Cobb accessport, safer? more dangerous?

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ms6DiGi

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Mazdaspeed6
My MS6 currently has a MSCAI and a catback exhaust. I am thinking about buying an ETS TMIC, but a have a question. When modding the engine with such parts as mine (CAI, CBE, and TMIC) is it safer to get just bolt them on and let the stock ecu learn the differences, or is it a better idea to get a Cobb AP and use the appropriate maps for it.

I guess what I am getting at is this: If I ran the AP with a map that went along with my current mods would it alter the car to run more safely and efficiently given the changes in airflow, etc? Or does the AP just push the car harder knowing it can handle more given the modifications?

Is the AP ever "necessary" or can the ECU's stock map always learn and handle mods safely?

Thanks.
 
ms6DiGi said:
My MS6 currently has a MSCAI and a catback exhaust. I am thinking about buying an ETS TMIC, but a have a question. When modding the engine with such parts as mine (CAI, CBE, and TMIC) is it safer to get just bolt them on and let the stock ecu learn the differences, or is it a better idea to get a Cobb AP and use the appropriate maps for it.

I guess what I am getting at is this: If I ran the AP with a map that went along with my current mods would it alter the car to run more safely and efficiently given the changes in airflow, etc? Or does the AP just push the car harder knowing it can handle more given the modifications?

Is the AP ever "necessary" or can the ECU's stock map always learn and handle mods safely?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Good questions Im interested as well... I think im gonna dyno my car soon then I will go from there regarding COBB or any other tune option
 
I have been searching this forum for a while, including pretty much all the official Accessport discussion thread. I have learned a lot from these, but not the basic knowledge that I'd like. That whole thread begins with some very specific questions, and gets more complicated as it goes. It would be cool if there was some sort of beginners guide to a lot of this stuff, because I would definitely like to learn more and get more into tuning my car.

I always search far a wide before I ask any questions, and the two posts I made so far have gotten either a one word answer or, like this one, someone telling me to use the search. I hate having to feel hesitant to ask a question because someone is going to treat me like a inconsiderate/stupid person for not searching, when in fact I have.

Just looking for help from some fellow MS6 lovers who are definitely way more educated on their cars than myself. BTW, I hate how the internet can drain all the emotion out of a point you are trying to get across, so to clarify I am in no way trying to sound like a dick or angry. Thanks a lot guys.
 
Take a look at Cobb's site, they break down the basic aspects of the AP on the product page. From there, if you click on the AP maps page, you'll see more detail, as well as some info on how to use the ATR self tuning software.

No, the AP isn't necessary to handle mods, it just makes them more effective.
 
The AP is safe if you monitor your parameters. Even safer if you purchase a custom tune from a reputable tuner. My car ran like crap with the generic maps cobb offers. Bought a custom tune and the car is running so much better. I don't hold my breath everytime I go wot in 3rd gear or higher anymore.

Our ECU is very adaptive compared to some others like the evo / sti. Those cars usually get tuned after every mod. Some people have been running full bolted with big turbos untuned. The best way to determine if your car needs a tune / is running safely is to purchase a dashhawk. This gauge can monitor everything you need and record data logs which you can post here for others to analyze for you. No wiring necessary either. Plugs right in and thats it. The AP can also do the same thing. So picking up a used AP is probably more cost effective in the long run.

People run into trouble with the AP when they load generic maps and beat on the car without watching what their engine is doing. Then they come post here saying their engines are blown.

With your current mods though your ECU should be fine. The AP was the last of the mods listed in my sig.
 
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coyfish said:
People run into trouble with the AP when they load generic maps and beat on the car without watching what their engine is doing. Then they come post here saying their engines are blown.
Click to expand...
Really? I have crap for bandwidth out here on good 'ol USS Nimitz... could somebody link me a few threads where people claim Cobb's stock tunes blew their engines.

