience you have, but look again at those numbers. Et is an indicator of acceleration/traction/launch/shift, etc. where the final mph is the "power" indicator. I see MUCH quicker and faster numbers in the second set of data. Have you run the calculator to determine the difference in power required for a 3500 lb car to increase the 1/4 mile mph by ~6 mph. Give it a whirl and then try and find that much power for $600 in a generic OTS map.

As for the other folks whining about $600 for a low power improvement, the cash is for the capability in the AP hardware and ATR software, not irrelavent drag strip numbers....
Click to expand...

There was another speed 6 at the track with only aem intake and a TWM shifter who ran equal times (14.7@94mph). We did a race from a 50mph roll twice. First time I pulled a car or so on him and then around 90mph he pulled past me. the second race I pulled a car or two and this time i shifted at 5500 instead of 6000 and kept the lead (though i cant tell how it looked from his view)

To sum it up we were extremely closely matched except I have a cobb AP, 3" test pipe 3" catback and weighed 100lbs less. I weighed 3580 at the track he weighed 3650

I think the cobb is worth its value, but i dont feel my car is performing how it should. What concerns me the most is my weak 600' mph of 71-72mph. other cars were hitting 75-77mph but still only finishing at 96-99mph.

I still think the 98mph trap is only possible because i dont have to shift into 5th i can continue accelerating in 4th where as stock speed 6 cant. If you go by the E.T numbers the COBB ap is superior because of launch control giving me a better 60' which makes a huge difference on each of the E.T's. Looking at the trap speeds the NON cobb ap run (1st) has better 600' and 1000' MPH then with the COBB AP (2nd).
 
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Looking at your final trap speeds and 1/4 mile times the nerd in me couldn't help but calculate the normalized power ratio between each run.

Long story short you put an average of 13% more power to the ground with your second run as compared to the first run. Put simply, the AP gave you 13% more power over all the engine and vehicle speeds you drove it at. This isn't a "dyno" improvement, this is a real driving power gain that factors in driver technique, wind resistance, tire grip, etc. Seems pretty significant to me.

When you get another slip post it up and I can do the same computation again if you want another comparison.

EDIT: I calculated the actual average power (it's bee a VERY long day at work) and you did an average of 250HP in your first run and an average of 282HP in your second run. Again, these numbers are average power put to the ground, so they account for time between shifts, aero drag, grip, intercooler efficiency, temperature differences, etc.
 
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I dont know if i posted it but my race weight in the first run was 3630, the 2nd run i was lighter because i removed the spare tire, floor mats, and any junk in the trunk/glovebox, etc.

Im excited to see what my new corksport intake, turbo inlet pipe, ets tmic and new map brings to the table :)
 
JamesCH said:
Looking at your final trap speeds and 1/4 mile times the nerd in me couldn't help but calculate the normalized power ratio between each run.

Long story short you put an average of 13% more power to the ground with your second run as compared to the first run. Put simply, the AP gave you 13% more power over all the engine and vehicle speeds you drove it at. This isn't a "dyno" improvement, this is a real driving power gain that factors in driver technique, wind resistance, tire grip, etc. Seems pretty significant to me.

When you get another slip post it up and I can do the same computation again if you want another comparison.

EDIT: I calculated the actual average power (it's bee a VERY long day at work) and you did an average of 250HP in your first run and an average of 282HP in your second run. Again, these numbers are average power put to the ground, so they account for time between shifts, aero drag, grip, intercooler efficiency, temperature differences, etc.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is "i made 13% more from 1000' to the 1320' "? notice the 1/8 and 1000' foot traps the non cobb run had faster trap speeds.
 
buttons said:
.......I think the cobb is worth its value, but i dont feel my car is performing how it should. What concerns me the most is my weak 600' mph of 71-72mph. other cars were hitting 75-77mph but still only finishing at 96-99mph.
Click to expand...

Ok, your response tells me you do have some knowledge and just need some confirmation on what you're seeing. IMO, your car may indeed have some tuning issues that can be improved with a specific tune on your setup. A DP will help with the high rpm power as well. Those interval speeds aren't really relavent as they are still VERY dependant on individual vehicle/driver combos where that final mph at 1320ft is the telltale for overall acceleration/power.


I still think the 98mph trap is only possible because i dont have to shift into 5th i can continue accelerating in 4th where as stock speed 6 cant....
Click to expand...

Could be relavent. Maybe a dyno run to show you where the WOT power is will help your shift points, etc.
 
I am the "other Speed 6." Regarding the 40-50 rolls, I started accelerating after I heard the last horn and see him moving so late on my part, which may explain the initial head start.

