MazdaSpeed 3 TCS/DSC COMPLETELY off.... possibly....

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kessragnell

Member
Ok.. RIGHT AS YOU TURN ON your rockin MazdaSpeed 3, you will notice that little yellow light on the dash of that car "spinning out" (this is obviously the tcs light as you all know). Anyway, immeditely when you turn on the car and you see this icon lit, hit your DSC off button.

You'll notice both lights are now permanently lit.

This process needs to be timed properly, if you hit your DSC button, and then the DSC LIGHT turns off (NOT your "out of control car" light) hit your DSC button AGAIN.

Again, this will make both lights stay permanently lit, and I PERSONALLY have noticed a bit of a difference in performance from even the standard turning off of the DSC.

Please give your input everyone as to if you feel a difference.
 
more performance as in what exactly? you'll be able to get the same amount of boost regardless of what DSC/TC config you have

you can also just hold the dsc button as you start the car
 
Old news...but good news nonetheless.

I've been doing this since I bought the car, about a year ago. It is my start-up ritual. I don't like ECU intervention in my driving. My tires have suffered a bit more because of it, however!

Also, do be careful on off-throttle steering. The rear WILL come around on you much more easily. As well, your braking will be fully manual, and you will have no brake force distribution, it seems.

Still, when drag racing or when you are confident in your abilities and the road conditions, it is a neat thing to do.
 
I ran 2 tests the other day with my DashHawk capturing the data. The first run was done after starting the car while holding the TCS button down thus turning off both TCS and DSC.

The second run was done with the normal setting.

1. First Run - DSC/TCS Off - 1st gear 6.82 PSI / 31.1 MPH - 2nd Gear 13.92PSI - 46MPH Peak Boost and MPH on the capture.

2. Second RUn - DSC/TCS On - 1st 11.60 PSI / 31.7 MPH - 2nd Gear 16.68PSI - 43.5 MPH - Peak Boost and MPH on the capture.

Now I know you will say that I mixed up the 2 tests, but I swear I didn't. However, even though I know I didn't I'm doubting myself and will re-run the tests tomorrow to see for sure. Maybe I did but I really don't think so. However, if I did then your theory applies.
 
How does that Dashhawk work...? Are you using it as a boost gauge?
What is the install procedure? How much was it?
Do you recommend it?
 
The DashHawk plugs into your OBDII connector. It shows you any PID your car can pickup as well as CEL's and such. You can even clear your CEL's with it.

You can have up to like 6 active windows I think. I use 3 (half screen left for Boost the other half split in 2 for Wideband, Temp). I also have it setup as a shift light using the alert system which flashed the screen for the alerts.

You can also capture data and record it to play it back on your PC with the software provided. In capture mode the default is RPM, Boost, MPH, Load, Temp, Vehicle Speed. It just captures so you can make any changes.

Personally I love it and I highly recommend it. The cost was around $300. From MSD. http://www.dashhawk.com/
 
Ok did a couple more tests today. The outcome was as follows.

Run 1 - DSC/TSC Off - 8.70 Boost / 27.3 MPH / 5435 RPM -- 15.95 / 46 / 5593 RPM

Run 2 - DSC/TSC ON - 12.91 Boost / 27.3 MPH / 5627 RPM -- 15.95 / 46.6 / 5691 RPM

I'm not sure if I got the same first gear take off in Run 1 as I did in Run 2. Run 2 got a good 1st gear takeoff spinning the tires and turning on/activating TSC due to wheel spin.

Now due to inability to get the exact same runs you can take this information for what it is. Just a comparison using the DSC/TCS hack. To me it seems that on both of my tests you actually got a better boost in 1st than you did without TCS and DSC. But overall it seems that using the hack (for lack of a better term) does not really get you any gains and hurts your handling of the car.

My car has MS CAI, Epoxy Mount and I took it in for the updated flash with the latest Voluntary Recall.
 
So would you recommend getting the dashhawk instead of a bunch of gauges...? How accurate is the boost gauge? Is there a vacuum gauge/readout too...?
 
This is quite perplexing. As a habit now I turn the DSC/TCS off as I start the car, pretty much like how I turned off the traction control on my '00 GT Mustang which had the same feature. It is routine at this point, unless there is water on the ground, which in Vegas is seldom.