Being stuck with Cali91 pisswater I'm not doing anything more than basic intake/exhaust stuff. I've got about 25k on my MS6, and mods are ETS TMIC, Forge, PG FL SRI, 1step plugs... it would not be cool to load the Stage1 +91 map and have my engine smoking a week later. Who has had this happen?
 
tunersteve said:
Take a look at Cobb's site, they break down the basic aspects of the AP on the product page. From there, if you click on the AP maps page, you'll see more detail, as well as some info on how to use the ATR self tuning software.

No, the AP isn't necessary to handle mods, it just makes them more effective.
Click to expand...

They do break it down but if you read the FINE print you need there MODS in order for the tunes to work correctly. Or you need certain mods.

What if you dont fall into this criteria..
 
KrGsMrNKusinagi said:
They do break it down but if you read the FINE print you need there MODS in order for the tunes to work correctly. Or you need certain mods.

What if you dont fall into this criteria..
Click to expand...

No, you don't need any mods to run an AP. You can load a Stage 1 map to a perfectly stock car and see results.

Like others have said, it's best to have some sort of monitoring device or datalog with the AP to make sure things are going as they should, otherwise you might be endangering your motor.
 
Recently we discovered a calculated load limitation in the ecu, that exists with the cobb ap as well. What this limitation basically does is put a "cap" on ecu's calculation of air in the cylinders, which is obviously used to calculate fueling. The level of the "cap" seems to vary from car to car, but it's safe to believe that it exists in every car.

When the your operating in the "cap" region for calculated load, the ecu is basically blind to any additional air that may be getting into the engine, be it from increased boost, more mods, or even just colder weather. When that happens, the afr's lean out and could potentially put you at risk.

I know one guy who was hitting the load cap with just an intake. I know another guy who needed a gt3076 before he hit the cap level. So, again, it varies from car to car.

The guy who hits the cap with just an intake (realgib on msf), had previously blown his motor, and is 99% convinced this cap issue caused it.

The AP doesn't cause this cap issue, but it also doesn't fix it. I believe the cp-e flashes do fix the issue, but i haven't tested it out on my own yet. They say that it does though, and i believe it from some of the numbers they've seen tuned with their flash solutions + sb, namely my buddy sean (socks on msf).

Long story short, if you start modding, you need to monitor your ish and make sure your safe. AP or not, if your modded, you need to monitor lol.


If anyone wants a link to the discovery thread about the calc load cap, pm me. It's a good read.
 
djuosnteisn said:
Recently we discovered a calculated load limitation in the ecu, that exists with the cobb ap as well. What this limitation basically does is put a "cap" on ecu's calculation of air in the cylinders, which is obviously used to calculate fueling. The level of the "cap" seems to vary from car to car, but it's safe to believe that it exists in every car.

When the your operating in the "cap" region for calculated load, the ecu is basically blind to any additional air that may be getting into the engine, be it from increased boost, more mods, or even just colder weather. When that happens, the afr's lean out and could potentially put you at risk.

I know one guy who was hitting the load cap with just an intake. I know another guy who needed a gt3076 before he hit the cap level. So, again, it varies from car to car.

The guy who hits the cap with just an intake (realgib on msf), had previously blown his motor, and is 99% convinced this cap issue caused it.

The AP doesn't cause this cap issue, but it also doesn't fix it. I believe the cp-e flashes do fix the issue, but i haven't tested it out on my own yet. They say that it does though, and i believe it from some of the numbers they've seen tuned with their flash solutions + sb, namely my buddy sean (socks on msf).

Long story short, if you start modding, you need to monitor your ish and make sure your safe. AP or not, if your modded, you need to monitor lol.


If anyone wants a link to the discovery thread about the calc load cap, pm me. It's a good read.
Click to expand...


Yeah my car was hitting "load based" fuel cut. It was shutting hte motor off (like fuel cut) and bucking hard but my pump was holding pressure fine. My ltft's were WAY off.
 
SamNavy said:
Really? I have crap for bandwidth out here on good 'ol USS Nimitz... could somebody link me a few threads where people claim Cobb's stock tunes blew their engines.