I was running an AEM CAI and then the TWM SS Stage 2 with BB. My first and last time follow. I almost stalled the first run as I launched at 3200. I launched at ~4500 the other three runs. I left DSC on. I shifted ~6000-6500 each run. My shifts were clean but I missed third gear on the second run and had a slight hesitation into 2nd gear on the last run. I was ~3655 with nothing removed from the car, including the car seat (no child though).

1st Run
60': 2.5021
330': 6.7168
ET @ 594': 9.5085
1/8 ET: 10.1253
1/8 MPH: 72.96
1000' ET: 13.0696
1000' MPH: 83.94
1/4 ET: 15.5336
1/4 MPH: 90.33

2nd Run
60': 1.9883
330': 6.0097
ET @ 594': 8.7588
1/8 ET: 9.3683
1/8 MPH: 73.82
1000' ET: 12.2762
1000' MPH: 85.20
1/4 ET: 14.7354
1/4 MPH: 93.08

3rd Run
60': 1.9721
330': 5.9563
ET @ 594': 8.7562
1/8 ET: 9.3779
1/8 MPH: 72.37
1000' ET: 12.2735
1000' MPH: 85.84
1/4 ET: 14.7117
1/4 MPH: 92.15

Last Run
60': 1.9549
330': 5.9234
ET @ 594': 8.6000
1/8 ET: 9.2245
1/8 MPH: 72.05
1000' ET: 12.0957
1000' MPH: 85.84
1/4 ET: 14.5054
1/4 MPH: 94.02

This was my first time at the track with any car. It was a warm 80+ degree night with the temps at the end in the low 70s. What does this all mean? I don't really care. I like my car and how I ran. Maybe I had better grip, acceleration, and shifts while not much power. I could improve on lots of areas. No more until RMM and Rear Diff.
 
I am the "other Speed 6." Regarding the 40-50 rolls, I started accelerating after I heard the last horn and see him moving so late on my part, which may explain the initial head start.

I was running an AEM CAI and then the TWM SS Stage 2 with BB. My first and last time follow. I almost stalled the first run as I launched at 3200. I launched at ~4500 the other three runs. I left DSC on. I shifted ~6000-6500 each run. My shifts were clean but I missed third gear on the second run and had a slight hesitation into 2nd gear on the last run. I was ~3655 with nothing removed from the car, including the car seat (no child though).

1st Run
60': 2.5021
330': 6.7168
ET @ 594': 9.5085
1/8 ET: 10.1253
1/8 MPH: 72.96
1000' ET: 13.0696
1000' MPH: 83.94
1/4 ET: 15.5336
1/4 MPH: 90.33

2nd Run
60': 1.9883
330': 6.0097
ET @ 594': 8.7588
1/8 ET: 9.3683
1/8 MPH: 73.82
1000' ET: 12.2762
1000' MPH: 85.20
1/4 ET: 14.7354
1/4 MPH: 93.08

3rd Run
60': 1.9721
330': 5.9563
ET @ 594': 8.7562
1/8 ET: 9.3779
1/8 MPH: 72.37
1000' ET: 12.2735
1000' MPH: 85.84
1/4 ET: 14.7117
1/4 MPH: 92.15

Last Run
60': 1.9549
330': 5.9234
ET @ 594': 8.6000
1/8 ET: 9.2245
1/8 MPH: 72.05
1000' ET: 12.0957
1000' MPH: 85.84
1/4 ET: 14.5054
1/4 MPH: 94.02

This was my first time at the track with any car. It was a warm 80+ degree night with the temps at the end in the low 70s. What does this all mean? I don't really care. I like my car and how I ran. Maybe I had better grip, acceleration, and shifts while not much power. I could improve on lots of areas. No more until RMM and Rear Diff.
 
buttons said:
So what you are saying is "i made 13% more from 1000' to the 1320' "? notice the 1/8 and 1000' foot traps the non cobb run had faster trap speeds.
Click to expand...

No, you made 13% more power over the whole run, fizicks doesn't lie!

Energy = Mass * Speed^2 = Average Power * Time

It's the speed^2 that gets you!

Funkster was pulling an average of 270hp on the last run:

mass * speed^2/time = average power

3655lb * (94.02mph)^2 / 14.5054s = 270.8HP (used google to verify the units)
 
thanks for posting your timeslips. it looks like to the 1000' mark our cars would be neck and neck but then i would start to pull away while you shift into 5th. Your launches were better then mine -- though i was launching at 4000 just for a little piece of mind. Most of my 60' were like 1.99-2.05 or so.

I feel like an idiot for not trying different shift points and I know what you mean about the hesitation going into 2nd (flat foot shifting eliminates all that)
 
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