I get an interesting puff of smoke (like running extra rich) sometimes if I gun it off the line in first and second...when I DO have the DSC/TSC functional as normal. This is also true when I turn the DSC off while the engine is running, per hitting the button.

But, when I turn both off using the start-up "mod" (for lack of a better term), I get no such smoke when I gun it. Hmmmm...

We need some heavy investigation as to what this "mod" does. I am curious as heck as to what it does. It also affects my turn-in on tight 90 degree turns, and affects the car far more when I accelerate in a turn, especially sweepers. I really wonder what it is all about. For now, I continue to turn it off as habit, and I enjoy the (perceived or real...dunno) extra power.
 
AutoXRacer said:
So would you recommend getting the dashhawk instead of a bunch of gauges...? How accurate is the boost gauge? Is there a vacuum gauge/readout too...?
Click to expand...


I would recommend the DashHawk if you want more information about your car than a few gauges can give you. I also have a Boost and Oil Press Gauge (OP gauge ran and has power but need to find a solution for the sender) but they are more for show as they just look cool (burnout)

The DashHawk will provide you any information that your car computer gets. The boost is captured and correct for Barametric (SP?) pressure as well. So the accuracy should be better than any gauge as it is corrected. The boost shows both Boost and Vac as well.

You can also use it as a wideband as you can monitor both senser 1 and 2 on your exhaust. So technically you can use it to help you tune (though I think it shows you a raw number and you need to convert it to a tunable one - but maybe not, I'm not a tuner so don't know for sure).

Basically any PID you want to monitor, this device should do it. You can also set warnings for all PID's. It also comes with a nice program that will allow you to graph any data you capture as well as being able to do estimated 60's, HP and such.
 
fourthmeal said:
This is quite perplexing. As a habit now I turn the DSC/TCS off as I start the car, pretty much like how I turned off the traction control on my '00 GT Mustang which had the same feature. It is routine at this point, unless there is water on the ground, which in Vegas is seldom.

I get an interesting puff of smoke (like running extra rich) sometimes if I gun it off the line in first and second...when I DO have the DSC/TSC functional as normal. This is also true when I turn the DSC off while the engine is running, per hitting the button.

But, when I turn both off using the start-up "mod" (for lack of a better term), I get no such smoke when I gun it. Hmmmm...

We need some heavy investigation as to what this "mod" does. I am curious as heck as to what it does. It also affects my turn-in on tight 90 degree turns, and affects the car far more when I accelerate in a turn, especially sweepers. I really wonder what it is all about. For now, I continue to turn it off as habit, and I enjoy the (perceived or real...dunno) extra power.
Click to expand...

One thing I did notice is that my Boost Gauge in 1st today showed a max of 5psi in 1st on a pretty hard pull, then like 12-13 in second. Both of these were with TCS/DSC ON.

Because the DashHawk gets its information from sensors like the cars ECU, then I wonder if the ECU sees a higer boost than is actually present and causes the fuel cut that some people have been having with an aftermarket BPV?

I'm going to find a nice place to do some tests this weekend and see what the results are. The DashHawk will allow you to capture like 5 or 6 runs so I will grab what I can and will post the results.
 
I really think the start up "mod" helps a lot. Probably was happening is that you get more boost in 1st-2nd with tcs/dsc on, but as soon the ecu sense wheel spin it tries to control it with throttle closing etc. With the tcs/dsc off you get less boost, but no ecu intervention, so it feels faster. Maybe is just me, but I think it pulls to 6k easier without ecu control.
 
sooo.. this dashhawk.. you say it will read anytihng the car can through the OBd2 port.. soooo if i am runnign the ATP fuel cut defender...tricks the car into allowing more boost, will it show it through this? Because this would be a WAYYY better deal than dealing with installing all of these guages and bull--

(boom02)
 
northmiler89 said:
sooo.. this dashhawk.. you say it will read anytihng the car can through the OBd2 port.. soooo if i am runnign the ATP fuel cut defender...tricks the car into allowing more boost, will it show it through this? Because this would be a WAYYY better deal than dealing with installing all of these guages and bull--

(boom02)
Click to expand...