Being stuck with Cali91 pisswater I'm not doing anything more than basic intake/exhaust stuff. I've got about 25k on my MS6, and mods are ETS TMIC, Forge, PG FL SRI, 1step plugs... it would not be cool to load the Stage1 +91 map and have my engine smoking a week later. Who has had this happen?
Click to expand...

By smoking do you mean popping? You can load the stage 1 map. Just drive it for 20 miles or so before you beat on it. Ease into the boost and watch your knock / A/F / boost. Then if that looks okay go for it and do some data logs. See if everything is in check. You can post them on here if you need help analyzing them.
 
Load cut isn't the same thing as a load cap.

Load cut is when the ecu calculates higher loads than those in the cut or throttle close values. Similar to boost cut.

Load CAP is more like a limit to how much load the ecu can calculate.

So say your load cut value was above the load cap value, your car would essentially never cut, lol.
 
djuosnteisn said:
Load cut isn't the same thing as a load cap.

Load cut is when the ecu calculates higher loads than those in the cut or throttle close values. Similar to boost cut.

Load CAP is more like a limit to how much load the ecu can calculate.

So say your load cut value was above the load cap value, your car would essentially never cut, lol.
Click to expand...

However... you would still hit the cap by which the ECU cannot recognize and account for any additional molecules of oxygen entering the cylinder. It is at the point where your cut value is higher than the intangible cap that you risk blowing the engine. (Just to clarify)
 
Right, and that load level varies from car to car, so it's super important to make sure your operating your vehicle below that level IMO.

I know one guy right now who is well within the load clip value (18psiguy on msf, or something like that), and he's putting down quite a bit of power, but he knows to keep a damn close eye on his afr's at all times.

It's risky, and not my cup of tea personally (hence my switch from ap to sb + flash combo). When i dynoed 386awhp, i was so far into the clip region i had no clue wtf was going on with my car. It was extremely dangerous, and i would see my afr fluctuate nearly a point with 30 degree weather changes.
 
djuosnteisn said:
Recently we discovered a calculated load limitation in the ecu, that exists with the cobb ap as well. What this limitation basically does is put a "cap" on ecu's calculation of air in the cylinders, which is obviously used to calculate fueling. The level of the "cap" seems to vary from car to car, but it's safe to believe that it exists in every car.

When the your operating in the "cap" region for calculated load, the ecu is basically blind to any additional air that may be getting into the engine, be it from increased boost, more mods, or even just colder weather. When that happens, the afr's lean out and could potentially put you at risk.

I know one guy who was hitting the load cap with just an intake. I know another guy who needed a gt3076 before he hit the cap level. So, again, it varies from car to car.

The guy who hits the cap with just an intake (realgib on msf), had previously blown his motor, and is 99% convinced this cap issue caused it.

The AP doesn't cause this cap issue, but it also doesn't fix it. I believe the cp-e flashes do fix the issue, but i haven't tested it out on my own yet. They say that it does though, and i believe it from some of the numbers they've seen tuned with their flash solutions + sb, namely my buddy sean (socks on msf).

Long story short, if you start modding, you need to monitor your ish and make sure your safe. AP or not, if your modded, you need to monitor lol.


If anyone wants a link to the discovery thread about the calc load cap, pm me. It's a good read.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in the read. I'm wondering if this load cap is also something that is set by the OEM flashes and adjusted with different ECU calibrations/firmware revisions. I know the MS3 crowd has a bigger issue with that (if we're talking about them on MSF).

Either way, there's still a lot of levels of the ECU that haven't been peeled back yet.
 
Definitely ALOT of layers to the ecu lol. Quite the onion.


I'll pm you the thread link.

I believe this calc load limit played a role in the "lack of power" reflash from a while back. And we haven't been able to pin it to any specific ecu firmware version or not, but haven't really tried all that hard honestly.
 
I think we'd all like to read that...I know my car is doing some knocking stock and I'd like to get a handle on why before I do anything else with it.
 
I would definitley be interested in this as well. Anything like this that could jeopordize the engine, I need to know about. I will pm you for the link as well.
 
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