Thats exactly why I'm thinking about it... Beats routing all those wires and tubes into the cabin... Though, I really like seeing those starting sequences on those electric gauges... :)

I think I will go with the more expensive, but easier way... :)
Thanks guys!!!
 
AutoXRacer said:
Thats exactly why I'm thinking about it... Beats routing all those wires and tubes into the cabin... Though, I really like seeing those starting sequences on those electric gauges... :)

I think I will go with the more expensive, but easier way... :)
Thanks guys!!!
Click to expand...

It took me 5 mins to run the wires clean and install my dashhawk which would have been about a 3 hr difference had I installed boost, a/f ratio gauges and oil temp. The unit itself is bullet proof and what I mean by that is it gives an extremely accurate readout because it's reading from the main computer itself.

The 0-60MPH, 1/4 time, Fuel Load ect are cool features too.
 
When I read about the DSC hack I have been using it everyday for the last 3 months like clockwork, never ever started without using it. Last two days I've been going without and I must say, I do believe the car is pulling harder; however, caveat, it feels like late in 1st gear, around 4500, things get 'mushy' up front, I can swear it feels like the tires are breaking tread to me, however I am not getting the 'spin' indicator light and am not slowing nor is there any hop as I glide into 2nd around 5800rpm. Can anyone else vouch for this mushy/tires in hot tar kind of feeling, and is this the DSC kicking in to control slip but there isn't ACTUAL slip because the 'skid' light indicator isn't on??
 
yes, i can definitely attest to this. with dsc/tc on, my car feels positively anemic sometimes. it's getting too smart for it's own good sometimes...^^;
 
BluMicaR said:
When I read about the DSC hack I have been using it everyday for the last 3 months like clockwork, never ever started without using it. Last two days I've been going without and I must say, I do believe the car is pulling harder; however, caveat, it feels like late in 1st gear, around 4500, things get 'mushy' up front, I can swear it feels like the tires are breaking tread to me, however I am not getting the 'spin' indicator light and am not slowing nor is there any hop as I glide into 2nd around 5800rpm. Can anyone else vouch for this mushy/tires in hot tar kind of feeling, and is this the DSC kicking in to control slip but there isn't ACTUAL slip because the 'skid' light indicator isn't on??
Click to expand...

My evidence points to the DSC/TCS "mod" making the front break free of traction far too easily, and as a result you have less forward acceleration, but much, much more spin. With the lights on, and the system fully disabled, the spinning goes unchecked of course, and just wastes forward power. But, observers of my car have seen 1st, 2nd, and partial 3rd gear ROAST the tires (without squeal!) when the mod is performed. I hate calling this a mod, but you guys know what I mean.

With the systems fully enabled, this spinning is in check, and there is more forward progress but because the car is limiting power to the capabilities of the tires vs. the road.

I have a feeling that if I could slap on some slicks or other tires with great traction, MORE power would be had from disabling the systems.
 
i did this and i cant seem to break traction 1st gear, but im not launching either, or shifting from 1 to 2nd gear. no loss of traction?
 
^If you have turned DSC/TSC off you are probably breaking tread and don't even know it. I noticed that unlike 'stock' when you 'break tread' and the wheels hop, with the two OFF your wheels just spin when you break tread. If you are accelerating like a grandma you aren't breaking it...

Hold your clutch in and get RPMs to 2900, let the clutch out evenly but with decisiveness - you'll get the hang if you don't have it after 2-3 tries. Then when it's almost out begin applying gas until you're WOT the second the clutch 'catch' point is past. Rev up to 5800 and don't let off the gas but a hair, push the clutch in, slam that puppy into second and bring out the clutch. Rev to 5800 and repeat into third. If you're doing this right you'll spin tires in third gear's beginning, you've conserved your pressure in the turbo by not letting the gas up much if at all, and your first three gears passed fluidly like one big gear pulling you upwards of around 70mph in about 5.5-6 seconds. The wheels don't hop with TSC/DSC off so at first you won't be able to tell they're spinning, just there is SO much power to them they break tread like Courtney Love falls down with her legs out. WAY. TOO. EASY. (headbang)
 
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